Apple Unveils the iDud

[John Coloccia]

Anyone plan on buying this thing? I like my iPhone and the couple of Macs I have, especially my laptop, but that iPad thing strikes me as completely useless, especially when I can get a tablet PC that is many times more capable. If it ran OSX, it would be different, but this thing is a dud, IMHO.

[Robert Parrish]

Did you watch the Apple Keynote presentation or read any of the reviews? If so you might have a different opinion.

[Scott Shepherd]

but this thing is a dud, IMHO.

That was the same thing said about the iphone and the ipod. I wouldn't bet money against Steve Jobs and his ideas/marketing. Most people in recent years that have bet against him and his ideas have lost and lost big.

Give it some time and let the 2nd Generation come out. You've got to start somewhere.

[Jerome Hanby]

That was the same thing said about the iphone and the ipod.

And I have neither one of those. They aren't the best or most versatile gadgets in their class and they lock you into one company's architecture. This new thing will be the same way. If you like the look and feel of the things then wallow in them. Saying they are the best or brightest (which you didn't say, but many of the reviewers do) is just silly.

If they were the best at what they do or represented some new innovative idea, then their names would have become verbs. You don't ipod music, you don't iphone someone to talk, but you do tivo your favorite shows and simonize your couch.

[Bob Borzelleri]

And I have neither one of those. They aren't the best or most versatile gadgets in their class and they lock you into one company's architecture. This new thing will be the same way. If you like the look and feel of the things then wallow in them. Saying they are the best or brightest (which you didn't say, but many of the reviewers do) is just silly.

If they were the best at what they do or represented some new innovative idea, then their names would have become verbs. You don't ipod music, you don't iphone someone to talk, but you do tivo your favorite shows and simonize your couch.

Maybe if you did have one of them, you might have a different opinion. I went through three generations of Treos and a Blackberry before I bought an iPhone. The capability of the iPhone compared to the limitations of the other smart phones made the transition like coming out of the dark ages.

What's silly is passing judgment on products that you don't own.:rolleyes:

[Eric DeSilva]

Did you watch the Apple Keynote presentation or read any of the reviews? If so you might have a different opinion.

Having watched the keynote and being an avid tech blog reader, I'm not sure John's opinion is different than the non-Mosspuppet pundits. The iPad seems to be taking a lot of crap for the name, and getting a big "meh" from the crowds on functionality.

Face it, it is a scaled up iPhone without the phone or camera. As a competitor to eBook readers, it suffers from being an LCD where eyestrain (compared to real eInk) is a factor. I can see it as a PMP for people who spend a lot of time on airplanes, but at $499, that is pretty steep. If it had a video camera, I could see it as a convenient video phone. But it doesn't have a video camera. Oh yeah, it runs iWork. That should make the three people in the US who use iWork very happy.

On the plus side, the multitouch interface is intriguing, as is the deal they struck with AT&T. I think there will be some surprising apps flowing out of the multitouch, but until I see them, I'm not rushing out to buy one.

When the iPhone got announced, I wanted one. I even liked Apple's iTV or whatever the heck it was. This one doesn't excite me and doesn't seem to be a game changer.

[Eric DeSilva]

That was the same thing said about the iphone and the ipod.

I seem to recall the iPhone and the iPod getting pretty phenomenal reviews right out of the box.

I love my iPhone, even if the functionality is beginning to look old and the closed system beginning to annoy me. I loved my iPods--I've owned a Gen I, four Nanos, and a Touch. Just because Steve Jobs made it doesn't mean that everyone who is underwhelmed lacks vision. Maybe he just made a marketing mistake. (This, incidentially, being the guy who brought you the rocking commercial successes that are the Apple Newton, the NeXT, and Apple TV).

[Scott Shepherd]

And I have neither one of those. They aren't the best or most versatile gadgets in their class and they lock you into one company's architecture. This new thing will be the same way. If you like the look and feel of the things then wallow in them. Saying they are the best or brightest (which you didn't say, but many of the reviewers do) is just silly.

If they were the best at what they do or represented some new innovative idea, then their names would have become verbs. You don't ipod music, you don't iphone someone to talk, but you do tivo your favorite shows and simonize your couch.


Clearly I must have missed something. 12,000,000,000 downloads from itunes. They all went somewhere. Ipods and Iphones. Also, what's the architecture I'm locked into with the iphone? I can open Microsoft Word Documents, Excel documents, I can edit them, save them, email them. I can check my email from any pop3 or imap account. That's about as cross platform as you can ask for.

The iphone is the market leader and that's facts, not opinions. Blackberry operated in that arena with all the carriers for years. The iphone comes out with one carrier that's got spotty coverage and it's beating blackberry in every category.

So I'm not sure how any of that translates into a fad or fad like product. If all their devices we are horrible as some of you say, the company would be bankrupt by now.

[Pat Germain]

I think one of the reasons the iPhone and iTouch were so well received is the display is very high quality. I recently heard a review about the Nook E-Reader. The reviewer wasn't impressed and said people would get a better experience reading an E-book on their iPhones; primarily because the display was so much better. So, I would expect this new product has a killer display. Of course, I'd have to see it to be sure.

Some people think the Kindle is stupid. But people who own them love them. I think people will embrace this new Apple product no matter how many others poo-poo it. :p

[Matt Sollars]

There will always be people downplaying a product, as there have been with every product released. To call the thing ''magical'' is a bit of a stretch, but I do feel like it meets a niche market. I hate the name, but who cares if it meets your needs. And of course, as with everything, they have to leave some stuff out for revision#2 of this thing. Multitasking would be huge. Camera would be nice. Smaller bezel would look better, in my opinion.
Do I need it....heavens no. Are there people out there that this will be perfect for.....sure. Will people love it because it has an apple emblem on it....of course. Will others hate it for the same reason.....you bet.

As with anything, before raving about it......use it......and before crapping all over it.......use it. Make your mind up after using the product....not hearing about other people using it.

Matt

[Keith Outten]

I think that the Ipad is going to be a very hot product with a waiting list to get one for the first year. I also think that it is a notebook and laptop killer, so does the President of ASUS.
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[Eric DeSilva]

I think one of the reasons the iPhone and iTouch were so well received is the display is very high quality. I recently heard a review about the Nook E-Reader. The reviewer wasn't impressed and said people would get a better experience reading an E-book on their iPhones

There has been a huge investment into researching eInk, and there is a reason why the Kindle and the Nook use eInk and not an LCD. I believe most of the research suggests that from a "eBook" perspective, the readability of eInk and the battery life associated with eInk trump the lack of color and delay in refresh. If you have spent a lot of time with an LCD and a eInk based reader, I think there is no question you would grab the eInk device if you want to read plain text.

Of course, if you want to read color magazine, cookbook, or comic, eInk sucks.

