Simple White Oak Bowl

[Baxter Smith]

Turned this a few days ago. It came from the next 8 inches of timber as the one I posted earlier. (The one of dubious design!)

Since I have only turned two oak bowls I have a couple of questions.:)
Is roughing the outside of dry oak considerably tougher than roughing the inside? My gouge either wants to skate across the surface or stop the lathe. It also seems to dull incredibly fast. One pass and it needs to be resharpened. The inside is easier in comparison.(slow but doable) I have been using a 5/8 inch Irish grind gouge for all my bowl work. Picked up a traditional grind gouge and that seemed to work a little better.(shaping the outside) Is it technique, horsepower, tool choice, all three, or is that just the way dry white oak is?

The oak bowl I did earlier has already darkened considerably compared to this one. An improvement I think. I removed enough wood from top and bottom of the timber to get rid of almost all checking. I think I still tend to be stuck on using the whole piece of wood, rather than cutting it down to an appropriate size. I think the bowl would look proportionally better if it was about an inch or so shorter. Or maybe that just means my shape was wrong!:)

Comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

White Oak 7w x 5h x 3/8 Finished with Antique Oil

[John Keeton]

Baxter, I love the wood in this one. Beautiful grain.

On proportions, I have been struggling with that myself, and it seems that when I get one that "looks right" the height is about 1/3 the diameter. I guess it goes back to that "rule of thirds" thing!! But, I notice that you are on #23, so you have about 15 bowls on me, so don't trust what I say!:o

I have not done any white oak, but on the two red oak I did get dulling quickly, but didn't seem to have much trouble with getting decent cuts. Not sure on that one??!?:confused:

[David E Keller]

Nice job. I agree with your assessment about the height of the bowl, but I like the way it is now.

Oak is a pretty tough wood to turn when dry because it's hard and open-grained. Some woods are just tougher to turn than others, and you've done a nice job with this one.

[Dennis Ford]

You are learning fast. Dry oak is tough and hard, you did a good job on it. The outside should not be any harder than the inside once the piece is round so there might have been an issue with tool presentation. I agree with your thoughts on height, it takes a mental leap to waste wood getting to a good shape.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Baxter - nice job on centering the blank! Nice concentric rings when you look into the bowl.

Very pretty wood and a real nice job on finishing!

Oak is a hard wood - especially when it is dry! The only reason I think the inside turned easier than the outside is when you turn the inside of the bowl - you are rubbing the bevel and actually pushing the gouge into the wood. In this position the gouge will ride the curve of the bowl and centrifugal force will help keep the gouge in place. When you turn the outside - again you rub the bevel but the centrifugal force is pushing you away and makes it easier to slip off the outside curve. Just takes practice - and sharp tools!

Any time you find yourself pushing hard into the wood just to get a cut - stop. Take a moment and go sharpen your gouge. If you just did - and you still have a hard time getting a cut - change the angle the gouge is attempting to cut the wood. You will find a sweet spot!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Really nice bowl Baxter. Love the wood.

[Mike Zipparo]

Nice bowl and agree on the symmetry. Extra care in aligning the blank pays off in the end.

Some things I try to think about when considering proportions. The base = 1/3 of rim diameter, max. I have started to make smaller bases on artistic pieces and like the look. Also consider more of a sweeping curve. Imagine removing more material from the middle part of the height. Both of these can provide more "lift" to the piece.

As for turning difficulty, I have found that after you solve the tool presentation problem, faster RPM = easier and cleaner cut.

My 2 cents.
_____________________
Mike

[charlie knighton]

very nice...

[Roland Martin]

Nice bowl, nice centering, certainly a nice piece of wood. I also like the way you treated the lip, seems to have a nice flow.

[Rob Cunningham]

Nice bowl Baxter. I like the shape and the way you formed the rim.

[Chris Stolicky]

I like the shape of the bowl. Yes, oak is a very hard wood to cut, and sharp tools are very necessary.

I also like how you were able to balance out the grain.

[steven carter]

Baxter,

Nice looking oak bowl. I like the rim treatment. I've done several oak bowls, and found them to dull tools quicker than softer woods. I don't have a problem with the height of your bowl, I think it looks just fine. It seems to me that if every bowl had the same hight to width ratio, it would be a dull bowl world. Variety isn't the spice of life, variety is life.

Steve

[Ron Bontz]

What method did you use on this bowl? All my white oak blanks, large ones, are cracking despite anchor seal, under a tarp out of the sun.:(

[Baxter Smith]

Baxter, I love the wood in this one. Beautiful grain.

On proportions, I have been struggling with that myself, and it seems that when I get one that "looks right" the height is about 1/3 the diameter. I guess it goes back to that "rule of thirds" thing!! But, I notice that you are on #23, so you have about 15 bowls on me, so don't trust what I say!

