Design disagreement

[Bob Glenn]

The kids want to me to build them a TV stand for their new flat screen. They found a picture of what they want, and I like the lines and proportion of the piece and have agreed to do it. The piece is a bit long, it looks to be seven feet , so I asked them how long they wanted it. Well they sent me dimensions of 6 feet long, 30 inches high, and 22 inches deep.

Maybe I just being picky, but IMO the depth is way too deep and will destroy the feeling of the piece, changing it from something of grace, to something thats looks like a clunky side table rather than the TV stand I envisioned. I don't want to waste my time and money on something that will end up looking like it was made in junior high shop class.

So should I:

1. Build it like they want it?

2. Fudge a little on their dimensions to make it look better?

3. Try to talk them out of their dimensions unless they have a definite need for such a deep piece of furniture?

4. Just shut up and keep on rowing?

Has anyone else had similar problems when building for someone else, or am I just being overly sensitive?

[Prashun Patel]

Explain that to them. If they feel super strongly about it, and they really like it, then isn't that what really matters? I think your piece can look professional and great even if you don't like the proportions completely.

I made a jewelery box for my 6-yr old daughter that was shellacked curly maple and cherry. She wanted it painted white. I did it. She's happy. I'm happy.

[Bob Glenn]

Explain that to them. If they feel super strongly about it, and they really like it, then isn't that what really matters? I think your piece can look professional and great even if you don't like the proportions completely.

I made a jewelery box for my 6-yr old daughter that was shellacked curly maple and cherry. She wanted it painted white. I did it. She's happy. I'm happy.

This just reminded me, the same kid has asked me to put a different finish on every piece I've made them. Milk paint on the set of stacked Shaker boxes, and a different color on their Windsor chair.

[Matt Meiser]

I built a 24" deep EC unit and I should have made it 2" deeper. It might look better shallower, but depending on what A/V components they want to put in it, they might not fit.

[Eric DeSilva]

+1 on what Matt said. That 22" may be critical to fitting components they own, which means going it the way you want may result in something that is useless to them. As a stereo freak, I've spent many years with equipment racks that don't satisfy me entirely, but the purchase of which was driven by the need to accommodate particular (and large) electronics.

I'd explain, find out what dimensions really are critical to them and why, and see if you can do a redesign that accommodates their needs while satisfying your aesthetic sensibilities...

[mike holden]

Bob,
Welcome to the world of made-to-order woodworking.

You can explain why you think something is a bad idea, but, in the end - the customer is always right. (even when he is wrong - grin)

Ask why the dimension needs to be that, and offer any alternatives, then build to order.

Mike

[Bob Glenn]

Thanks, guys, all good advice. I have a concern they want it 22 inches deep due to electronic equipment, and I will explore that area with them.

Rather than challenge their desire on depth, I think I will ask them what led to their decision of 22 inches.

Thanks for the help. Bob

[Jamie Buxton]

Thanks, guys, all good advice. I have a concern they want it 22 inches deep due to electronic equipment, and I will explore that area with them.

Rather than challenge their desire on depth, I think I will ask them what led to their decision of 22 inches.

Thanks for the help. Bob

Televisions are now nice and thin. They can stand on shapely thin furniture, or hang from the wall. The issue is what to do with A/V components, which may be much deeper than the TV. Probably your kids need the 22" depth for only a couple of components, not for the whole 6 foot width of the stand. I like to make a cabinet for the A/V equipment which is maybe 24x24x24 or so. It can be a coffee table, or an end table, or the like. The TV can go on another piece of furniture which is much slimmer. This two-piece solution is generally better-looking, takes up less floor space, and is more versatile.

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks, guys, all good advice. I have a concern they want it 22 inches deep due to electronic equipment, and I will explore that area with them.

Rather than challenge their desire on depth, I think I will ask them what led to their decision of 22 inches.

Thanks for the help. Bob

I agree that the 22" depth is for the surround system, DVD palyer etc. Here's an idea for the electronics. Put the components in a drawer shelf like this:http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=120297&d=1244642872 Use an over travel slide with the most over travel you can get so the wiring connecting everything is accessible without pulling everything out of the cabinet/

[david kramer]

Bob,

If it were me I'd model the piece in sketchup* and get a feel for how it looks. If I was still unsure, I'd make a full-size model out of cardboard. I find that nothing beats looking at the actual dimensions of a piece.