[Eric DeSilva]

I think that the Ipad is going to be a very hot product with a waiting list to get one for the first year. I also think that it is a notebook and laptop killer, so does the President of ASUS.
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For work computing, would you give up your laptop for a device that: (i) has a touch keyboard that even Jobs messed up on; (ii) has an OS based on a mobile phone; and (iii) doesn't support the Office suite of products? I wouldn't.

For an eReader, would you pay a premium for higher priced eBooks, no eInk readability, and lousy battery life (as compared to eInk based readers)? Although, admittedly, you get color and magazines and comics.

For a web browser, would you pay a premium over a netbook for a device that doesn't even support Flash?

I just don't see how this device improves my life. Or even fits into it.

[Todd Franks]

I work in hi-tech, but am not really a techie kind of guy. I don't own any of the 'i' products. I haven't looked at the iPad and I'm sure I'll never own one. Time will tell if Apple keeps up their winning streak with this product.

I have to say this product name isn't as "catchy" as say the iPod or iPhone. The iPad sounds more like a Kimberly-Clark product rather than an Apple product.:D

[glenn bradley]

As of yet, the masses have not reacted well to the pad format. Will this be the one? Doubt it; could be wrong. Maybe the time, technology and user awareness is finally right?

[Josh Reet]

I always find it so hilarious how worked up people get over apple's products. The iPad is just a thing. It will be really useful for some people and useless for others. You know, like a circular saw. We all know people who will never touch a circular saw in their lives, but I bet none of them run around telling us how stupid saws are.

But I guess getting all amped up about it is pretty fun too.

The stupidly named iPad is a product that will work great for me. I'm buying one. Apple's iphone works for me as well, I've owned two. The ipod touch is useless for me, I won't ever own one. I haven't used a "classic" ipod since I got the iphone. My little windows netbook gets used all the time but is a nightmare as far as user interface is concerned. My laptop is great, but is still a pain to haul out if I just want to check email on the couch or surf the web at the local pub over a beer.

But if your life isn't like mine, perhaps the iPad won't be for you. That's fine, plenty of other great products out there.

[James Stokes]

all I know and really care about is that I have made a lot of money by betting on Apple. They have not let me down yet.

[Dave Johnson29]

The Google phone is just getting started. Open source, hmmm, no royalties or closed technology. hmmmm.

Google shares $534
Apple shares $199

[Josh Reet]

Google shares $534
Apple shares $199

Their P/E ratio is virtually the exact same though. Something to think about.

[Scott Shepherd]

Both have done well, I wouldn't bet against either....

[Josh Reet]

Both have done well, I wouldn't bet against either....

I wouldn't either.

[Tim Morton]

Lots of chatter for something noone really knows anythign about yet.:D

[Mitchell Andrus]

Lots of chatter for something noone really knows anythign about yet.:D

Tim's right. Doorstop or Swiss Army knife.... we'll know soon.

Did anyone think the microwave was so great at it's roll-out? Fancy way to cook a potato.

We've seen tablets and touch screens and tablets with touch screens before. Success will be earned when they sell these things to the non-geeks. Seeing a quick video in the middle of a New York Times article will be cool.... but wait, I get that now on my laptop, smart phone and secret decoder ring.

If it cooks more than just potatoes, maybe they'll have something special.
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[Mark Engel]

What's wrong with potatoes???

[Matt Sollars]

For work computing, would you give up your laptop for a device that: (i) has a touch keyboard that even Jobs messed up on; (ii) has an OS based on a mobile phone; and (iii) doesn't support the Office suite of products? I wouldn't.

For an eReader, would you pay a premium for higher priced eBooks, no eInk readability, and lousy battery life (as compared to eInk based readers)? Although, admittedly, you get color and magazines and comics.

For a web browser, would you pay a premium over a netbook for a device that doesn't even support Flash?

I just don't see how this device improves my life. Or even fits into it.

I see the reasoning individually comparing them. But it IS an ereader, IS a web browser, and CAN be used for work computing. Has an optional keyboard for computing and iWork as a software package. Apps are unlimited. Even with the additional cost of the Keyboard dock.....you'd be hard pressed to find another piece of hardware capable of the same performance (work, web, e-reading) as the ipad will be, at all three.
Again, the thing is far from perfect, but it will be useful and I believe future sales will show that to be true.

[Tim Morton]

For work computing, would you give up your laptop for a device that: (i) has a touch keyboard that even Jobs messed up on; (ii) has an OS based on a mobile phone; and (iii) doesn't support the Office suite of products? I wouldn't.

For an eReader, would you pay a premium for higher priced eBooks, no eInk readability, and lousy battery life (as compared to eInk based readers)? Although, admittedly, you get color and magazines and comics.

For a web browser, would you pay a premium over a netbook for a device that doesn't even support Flash?

I just don't see how this device improves my life. Or even fits into it.

Because it does not fit into every mans life than does that make it less of a product?

I don't know enough about it to decide how it will fit into my life...but i can see myself using it to:
1.surf the web and deal with all my email uses.
2. becoming the brain to my home theater
3. manage and store and view all my photos
4. gps while traveling morphing into a laptop computer on the road.
5. could be a network storage device at work
6. could be the coolest home telephone ever
7. i could see a ton of uses for it making sales calls on the road

and i have spent 2 minutes sitting here thinking about it, and am by far NOT apples intended market.....thats one device replacing how many? i agree its not going to be the best at everything....but because its so flexible, i can seeing it being apple biggest seller EVER....and fast.

The name is not apples best work...but maybe iTab was taken:D

pass the koolaid...one for every room of the house.:cool:

[Keith Outten]

For work computing, would you give up your laptop for a device that: (i) has a touch keyboard that even Jobs messed up on; (ii) has an OS based on a mobile phone; and (iii) doesn't support the Office suite of products? I wouldn't.

For an eReader, would you pay a premium for higher priced eBooks, no eInk readability, and lousy battery life (as compared to eInk based readers)? Although, admittedly, you get color and magazines and comics.

For a web browser, would you pay a premium over a netbook for a device that doesn't even support Flash?

I just don't see how this device improves my life. Or even fits into it.

I am old fashioned and still use a full size PC for work computing, just can't use a laptop except for very short tasks or when I travel. The ipad could take the place of my laptop which it is to big to carry around the job.

I just recently got a notebook to use for email when I roam around at work and need to get to my email.
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[Mitchell Andrus]

thats one device replacing how many?

Problem is...nobody buys something like this to replace anything else let alone everything else.
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[Josh Reet]

Problem is...nobody buys something like this to replace anything else let alone everything else.
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That is absolutely true for me. An ipad will just be a "better tool for the job" for me in various situations. Not a replacement for anything.

But then again, I dont expect it to be. Not in my life anyway. Others might use it differently.