Thanks John. You have shown there isn't much connection between the number of bowls done and the ability to deal with proportion!:) The number 23 is finished though most of those are in bags. I have an equal number of roughouts in bags waiting to be finished.:eek: Think I'm having fun with this?:D


Nice job. I agree with your assessment about the height of the bowl, but I like the way it is now.

Oak is a pretty tough wood to turn when dry because it's hard and open-grained. Some woods are just tougher to turn than others, and you've done a nice job with this one.
Thanks David. It has its plusses, but as usual I am wondering what if...


You are learning fast. Dry oak is tough and hard, you did a good job on it. The outside should not be any harder than the inside once the piece is round so there might have been an issue with tool presentation. I agree with your thoughts on height, it takes a mental leap to waste wood getting to a good shape.
Thanks Dennis. I am not sure why the outside has seemed like such a problem on both oak bowls. The cut that works on the green bowls without a problem just doesn't cut it on this wood. Taking a nice block of dry oak then removing 1/3 of it just to make it "fit" seems like taking a 20 inch wide board to make a 12 inch raised panel. Maybe not that bad but...:) I even have that problem with green wood that was going to rot if I hadn't gotten started with bowls!;)


Baxter - nice job on centering the blank! Nice concentric rings when you look into the bowl.

Very pretty wood and a real nice job on finishing!

Oak is a hard wood - especially when it is dry! The only reason I think the inside turned easier than the outside is when you turn the inside of the bowl - you are rubbing the bevel and actually pushing the gouge into the wood. In this position the gouge will ride the curve of the bowl and centrifugal force will help keep the gouge in place. When you turn the outside - again you rub the bevel but the centrifugal force is pushing you away and makes it easier to slip off the outside curve. Just takes practice - and sharp tools!

Any time you find yourself pushing hard into the wood just to get a cut - stop. Take a moment and go sharpen your gouge. If you just did - and you still have a hard time getting a cut - change the angle the gouge is attempting to cut the wood. You will find a sweet spot!

Thanks Steve. I think you nailed exactly why the inside is easier but I definitely am still looking for that sweet spot!;)


Really nice bowl Baxter. Love the wood.
Thanks Bernie. Appreciate it.

Nice bowl and agree on the symmetry. Extra care in aligning the blank pays off in the end.

Some things I try to think about when considering proportions. The base = 1/3 of rim diameter, max. I have started to make smaller bases on artistic pieces and like the look. Also consider more of a sweeping curve. Imagine removing more material from the middle part of the height. Both of these can provide more "lift" to the piece.

As for turning difficulty, I have found that after you solve the tool presentation problem, faster RPM = easier and cleaner cut.

My 2 cents.
_____________________
Mike
Thanks Mike, I actually considered removing more of the middle portion after getting the curve that it has now. But it was such a pain to get it smooth to that point I said "good enough". I often end up regretting those thoughts!


very nice...
Thanks Charlie.

Nice bowl, nice centering, certainly a nice piece of wood. I also like the way you treated the lip, seems to have a nice flow.
Thanks Roland. My brother in law is from Lewiston. He and my sister both graduated from Bates in 79.


Nice bowl Baxter. I like the shape and the way you formed the rim.
Thank you Rob.


I like the shape of the bowl. Yes, oak is a very hard wood to cut, and sharp tools are very necessary.

I also like how you were able to balance out the grain.
Thank you Chris. It is hard when dry!


Baxter,

Nice looking oak bowl. I like the rim treatment. I've done several oak bowls, and found them to dull tools quicker than softer woods. I don't have a problem with the height of your bowl, I think it looks just fine. It seems to me that if every bowl had the same hight to width ratio, it would be a dull bowl world. Variety isn't the spice of life, variety is life.

Steve
Thanks Steven, I understand and see the height to width point of view, but also think that if the form doesn't fit the piece of wood you have, perhaps you should have chosen a diffferent form.


What method did you use on this bowl? All my white oak blanks, large ones, are cracking despite anchor seal, under a tarp out of the sun.:(
Ron, The method of drying is as follows.;)
After the tree was felled, it laid at a landing with other white oak logs for more than a year. When it couldn't be sold for veneer(growth rings to wide apart I believe) I bought them all because I was looking for timbers for my house. Since this was a 16 foot timber and I needed a 14, it became a 2 foot cutoff. It stayed outside in the sun and rain for the next couple of years being used for blocking for other timbers I was working on. When I finished my garage, it went into my upstairs shop and spent 20+ years under my assembly table. When I moved my shop into an adjacent pole barn last winter, it went into the unheated end. Then to my lathe a couple of weeks ago. Not an answer you can use but that was it. :)
This was actually from the middle of the 2' cutoff. There was about an inch of wood removed on the bottom, inch an a half on top, and about 10 inches of endgrain from this piece. It also started as all heartwood with no pith. Wish I could offer you something better!

Thanks to all for your feedback! I think my next oak piece will be red to see if there is a difference, while I continue to look for that sweet spot!