David

*I'm pretty quick with sketchup. If you aren't familiar with it, then maybe go straight to the cardboard.

[Steven Green]

IMHO just keep rowing. I've had a couple of bad experinences with building it my way.

[Scott Climb]

Bob, I have this project on my "Gold List" (meaning it's higher priority to my wife than items on my silver and bronze lists). In other words, it's coming up soon!

I agree with you. I want this piece to be much shallower in depth, like 18" or 20" if I could. But, I can't find a way to make a shallower cabinet to accommodate my components and the cables that sick off the back of them. one idea I have is to drop the back of the components downward. So they slide in sort of like a magazine rack. I haven't worked out the details of this idea, so I don't know if it's realistic or not. It's definitely a space waster but it might allow these deep components to fit into a shallow cabinet. Anyway, I just thought it's an idea you might like to explore with them. Good luck.

[Richard Dragin]

I find most people don't know from dimensions and can't visualize how large something will be. A cardboard mock up might help them see more clearly.

If the extra depth is to fit components I would be more concerned with the inside dimension rather than the outer.

[bill collier]

I had this problem with someone, let's call her my wife just to give a name, who wanted a shelf 24" deep. Holding an 18" ruler out from the wall, I showed her how that was too deep and 24" was much worse. We ultimately came to a more reasonable depth of 10".

[Richard Dragin]

Weren't you worried that she'd figure out that what you have been telling her was 8 inches is really 3 inches?

[Brian Novotny]

what your kids want, but I'd go to 36"deep to offset the height and not to make a 6 ft =72 in. long piece look akwardly skinny.......my grandparents who had kids of age in the 40' and 50's had about what you described that was the IN TV stand for the first television buyer, and I can still remember that piece with it's gold leaf insets and front cabinet doors. It was no mistake that those 6ftx30"x36" bulky TV Stands resembled htye television at the time. Now remove the doors with empty space and the piece doesn't appear as skinny, as there will be a depth of vision or "aperture" created by the speakers giving the piece a visual puzzle that will trick the mind into thinking that the piece is deeper, but to do this well you will also need to contrast the colors of the speakers and the wood, which will give an even greater depth of vision.......Now, to make the depth even skinnier you could have no back on the stand, hence creating a depth almost impossible to calculate by eye. For a piece like this I would leave the outer edges trimmed, not decorative routed edges because that makes the eye think it should be "fatter" when in which you want this to look similar to the qualities of the TV.......slim, sheek, "light", modern, and with that should come a modern design. I have a good Idea in the design to also offset 72 inches and in turn make the display sleek. I"ll draw you up a modern plan that your kids will love if you want and if you use it I just ask that you donate $25 to my favorite charity which for that amount will cure blindness from severe cataracs in one person, hence allowing him to watch a tv or 2 if he wants. And about the kids, they want there dad to make it something that they will enjoy, something no one else has, but is as great as any of the best custom woodwork. Kids will be the first ones to tell dad that he screwed up, even if they were their plans, because by drawing plans they're showing an interest in your hobby, which they want to learn. Kids can be cleaver at how they try to get dad to interact with them, I think they would rather have something different, but explained EXACTLY why it's different......this is how I learned as a kid, and it seems like your's are pretty high up there as far as becoming brilliant, or not getting the attention and becoming briliant drop outs (OK, that's MY story, but.........) One other thing that should be taken into account is the size of the TV, color, and what you need to store above or below, and what items must be stored in a certain space.....ie. you want a nice fit for your center amp.

Do people buy books about this sort of thing? No joke, I'm really just a woodturner with an eye for design and since I was a TV film major I was forced to look deeply at the colors of dress vs. wall paint ......psychological attributes of contrast and harmony........at the very top where the tv is you don't want it to extend past the TV itself or the viewer will be distracted.............that's why film is 16:1 so that you can barely take in the whole screen, let alone other factors that will protrude out of the Tv itself. If you're spending $$$$$ on a system, then every part of that system should harminate with the others IMO. For a basic look, look at the TV.

[Brodie Brickey]

All those components create heat. Usually whenever we (woodworkers) build a cabinet, we put a solid back on it. Consider mesh or a fan system to address the heat generated by the Cable box, receiver, DVD player and all that other fun stuff. While its holding stereo equipment, its really a large computer desk when all is said and done. Addressing the heat output could be very important.