[Mitchell Andrus]

One thing nobody has noticed because we haven't gotten our hands on one...... Lay your laptop's screen flat on the desk in front of you and you'll IMMEDIATELY see that this is not a serious work tool. If I want to see the lights over my head, I'll just tilt my head back, thanks. Put it on a stand and you can't come close to using the keyless keyboard (which hogs 30% of the screen by the way). Plug in a keyboard, power supply, printer... you're back to a laptop configuration... with cords. Go Bluetooth you run the battery down in just a few hours.

It's not $400.00... it's closer to $1,000.00 with G3 and AT&T service for a year, required for ebook status unless you download your books to a computer and zap it over.

I can't see lugging this thing around in my pocket or on my belt. Purse? It's maybe 5-7 times the size of an iphone or itouch and doesn't seem to do much more.

Toy. Cool toy, but just a toy. That's not a bad thing, but it is what it is.
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[Dan Friedrichs]

I really like Tim's idea of using it as a GPS. I don't trust the GPS to come up with a route that I'll like, but would LOVE to have a decent-sized Google Map that I can drag around and zoom in on, etc.

[John Coloccia]

Wow...thread took off. LOL.

My thinking:

The iPhone was great for me because it bundled up my phone and my laptop, two things I have to carry for business purposes, into a tiny little device that fits in my pocket, at least when all I need is my e-mail and a couple other things. Add in all the great apps that are available, and we have a winner.

The iPad doesn't replace anything. It's something I need in addition to everything else. That's the last thing I want. I was hoping this would bridge the gap between the iPhone (which is a bit too small) and a laptop (which is too big and doesn't make calls). Instead, it's a big iPod.

I think Apple's a bit off the mark here. That doesn't mean it won't sell well. Heck, the ShamWow sells well. It certainly leaves a lot on the table, though, and seems to me like it's a bit unfocused, maybe even a technical demonstrator. There's nothing wrong with that and it's cool, but I don't see it as the future.

[Josh Reet]

It's not $400.00... it's closer to $1,000.00 with G3 and AT&T service for a year, required for ebook status unless you download your books to a computer and zap it over.

I'm not buying any G3. I have a cell phone. Hell, I have an iPhone. $500 is what I'll pay unless I decide to get the USB dongle or the nifty looking "stand" case thing.

As for requiring g3 for the ebook function, I'm pretty sure you are wrong. You just need a wi-fi connection. Same as with iTunes or the app store and the iPod touch. It is possible that there are people who have no wifi and don't want to fork out the $30 for a wireless router or wander to the nearest coffee shop. But I doubt this product is aimed at them.

[Eric DeSilva]

1.surf the web and deal with all my email uses.

Maybe. But there aren't a lot of people willing to pay $500 to surf the web and read their email on the can. Most email freaks out there already have an iPhone/BB/Nexus One/smartphone. The market for those wanting to spend $500 to read email wirelessly on a 10" screen seems... low. Especially since the bloody thing doesn't support flash.


2. becoming the brain to my home theater

How? With an add on IR interface and specialized app? That is a pretty limited market too--I can assure you, having uilt a 10" touchscreen remote for my home theater 10 years ago from an airpanel, Cinemar software and a slink-e. The touchscreen is the easy part. The rest of it is hard. And I don't see the native capabilities in the iPad to do it.


3. manage and store and view all my photos

64GB--where this maxes out--isn't exactly super storage. There are a lot more cost effective solutions for storing things--for less than the minimal iPad you can buy a 2 disk RAID NAS with a pair of commercial ES 1TB drives. And, what comes with the iPad isn't exactly great photo management software unless you are using iPhoto somewhere else.


4. gps while traveling morphing into a laptop computer on the road.

Like I said before, it isn't a serious laptop if it doesn't have a keyboard. The inventor couldn't type on it without making mistakes. It runs a mobile OS, not OSX, Linux or Windows. It runs iWork, which has nearly zero market share. It is not a serious work device.

And, if I read the specs right, you only get GPS with the 3G model. That means you are shelling out $630 minimum, and at least $180 yr for minimal data service.


5. could be a network storage device at work

You want a network storage device, buy a ReadyNAS with a pair of commercial 1TB drives for $440 or so. That is *less* than a 16GB iPad. Storage it is not.


6. could be the coolest home telephone ever

Aside from the part where you don't seem to be able to buy a voice plan for it. So yeah, maybe run VOIP over your WiFi. That is a frickin' expensive phone. And, do you really want to hold that up against your ear?


7. i could see a ton of uses for it making sales calls on the road

Again, except for the part where it doesn't actually have a voice plan so that won't work. Unless you want to do VOIP on a mobile network. Which is pretty sketchy.

Go ahead and tell yourself you are replacing multiple devices, but if you buy this, are you really going to throw away your laptop, your cell phone, your home phone, your TV remote controls, your external drives, your GPS...

I think Apple generally builds decent hardware. I like my Mac Book Pro. I like my iPhone. I like my iPod. But this thing? Sure, the Apple hardcore will buy it just because of the logo, but I don't think it is a game changer.

The one interesting thing about this puppy--aside from the interesting data plans--is the multitouch interface. I could see how some interesting applications might be built on that. But they would have to be pretty awesome to choke down that price.

[Eric DeSilva]

I am old fashioned and still use a full size PC for work computing

Me too. I hate laptop keyboards and just don't see how I could deal with a touchscreen keyboard for anything other than an emergency. But my travel choices seem to be carry iPhone, which lets me deal with short emergency emails, or carry iPhone and laptop, which lets me deal with larger exercises and is necessary for longer trips. I just can't see this replacing the laptop in that scenario, because the keyboard and full range of office applications is the reason I carry the thing. The iPad doesn't replace those.



I just recently got a notebook to use for email when I roam around at work and need to get to my email.
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Have you looked at the smaller netbooks? The Nokia is pretty stunning. Seems to me it packs a bigger punch than the iPad. I'm vaguely hoping that the data options for the iPad will drift over to other netbooks like that one. In any event, I'd seriously urge people to try other options.

But, maybe I'm out of my head and the touchscreen works great for typing. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the iPhone corrects errors. But the demo Jobs performed did not inspire confidence.

[Bryan Morgan]

To quote the guy on the funny Onion video: "I'll buy anything as long as its shiny and made by Apple"

I wonder if Jobs gets tax breaks for the religion he created....:p

[Michael Schwartz]

Look back a few years at the original iPod with its grey scale screen, and simple list of features. There were gadgets on the market on the time that could probably do far more for less as well. The Ipad is still in its infancy but I think there are some interesting concepts behind it.

I use a home built windows XP machine at my shop for running cad/cam software, as well as an old dell for running my Shopbot. My laptop is an older 12" Macbook which has survived quite a bit of use and abuse but its still going strong.

