Help me get ready for dovetails

[Ed Lang]

I am making a few boxes for Christmas gifts this year. I have never cut a dovetail by had till last night. I use a rusted saw and not very sharp. I also used scrap pine from a pallet. Bottom line.... I liked doing the work and it came out not too bad for a first time. IF I had proper instruction, tools and wood, I think I could go a good job with practice.......

Now is your chance to help me out. Please suggest a shopping list of tools for me to get in order to product great handcut dovetails. I would rather get good tools now and learn to use them than get cheap tools and buy again when I get good. I will also need to learn how to sharpen my tools so any assistance here would be great too. Scary sharp seems a easy to get started in route.

Lets say that $200 is the top end for tools. What would you suggest I get?

Assume I have nothing and need to buy everything.

Thank you for helping me.
Ed

[Jerry Palmer]

The bare minimum you will need for cutting DTs is a saw, some chisels, a device for marking out the cuts, and a sharp pencil.

With a $200 budget, your options for saws are a bit limited; an inexpensive Japanese pull saw (or similar) or a refurbished older western style saw. Modern made western saws, with the exception of the high dollar ones from specialty woodworking stores are more or less junk.

Good chisels, likewise, are expensive unless you shop old carbon steel chisels. One possible exception, at least for the price in my opinion, are the Marples Blue Chip chisels. You may or may not be able to find them still as I believe Record took them over, then Rubbermaid bought Record and they quit making planes and maybe chisels too.

As to a device for marking out the cuts, a couple of routes exist. One is a sliding T bevel, and again reasonably priced older ones are my choice. Another route is a DT specific marking device. Lee Valley/Veritas has a couple of good choices in these at a reasonable price.

Lots of folks, including me, prefer a marking knife to a pencil for actually putting the marks to the wood.

And you will need a sharpening system. If you go with an old western style saw, you can sharpen the saw yourself with the appropriate sized tapered triangular saw. You will also need a saw set if you go this route and for the small teeth of a DT saw, one that can be used for 14 to 16 TPI. You will also need some way of sharpening the chisels, even new ones need initial work on the backs and the cutting edge. Initially, a Scarey Sharp system, several grits of sandpaper and a flat surface such as a thick piece of glass or a marble slab etc. Starting out in sharpening you might also want a guide for getting a consistent bevel.

The list could go on and on, with home made jigs, guides and aids as well as store-bought stuff, with many of these being needed/used for other hand and machine woodworking.

[Ray Thompson]

1. Straight bench chisels. Get a basic set of 5. If you are going to do half blinds get a 1/8 also. Marples makes a decent starter set

2. Fine tooth saw, either a Japanese or Western Dovetail. I have both but reach for the Japanese saw first, I seem to have a bit better control

3. Dovetail marking gauge.(can be made) or a sliding "T" bevel. No need to buy this just make one

4. 2", 4", or 6" square. I use a 4" engineers square, very handy for small boxes and drawers

5. Cutting gauge. Get one with a round cutter such as the Veritas, cuts a nice clean line.

6. Mallet or dead blow hammer. Mallet is best but dead blow works well enough.

7. 6" ruler. Can't have to many rulers.

8. Marking knife, #11 X-Acto, even a plain ole box knife.. My old Craftsman utility knife works just as well as my fancy marking knife.

9. Pencils. I sharpen to a chisel point and darken the knife marks so my old eyes can see better. Also makes a clean sharp line when transfering cut lines.

Relax and have fun, you will make better joints.

Ray

[Mark Singer]

I would look at the Zona saws. They are very inexpensive and some are exremely thin making it much easier. The prices are very inexpensive...like $6 to $10!http://www.nscalesupply.com/zon/ZON-Saws.html

[Steve Cox]

The Zona saws work pretty well but I would be loathe to give up my Adria DT saw. Pricey at $125 or so with shipping but simply the best handsaw I have used for dovetails ( I've used Zonas, dozukis, turned handle saws, etc). The nice thing about the Adria, is that it's already sharpened meaning that you don't need any jigs at the beginning for that and you learn very quickly what a properly sharpened and set up saw feels and cuts like. The Marples are good enough chisels. They sharpen quite well you just have to do it more often. A dovetail gauge and a mallet you can make out of scraps. For a marking gauge, I like the Lee Valley wheel gauge. They also have a couple of nice marking knives. Others have given great advice on squares, etc.