I use an XP desktop for most of my productivity needs with cad/cam software. My Mac laptop mostly gets used at home, but I do take it to work for secure email/web browsing etc...

When I am at home I do use my laptop for some productivity software such as open office, inscape, iweb, sketchup, and a Windows XP virtual machine via Parallels for cad/cam software.

Other than that when I am either at my shop where I have a desktop, or on the road I very seldom use my laptop for anything other than web browsing, email, and other basic stuff.

I will very likely purchase an iPad and just use my laptop at home, since I think the iPad would cover my needs for the most part while at work, and on the road. I could care less about a camera, and some of the features people say it lacks.

Obviously, and even Steve Jobs stated that this device is not intended to be, or replace a laptop. For some people of course, a laptop is by far the way to go, and while I would likely leave mine home most of the time, I would never consider not having a laptop available.

I think the iPad will be very nice for many people but I can see how it might not be a good fit for others.

I am pretty much sold as well on the ability to display and show pictures on the iPad which I think would be very nice for marketing. Trying to show photos on a laptop can be a royal pain.

[Steve knight]

with my iphone and a computer at home and work I found I have no need for a laptop. though paying a game on the ipad would be nicer then on my phone it would be a paint to carry around. I mean I could see using it while watching a movie instead of my iphone. but that's about it. it is too big to use as a ebook in bead. it would take two hands and if you drop it when you drift off it could really hurt :D

[Chris Kennedy]

I doubt this is going to be a notebook/laptop killer. Running a mobile OS severely limits its capabilities. I was looking at the work software that I run, which is considerably more than a browser and a word processor, and I bet it would eat a mobile OS.

My guess is that iPads and the netbooks are going to slug it out. How that will end, I don't know. I cannot imagine doing a serious amount of work without a dedicated keyboard, at which point, it is starting to become a netbook without the more robust operating system.

There may come a time when I opt for a smartphone of some sort, but unless the future generations are significantly expanded, I doubt I will be looking at these. On the other hand, it will be interesting to see if this beast finally breaks tablets into the mainstream.

Cheers,

Chris

[Mitchell Andrus]

As for requiring g3 for the ebook function, I'm pretty sure you are wrong. You just need a wi-fi connection.

Wi-Fi yes, that will eliminate the need for the 3G... If you don't have wireless you'll need a 3G account or spend more money for a router to read a book or download a game on a what is essentially a keyboardless laptop.
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[Mitchell Andrus]

To quote the guy on the funny Onion video: "I'll buy anything as long as its shiny and made by Apple"



Saturday Night Live writers are probably working on a commercial as we speak.

"You can compose email while holding onto it right in your hands. Watch a movie in your lap or read a book while holding onto it. Read the newspaper while riding on a bus right in your hands. Listen to music through ear buds while it slides off of your lap and onto the floor. You can get finger smudges on it while showing endless photos of you kids right in your friend's hands. It does everything you already have a device for but for much more money. Battery life, 20 minutes."
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This is pretty much the video of Jobs on Youtube. The writers can go home this week.
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[Orion Henderson]

Well after spending some time on Apple's website I see some good and bad stuff.

This would be excellent at doing many of the computer things I do with my kids. My not quite 2 year old pulls out my Iphone, opens it up, and then proceeds to go to the pictures file. She opens up photos and goes through them one by one. All unsupervised. Occasionally she calls or texts someone, but not too often. My not quite 5 year old uses my slightly more powerful than a netbook laptop and watches train videos on YouTube. We do this every day, most days. Generally he does it on his own while I put the other one to bed. My laptop has a rudimentary touch screen and most of the time he uses it to pick his next video-the ipad would do that much much better. The Ipad would work very well for both kids. Shoot, this means I would have to get 2 if we were to get them (not going to happen anytime soon!!). I could see each having their own in a year or two and using them on long drives to play games, read books, draw, etc.

The limitations I can see just from Apple's website and the couple reviews I have read are: NO MULTI TASKING. This is no big deal to me on the iphone-though it would be nice-but in a borderline laptop it would be a severe limitation.

No ports: There is not a single USB port. Not 1. You need a special adapter to connect anything. Seeing as the adapter is proprietary I am sure you get the privilege of paying Appleland prices for it. It does not appear that you can even sync an iphone or ipod to the ipad. How in the world is this possible? If I am trying to use this thing as a light laptop I need to sync it with my other devices easily and since neither the iphone nor Ipods sync wireless....

It appears you must sync this to a different computer and sync your mobile device to that same computer. So it requires a third device-computer-to get your smartphone and Ipad on the same page.

4:3 screen shape: We have all gotten used to watching movies and TV on the 16:9 widescreen format-yet this device has a 4:3 screen. I have had laptops with the 16:6 shape-in fact I think even my little laptop has a 16:6 shape. I guess the argument is that 4:3 is better for webpages and reading. Maybe it is but this is also sold as a way to watch movies and TV.

So long and short of it: Looks like something to wait on. I bet the next gen of both Iphone and pad will sync wirelessly. Multitasking will come to both devices at the same time...the Android Smartphones already have both features available. Apple can't afford to wait. It seems to me that Apple rushed this product to get it out and the 1st generation has some very serious limitations. Gen2 should address those and cost less. I think the 4:3 screen ratio is here to stay and there may be good reasons for it. Curious what Google comes up with to compete with this. Their OS is extremely well suited to this type of device, but Apple's patents on multi-touch screens may limit them.

[Jason Roehl]

I HATE proprietary adapters. I think that is just dumb.

I had 5 Nokia phones over the course of 13+ years (as a contractor, I'm kind of hard on them, but some were feature upgrades, too). They were excellent phones, but limited. I even had a Palm device at one time, too--also limited. All of them made it difficult to QUICKLY enter a contact's name and number. Last year, I got an iPhone 3G, and it's a whole new ballgame. It's incredibly useful to me. Add in the jailbreaking I did, and it's even more useful (you have to be a bit of a geek to do this with confidence). It's clear to me that Apple has throttled the iPhone back, but I suspect the biggest reason is battery life. Myself, I wouldn't care if it were twice as heavy if that meant longer battery usage.

However, it, like my previous 2 or so Nokias, has a proprietary connector. Which means that if I want an extra sync cable, it's big bucks or online order. Apple, PICK A MINI-USB AND USE IT!! Even Nokia finally saw the light (my wife's current Nokia phone uses a mini-USB).

As for the iPad, I think only time will tell. It doesn't look useful to me--just an overgrown iPhone, without the phone, but that doesn't mean that many won't find it useful--or a must-have gadget. 32GB seems pretty limited considering that's available on the iPhone, and this is more geared toward video. Also, I'm always leery of large expanses of unprotected, portable glass. I've already seen someone else with a broken iPhone screen (not expensive or difficult to replace, but most people don't know that). I'm more looking forward to future iterations of the iPhone, and even now, when my wife's cell contract is up this year, I will probably pass my iPhone to her and upgrade to the 3GS (or hold out for the next generation if there are rumors in the wind).

[Wayne Watling]

The first thing I wont be doing is expecting it to function as my main computer.
In its cheapest form it has wireless connection to the internet via a wireless router, I wont be purchasing it to connect via 3G.

This is going to great for the workshop although primarily it will be the interface to my homes Insteon automation system. This touch screen is much cheaper than the dedicated propriety screens offered by the home automation manufacturers and its the perfect size.

I design my woodworking project using sketchup, it will be nice to view my saved drawings while working in the shop as well as browse to various sites like Finewoodworking for a video or to read this forum etc.
I've been reluctant to drag a PC into the shop because of space and the dust issue so this little device will work perfectly for all things woodworking. I like the look of the iPad and its feature set, other book reading devices look like toys when you see them side by side.

One other use is online radio which I'll listen too while woodworking.

[Michael Schwartz]

I don't think Apple made the ipad to please tech bloggers, or gadget columnists for magazines. I don't read what they have to say most of the time either and until I get to play with one in a store and use one for myself I won't make judgements.

I remember reading forum threads, blogs, and tech columns which all had a unanimous negative sentiment regarding Apples release of the original iPod. People called that iDud, Iflop, you name it, and I remember how my first ipod felt so primitive compared to what they offer now. It even seemed basic for the time as well but it caught on.

And clearly the iPad is not designed for people who rely on a laptop, and apple is in that markets as well. It is not designed to be a "Tablet PC or netbook either"

Perhaps if the multi touch interface works well they may produce a touch screen version of the Macbook, or MacBook Pro which would very much fill the role of a "Tablet PC" Apple has also been working on handwriting recognition for years now behind the scenes.

I don't think they are looking to replace there entire product line with a $499.00 device, and certainly I think allot of the multi touch features will make there way up to there laptops at some point.

I expect we will see much further functionality with future releases of the software, and of course there will be version 2.0 sometime in the next 6 months to a year. Who knows what apple might be withholding or saving as well since the release is still 3 months out, and there is still further marketing to be done.

I guess this device has been over hyped quite a bit and perhaps Apple had too much to live up to with it, but for what its intended to be I think its pretty attractive. I do understand many people might not have a use for it, just as I have no intention of buying a smart phone. My 4 year old Motorola razor works fine for me.

As I said in a previous post I will strongly consider buying an iPad. I think its quite interesting, and I know I would have a use for it. I don't think the price is too bad either assuming it doesn't really cost more than the original 10gb ipod with a greyscale display. I still have mine, I think its somewhere in the bottom of my sock drawer.

I think the bottom line is don't get an iPad if you want a laptop, netbook, "tablet PC", and don't expect it to be a real computer. Apple knows this, and they obviously didn't design this as a one size fits all solution. After all they still sell, smart phones, laptops, and desktop computers.

I would like to have one though for displaying photos to clients, email/web browsing, and some light work with numbers (Spreadsheet), and for watching youtube videos, viewing maps, etc.. I don't really need the full power of my laptop at work since I have a desktop anyway, but at least at work an iPad would let me do what I use my laptop for, alongside my XP machine.

For now I am not listening to the tech bloggers, and gadget columnists. I don't buy gadgets, and I can't tell you how often I disagree with the tech columnists on stuff.

I am strongly considering purchasing an Ipad because It has features that I find useful. However if you don't have a use for it, don't get one. I think allot of the sentiment on it boils down to weather or not a person has a need for it. This product is still only about 48 hours old, with three months to release so there is plenty of time for revisions before, or after so its too early to jump to conclusions, and in the end if you don't need one, you don't have to get one.

[Josh Reet]

Well said Michael.

As I posted previously. I personally see a very clear use for this device in my life. But I can easily see why others would not.

As for the lack of features on the first ipod, don't forget how crippled and overpriced the first generation iphone seemed. No app store, no picture messaging, no video, no "cut/paste" and so on. But not only did they sell a pile of them, it also laid the groundwork for a device that millions now own. Including a number of people on this thread.

So maybe this ipad will only sell to a small group of people like me who say "I know exactly what I will do with this thing" and the 2nd or 3rd gen will be the one that really is the game changer.

I still find it amusing how worked up people get over Jobs/Apple and this thread has plenty of fine examples of that. But then again, I guess "vanilla" people don't make much of a splash in the world. And listening to Apple die-hards talk about Bill Gates is just as amusing. Me? I respect both men and wonder what the world would be like had they not done the work they have.

[Horton Brasses]

To clarify my previous post: I do like this thing-but it needs to do a few more things for me to go and buy it. I don't think the price is bad-strikes me as reasonable. To what Josh said above-Bill Gates and to a lesser extent Steve Jobs have done extraordinary things for the entire world. DOS and then Windows completely changed the world, and still are. Apple has changed music for the better-along with publishing and the graphic arts among other things. Both men have done more for democracy then virtually any world leader alive or dead-the founding fathers may be the only exceptions, or at least the only ones I can think of. How many of us owe our livelihoods to the internet? While my company existed before the wonderful wonderful web, where would we be without it? Small business is resurgent everywhere-despite that the politicians and media says-in large part because the internet has opened doors that were once closed. I can't even begin to comprehend what the internet has done for education. For the cost of a cheap computer and a connection anyone anywhere can learn anything if they want to. Think about how revolutionary that is.

[Michael Schwartz]

Perhaps it does have a ways to go for many potential users but you can say that about almost all electronic devices due to the rapid advancement of technology. Its pretty much a universal rule that if you wait, you will get more for your money. I think most of us have quite a museum of long forgotten computers, printers, software, and devices, that haven't seen use in a decade, but we just cant throw them out because of what they cost.

Some will be quick to adopt the Ipad since it will be useful to them, others will wait and buy version 2.0 or 3.0 and many will choose not to buy one, simply because they have no need for it, and that is fine.

Just like buying a pair of ski boots, one brand or line might be the perfect fit for somebody, but the other guy might not be able to fit into any of the manufacturers boots at all. I know when I bought my last pair the first shop I went to had to send me to there competition to get the right fit since none of there boots would work, but the guy knew his competitor had a line that would.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I've been reluctant to drag a PC into the shop because of space and the dust issue so this little device will work perfectly for all things woodworking.

That's the first reasonable real-world solution/use I've heard. A dust-proof satellite to a main computer... Thanks for that.

'course, it's a lot cheaper to print something on paper, and easier to pencil notes on it.... but still, someone's thinking.
.

[Todd Franks]

Saturday Night Live writers are probably working on a commercial as we speak.