[Tom LaRussa]

Lets say that $200 is the top end for tools. What would you suggest I get? Assume I have nothing and need to buy everything.

Cool. Let's go shopping.

Since you're knew we'll cheat a bit and go the ready-made route on some stuff:

First you'll need to lay out the DTs.

Veritas Dovetail Markers, 9.95
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=32586&category=1,42936,50298

Marking Knife
Veritas Striking Knife, 26.50,
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32531&category=1,42936,42949&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=

OR

Dave Anderson Marking Knife -- $? -- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?u=108
Next, you'll need to cut the puppies out:

Shark Corp 10-2204 Dowel/Dovetail/Detail Saw -- $14.99
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004TBPU/qid=1098374648/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-2054718-3763950?v=glance&s=hi

Marples M444/S4 4-Piece Blue Chip Bench Chisel Set -- $24.99
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000457K2/qid=1098374796/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-2054718-3763950?v=glance&s=hi
After a while you'll need to sharpen things. The saw you needn't bother with as the blade is replaceable. Here's what you'll need for the chisels:

Honing Guide -- $7.95
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=EE-HG-800-1800&Category_Code=THG

3M Micro Abrasive Film for Scary Sharpening - PSA in five grit sizes, 8.95
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-MAF.XX&Category_Code=THS
I make the total about $93 plus shipping. You can save another $26.50 if you go with a pencil instead of a marking knife.

How's that?

Tom

[Robert Tarr]

Just a couple more things...you may want to pick up a coping or jeweler's saw to cut the waste (you can chop it out with the chisels as well) and a block plane to clean things up after you put things together. I would also include a set of dividers in my list of must have tools...I have my father's old Starrett, but no need for that, a $3-4 HF jobby will do the same thing. I use the dividers for laying out the pin spacing and from there mark out the pins etc.

Have fun.

Robert

[Dan Gill]

This is a timely post for me. I was just about to post a question about getting a saw for dovetails. I've seen suggestions of a pull saw, what looks like a flush-cut saw, and a back saw. Which do you dovetailers prefer? I have a flush cut pull saw, but I have to think that something stiffer would be preferable. I'm not even going to attempt to use my Stanley miter box saw.

[Aaron Kline]

The saw is all up to you, I prefer western saws 90 times over the japanese, I can sharpen them myself, and the jap. saws I tried, the teeth would break. If you want a disston dovetail saw, try http://www.cookessharpening.com/ or
http://www.vintagesaws.com/ I am not far from Cooke's and he does a great job at a great price. If you get a saw from him it is sharpended and set, all ready to go. As for chisels, the Grizzly Japanese chisels got a good review on the one site I was at. And the Veritas dovetail markers are awesome! Have fun!

[Chris Padilla]

Aaron,

I have a set of those Jap. chisels from Grizzly. They all chip on me so what I found is to grind them back from 25° to 30°, and then resharpen. The extra meat behind the blade keeps them from chipping so easily. Of course, I may not be using them correctly, too! :)

[Michael Perata]

I would second Mark's suggestion on the Zona saws. Very inexpensive, very good. http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2690

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I'd try to find a nice older disston, atkins or similar saw at a local flea market--you can probably find one for less than $20. You may even find a marking gauge and a few chisels to boot. If not, you could peruse e-bay. I've bought several old backsaws for less than $30 and sliding bevels and chisels go cheap every day.

[Lloyd Robins]

Rather than a set of Marples Chisels get only a few sizes of the Ashley Isles Chisels from Joel at www.toolsforworkingwood.com. You can add the rest of the set later. (Or a small set runs about $84 plus shipping. They are better chisels than the Marples IMHO. A Spehar saw is about $90.00 at http://www.spehar-toolworks.com/dovetailsaws.html# . Add the other things mentioned and you are not much above the $200.00 limit, and you have good chisels and from what I have heard a very good saw. Also, Dave Anderson's marking knives are great. Good Luck!

[Pam Niedermayer]

I'd recommend a Professional Dozuki from LV, a small set (6) of Two Cherries chisels (or Hirsch), and a video by Frank Klausz or Jim Kingshott. You should have a lot left over from your $200.

Pam

[Ed Lang]

I'll have to compile all of this knowledge and sort out what I will get.

I don't get to flea markets like I would like to but if I knew what to look for, I bet I could find some neat stuff......

Again, thanks everyone.... I'll let you know how I make out.