Do a search on YouTube for "MadTV iPad". Before it went off the air MadTV did a commercial spoof for a new product called "iPad" long before Apple made its product launch announcement.

[Eric DeSilva]

I still find it amusing how worked up people get over Jobs/Apple and this thread has plenty of fine examples of that.

Josh, the sentiment runs both ways. I judge technical devices on their merits, not the CEO of the company they were released by. I don't understand the Church of Jobs--reaction to criticism about this device is just short of "he's a visionary, so if you don't think this device is great, you lack vision."

You can pretty much assume that if Apple produces it, it will be pretty, stylish, and fairly glitch free--certainly above average for computer reliability. I don't think there is any question the iPad meets those criteria, which means it is a good device.

I also understand fully that this device will answer the needs of some people. But it is not--as others have said, an eBook killer or laptop killer. I know several people who will get one, and each have their own, very good, very valid reasons. None of the reasons I've heard is particularly extensible to the general population, however, which leads me to think this is not a category killer or a game changer. The one question mark in my mind is whether multitouch can produce applications that are must haves. I have some doubts on that.

As for all the comments about "use one first," I had a 10" wireless touchscreen years and years ago. I've done a lot of the things with it that people are talking about here, including building custom interfaces, reading books, surfing the web, and reading email. Sure, Apple UI for the iPad is probably better than what I had, but you know what? It wasn't the UI that was the problem--it was the size; too big to be omnipresent, to small to be really useful.

In some ways I feel about the iPad the way I felt about the iPhone 3GS launch. Completely underwhelmed. I did not feel that way about the iPod launch. Or the iPhone launch. Or, embarrassingly enough, the AppleTV launch. The 3GS was really sort of incremental change and there was nothing in the launch that was visionary. Same thing here. The imagination of tech bloggers pre-launch was better than what Apple came up with--front and rear cameras for portable video conferencing, facial recogition to adapt to different users automatically. Sadly, no camera so neither of those scenarios work. Oddly, the one thing that would have been really easy for Apple to do that would have killed off the comments from the pundits about the lack of a real OS and multitasking would have been to build a really good thin client terminal that was bullet proof and gave you remote touchscreen access to your network-connected OSX desktop or laptop. The fact that it wasn't there and it is such an obvious application leads me to believe there is a problem with creating one.

Bottom line, I think they will sell. Certainly they will sell to the die hard fan base. Will they achieve the kind of ubiquity of the iPhone or iPod? Not likely. Maybe 2.0 or the "Pro" will get closer, but there are some big changes that would need to happen--real OS with multitasking, HDMI out, video camera, etc, etc.

[Jason Roehl]

Do a search on YouTube for "MadTV iPad". Before it went off the air MadTV did a commercial spoof for a new product called "iPad" long before Apple made its product launch announcement.

I saw this video the other day--I'm sure it will test the boundaries of good taste on this forum. :eek: I did laugh, though--loud and long.

[Michael Schwartz]

If Apple had announced this as simply a revision to the ipod touch line, nobody would have even noticed or cared much, but they sure succeeded in getting people to talk about it.

[Mitchell Andrus]

That video is a gem.
.

[Bryan Morgan]

If Apple had announced this as simply a revision to the ipod touch line, nobody would have even noticed or cared much, but they sure succeeded in getting people to talk about it.

Thats the true genius of Apple: marketing. They are masters of generating a cult hype around their stuff. As products, they are alright, but not nearly as great as they or their cult following make them out to be.

[Tim Morton]

Thats the true genius of Apple: marketing. They are masters of generating a cult hype around their stuff. As products, they are alright, but not nearly as great as they or their cult following make them out to be.

Yeah true...the ipod or the iphone never really caught on with the general public, just a couple of over over hyped gimmicks that fooled the kool aid drinkers. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Tim Morton]

4:3 screen shape: We have all gotten used to watching movies and TV on the 16:9 widescreen format-yet this device has a 4:3 screen. I have had laptops with the 16:6 shape-in fact I think even my little laptop has a 16:6 shape. I guess the argument is that 4:3 is better for webpages and reading. Maybe it is but this is also sold as a way to watch movies and TV.




so you are saying you don't think widesceeen movies will play on it with black bars top and bottom? You do see the need for them to make it the shape they did for more screen size for other things like say a keyboard?
*sigh*...

sorry i just get annoyed sometimes when people who have no idea what they are talking about since they have never even held somethign like this in there hand start sharing there wisdom as to how they would do it better...go out and manufacture a tablet and then come back and show us how yours is so much better than than this one.:mad::mad:

maybe i need coffee....;)

[Tim Morton]

Maybe the mods need to ban "apple conversations" along with politics and religion.:D

[Mitchell Andrus]

Thats the true genius of Apple: marketing. They are masters of generating a cult hype around their stuff. As products, they are alright, but not nearly as great as they or their cult following make them out to be.

Even good products need a little market hype to stay around long enough to evolve into great ideas and products. Who ever thought we'd need a computer on every desk or a phone in our pockets. The first cell phones truly su*ked.

Will the ipad be successful? Define success. The pet rock was wildly successful. So was the walkman. The laser disc... not so much but it did lead to something better.

I'll give Jobs and company their fair share of credit, but I think even they know that they're chasing a niche market, and only for about a year or so.
.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Maybe the mods need to ban "apple conversations" along with politics and religion.:D

...and Saw Stop.

Wait... I didn't mean it. I LOVE the Saw Stop. I'm gonna get me one, I swear.
.

[Greg Peterson]

Ultimately the IPad will be a game changer. It will require a killer app however. And future generations will need to step up functionality (phone, camera...).

Apple is as equally adept at marketing as they are in tightly controlling the design of their products. Of course their products are not without issue, but many of the Apple crowd seem to take such criticism personally.

The boss just bought a Macbook Air. After applying an OS update and rebooting I couldn't get the machine to join the WiFi network. It could see it just fine. Try as I might it failed to join. Finally, after rebooting again, it joined just fine. And I thought only PC's needed this treatment. Even my IPod nano requires a restore on occasion.

I will admit that generally Mac's are more reliable than their PC counterparts. But considering the virtually finite and defined confines of their operating environment, this degree of reliability should be expected.

The IPad will launch a fleet of competitors. I think it will be a big hit.

[Pat Germain]

Fox News has a slideshow of failed Apple products. Some I had forgotten. Some I had never heard of:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010/01/29/rotten-apples-history-apple-misses?slide=1

[Tim Morton]

Fox News has a slideshow of failed Apple products. Some I had forgotten. Some I had never heard of:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010/01/29/rotten-apples-history-apple-misses?slide=1

interesting...i wonder who made the call on what was a failed product?

The cube was a huge hit, and still quite popular among its owners....it evolved into the mini which is still one the cheapest bang for your buck computer options.

The clones in the day where better hardware than what apple produced...steve jobs saw this and shut them down...hardly would consider Power Computing to be a failed computer.

[Pat Germain]

The clones in the day where better hardware than what apple produced...steve jobs saw this and shut them down...hardly would consider Power Computing to be a failed computer.

Do you relly think the clones were better? One of my coworkers bought a brand new Power PC and it was slow; dog slow. Perhaps he just had a lousy example.

[Tim Morton]

Do you relly think the clones were better? One of my coworkers bought a brand new Power PC and it was slow; dog slow. Perhaps he just had a lousy example.

The Power Computing powertower and especially powertower pros that i used, were definitely better machines than their apple counterpart.

There might have been some lower end home versions like the powerwave models that were competing with the performa line...i did not have any experience with that line.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/powercc/index-power-computing-mac-clones.html

[John Coloccia]

Fox News has a slideshow of failed Apple products. Some I had forgotten. Some I had never heard of:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010/01/29/rotten-apples-history-apple-misses?slide=1

And they didn't even remember the Lisa.

[Eric Franklin]

Fox News has a slideshow of failed Apple products. Some I had forgotten. Some I had never heard of:

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/2010/01/29/rotten-apples-history-apple-misses?slide=1

What's interesting is that only 2 of those were released when Steve Jobs was CEO.

I would agree with Tim that the cube wan't a failure. The biggest problem with the cube was the price.

[Greg Peterson]

I read a book on the history of Apple some years ago. There is little doubt in my mind that were it not for Apple, Apple would have been the number one computer/software company in the world.

They spent so much money on developing technology only to pull the plug right before the product was ready to go to market.

Quicktime - They gave it away because the big wigs wanted to change direction and didn't see a value in it. Quicktime completely changed computing. It might very well have been an even bigger deal than Lotus. Remember how computers in the early 90's were classified as 'multi-media'? We can thank Quicktime for that.

Apple and IBM teamed up and designed and built a prototype machine that would run Windows and Apples OS. The team was given the near impossible task of designing and building an operational prototype in just six months. They delivered on time only to have the CEO at the time pull the plug on the project.

There were numerous other examples that in hindsight clearly demonstrate how at times Apple was essentially a luxury liner being piloted by Mr. Magoo.

[Bryan Morgan]

Maybe the mods need to ban "apple conversations" along with politics and religion.:D

Well, being that Apple is pretty much a cult.........kind of IS a religion :D

I manage a pretty sizeable network which includes plenty of Apple products (several hundred nodes spread out around So. Cal.). I just don't get the hype. I have an ipod and its great, never will own an iphone because its just not useful to me. I get to play with them all the time as our sales staff and whatever other person who has to have the "coolest" gadget brings them to me to setup on our network....though they are usually replaced with Blackberrys within a few weeks...:) I don't hate Apple or anything, I just don't get all the hype and zealots.

[Bryan Morgan]

I will admit that generally Mac's are more reliable than their PC counterparts. But considering the virtually finite and defined confines of their operating environment, this degree of reliability should be expected.

I've gone through thousands of computers at work including many Macs. In my experience they aren't any more or less reliable than anything else. They are just computers. Most computers nowdays are built pretty solid and most OSs I use are pretty good these days (with the exception of Vista, at least until recently).

[Tim Morton]

Well, being that Apple is pretty much a cult.........kind of IS a religion :D

I manage a pretty sizeable network which includes plenty of Apple products (several hundred nodes spread out around So. Cal.). I just don't get the hype. I have an ipod and its great, never will own an iphone because its just not useful to me. I get to play with them all the time as our sales staff and whatever other person who has to have the "coolest" gadget brings them to me to setup on our network....though they are usually replaced with Blackberrys within a few weeks...:) I don't hate Apple or anything, I just don't get all the hype and zealots.

Maybe i am wrong...but i don't see it as Apple kool-aid drinkers always running around talking up how great apple products are...even though yes they are GREAT:D

Look at this thread...it was started by someone saying the iPad sucks...thats right a product that has not even been released yet sucks. It seems every product apple releases gets the same thing...people love to come out of the woodwork to put them down, and apple people see this and then chime in...if that makes us zeolets then so be it.

I also love the millions of " Hey i got a virus and my PC won't do this any more ( insert problem here).

Or gee i just bought a brand new PC and i can't get it to print...

So then an apple guy will generally say...well maybe if you are having so much trouble with PC's you shuld maybe look at the mac OS...sure they cost more, but here are 10 reasons why they might be easier for you to use.

I have not seen one post started anywhere saying ...The iPad is the greatest thing ever...you must buy one!!!!!"

Of course i don't see many where people start threads saying ...Thank god i got rid of my imac finally...what a piece of crap...i am so much happier now with my Dell INspiron desktop " either...:cool:

[John Coloccia]

I didn't exactly say it sucked. I said I thought it was a dud. For the record, my living room has a Mac Mini, I have a Macbook Pro, and I'm typing this on my iPhone, so I think it's a little unfair to group me in with the apple bashers, no?

I can look at a feature set and decide if I think something is useful without having bought it first. I'm sorry but to me it seems likes a terribly unfocused effort, kind of like, "Hey, look at this neat thing that we made", but it doesn't really fill a niche. Perhaps they're trying to create one, but I don't see it. Is anyone really going to read a book with a 1.5lb piece of glass on their lap?

The major failing IMHO, is that it doesn't have a phone. If it had a phone, it would replace my iPhone, and on trips I only needed e-mail, it would replace my laptop. Instead, it replaces NOTHING for me. I still need my iPhone, and thus I have e-mail on that. If I need my laptop, it's because I need something other than just e-mail. I have to carry this in addition to my other devices, not instead of. If it had a phone in it, I would probably buy it. Simple as that, and that's what I mean when I said it's unfocused. It doesn't seem to fit any niche just right. It doesn't replace the laptop by any stretch, and it doesn't replace the portable phone/PDA thing. It's something that you need in addition to everything else, and if most people are like me, they're looking to simplify their lives, not make them more complex.

[Mike Cutler]

The biggest problem with the cube was the price.

Actually, the biggest problem with the cube was heat dissipation. The cube would overheat the processor. The newer generations since, ie. the Mac Mini, have external power supplies, and not a combination of power supplies both internal and external to the enclosure.

I've had Mac's for 12 -13 years now. They are just as functional as PC's, although the PC is still better for pirating DVD's.:D,;) With Mac's you just have a different set of issues to deal with than a PC.
I do find it interesting that whenever a parade of Apple failures is demonstrated, they are, by in large, on products and platforms 10-15 years out of date.

I'll admit that I don't get the iPad, but then I see no reason to have an iPhone, or a Blackberry, or a Droid. That's just me though.
I'm going to assume that some marketing research has shown that a significant market share of consumers are not interested in a computers capability, or expansion, and only care about fundamental uses like eMail, surfing, and other net based applications, and don't want to worry with the hassle of upgrading.
I'm certain that as each new generation comes out, it will be tailored to meet current market demands, and this is where Apple sometimes falls down, very hard. They stop supporting previous generations of hardware very quickly, which forces a new hardware purchase, or the purchase of an " Adapter" that somehow can't be a function of the newer hardware and is of course proprietary and only available through Apple initially. They're really kind of bad about this. Video components seem to be very quickly abandoned. I state this from much experience in dealing with these issues.

A lot of us here work in industries where computers are an integrated part of our work routine, so we are comfortable with them. A lot of folks though are not.
People don't like it when they load an "Automatic Software Update", either Mac or PC, because both are equally notorious for it, and all of the sudden software programs or peripherals stop working, and they end up spending the better part of a weekend day searching out software/firmware updates for their peripherals so that functionality can be restored. A lot of people just "want the thing to work". I see the iPad as a viable purchase for them. Me, I'll stick with my 7 year old powerbook.

People have been betting against Apple for a decade now. A look at the stock performance over that time would indicate that Apple seems to be doing something correct.

Time will tell if the iPad is a success.I wouldn't buy the first generation though.;)

[Eric DeSilva]

Look at this thread...it was started by someone saying the iPad sucks...thats right a product that has not even been released yet sucks. It seems every product apple releases gets the same thing...people love to come out of the woodwork to put them down, and apple people see this and then chime in...if that makes us zeolets then so be it.

No Tim, it wasn't started that way. No one in the entire thread has said this device sucks. In fact, most people have said they harbor a fair amount of respect for Apple products.

If you go back and look, you might find that the more aggressive posts have been the pro-Apple ones, yours included. And, I see no reason why intelligent people aren't allowed to talk about how they perceive a device that hasn't been released. People do it all the time. Why is the iPad not fair game? I watched a rather lengthy product intro and have read a considerable number of reviews and the product specs on Apple's page. It isn't like we aren't talking about a known quantity.

Go back and read the whole thread again. Try and be objective. Seems to me the Apple crowd has been a little thin-skinned about very legitimate questions about Apple's decision making on this product about features and functionality and where it fits into the mobile and computing matrix.

[Greg Peterson]

I have not seen one post started anywhere saying ...The iPad is the greatest thing ever...you must buy one!!!!!"

First post on this page reads:
"Ultimately the IPad will be a game changer. It will require a killer app however. And future generations will need to step up functionality (phone, camera...)."

I guess I didn't say it's the greatest thing ever, but I do think it is a revolutionary product.

Having worked with Apple's OS and Windows, I just don't see where one OS is better than the other. It's a matter of personal preference at this juncture.

[Scott Shepherd]

Well, being that Apple is pretty much a cult.........kind of IS a religion :D



I agree, just the same type of religion that PC people practice. It's always amazed me that if you mention Apple, then you're a Kool aid drinker, but if you mention PC, then everything is fine and we're all good. I think a mirror would serve many well. Which one is the religion, the apple or the PC? If it's one, then it's both.

Some of the comments in this thread are just laughable. If the worst thing you can say about a Mac is that you had to reboot it once to get it to see a new network, then I concede, they are junk. We'll just bypass all those 100's of post on a woodworking forum about "help, I got a virus". Let's just pretend that's a great system.

I agree with you all, PC's are great, and Mac's are toys for kids, mostly fads and all overpriced and hard to use.

[Eric DeSilva]

It's always amazed me that if you mention Apple, then you're a Kool aid drinker, but if you mention PC, then everything is fine and we're all good.

Scott, in all honesty, that isn't what I see when I read posts here that raise Mac v. PC issues. By and large, I think those that you perceive as pro-PC are quite willing to say that Macs are well built and that they are fine computers for quite a few people. I certainly will say it--I own a lot of Apple gear. The difference--it seems to me--is that the pro-Mac crowd seems unwilling to admit that the PC is appropriate for anyone without being snide about it.

Part and parcel of that seems to be an unwillingness to admit that there are any imperfections in Macs. For example, I don't think the poster who talked about having to reboot was saying that Macs were junk because of that. I think they were pointing out that Macs aren't perfect. There is a big range between "junk" and "perfect." Frankly, that poster actually said he thought the iPad was going to be a big hit and that Macs were typically more reliable than PCs.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I agree with you all, PC's are great, and Mac's are toys for kids, mostly fads and all overpriced and hard to use.

Glad you finally see it our way. <grin>

Actually, the reason 'we' in PC-land have so many conflicts is that with 95% of the mini-computer market there are many more chefs in the kitchen doing what they can to improve the soup and produce the best side dishes. Efforts to satisfy all of the pushers and shovers gets you a 30 year long series of compromises. I don't see this as a bad thing. Mr. Gates gets bashed for fostering a "wild west" syndrome where anything goes, Mr. Jobs gets bashed for being a Stalinist dictator allowing only the chosen few to slice the carrots. Pick one.

Those of us intelligent enough to work through the mess, survive. The rest by Apples. <Ohhhh... another grin. Really.>


Victor's phonograph's needles moved side to side and ANYONE could produce records for it.
Edison's phonograph's needle moved up and down and he kept tight control over who could produce records for it.
Guess who won - long before stereo proved which was the better technology?
.

[Scott Shepherd]

Frankly, that poster actually said he thought the iPad was going to be a big hit and that Macs were typically more reliable than PCs.

I think you need to look at that posters history of posts on the subject on this forum, not just in this thread.

Mitchell, you keep on betting against Steve Jobs. I'll add you to the list of people that were dead wrong about Steve Job's run Apple. Apple without Jobs has been a mess at best, Apple with Jobs has done well.

Let's not forget who invented the PC. It wasn't Bill Gates.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't see this as a bad thing. Mr. Gates gets bashed for fostering a "wild west" syndrome where anything goes, Mr. Jobs gets bashed for being a Stalinist dictator allowing only the chosen few to slice the carrots. Pick one.

I think you might need to read a little history on it. The reason virus' exist on MS products is BECAUSE Microsoft wouldn't listen to developers. Their operation system is closed and they do not allow access to the code either. So the two you believe are on opposite sides are actually practicing the same techniques.

Do some research on how all the groups tried to get MS to close some holes in their system, and they were told to shut up. Those people were responsible for creating virus' to exploit the holes to force MS to correct the issues.

How'd that work out? Not so good......20 years later, we still have that mess that all could have been avoided if they would have listened to the people.

[Glenn Clabo]

Let's hear the sounds of everyone taking a deep breath...

In through the nose...deeper...hold...now out...