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View Full Version : AcryliPrint™ versus Laser etching?



Stephen Beckham
01-25-2010, 1:36 PM
I know this is engraving forum, but I'm thinking of moving into the Acryliprint game to add to the laser so I don't just have a white etching option with the laser, I could do color as well.

Anyone have knowledge, use or information on the AcryliPrint™ Fusion Processor?

Steve

Mike Null
01-25-2010, 2:15 PM
Steve

Don't have much info but it seems that the Acrylic Idea Factory is using something like this.

I'm sure it will be at the ARA in Las Vegas next month if you plan to attend that show.

Stephen Beckham
01-25-2010, 2:21 PM
Rgr... I believe they are selling the Fusion Machine to do it... The 1st generation of color on acrylic looked nothing like the email traffic or catalog prints... My understanding is this 2nd gen machine gives greater quality, but it's like the worlds best secret right now - I requested info, but got the run-around....

Guess I'll have to wait till after the show to see what's up with it...

Martin Boekers
01-25-2010, 3:26 PM
Steve, Acrylic Idea factory makes these. Set up fees make it expensive for one ups.

I have a sample set I ordered for about $25 nice set. A little gimicky not sure how long it will hold peoples interest. Sort of like the Crystal Imprints.

There are a handfull of ways you can experiment with now with out a lot of cost.

These include;

Color laser transfer
http://www.themagictouchusa.com/products/paper/hardsurface.html

Prints on mylar with UV adhesive.
http://www.dyetrans.com/crystalmprints_blank_index.php?ref=conde

Water slide decals
http://www.papilio.com/

More cost but something I'd explore before this process. A flat bed printer
that you could print on a variety of substrates from baseballs, tiles, wood plastic etc.


On the transfer products most would require a back spray as the toners are transparent. I've used white spray paint, gold, silver etc for a nice set of effects.

I too got a run around from AIF they were going to have a tech call but that never came.

The sample I got had a heavy plastic backing, I haven't tried engraving through that, but if you design the image right you could engrave on the front side.


Since they are calling it "Fusion" I'm leaning toward a UV adhesive.

Marty

Stephen Beckham
01-25-2010, 3:57 PM
Just got a PDF flyer about the process - so I guess the 'run-around' I spoke of earlier was just a blanket auto-response. Now that I've actually talked to someone, it seems like it might be a marketable thing in the future.

The machines are not publically available yet and AI are the only ones doing it. Not much more information than that as far as having one at your local store.


@ Martin, thanks - I realized that it would be expensive for one-offs - but if the process is viable and the machines are made available for us local vendors, it might make a huge profit margin if the quality is as good as the photos in the flyers... The Crystal ones were way too expensive and had a poor color quality. Almost jumped on that when it came out, but a friend did first and now I'm glad I didn't... I'd like to see one of these in action at the factory or at a show before I get too excited about them.

Martin Boekers
01-25-2010, 4:36 PM
The quality is pretty good as I got 3 or 4 actual samples from them.

The crystal stuff can be better than what they showed, I just haven't had much time to experiment with it. If you printed to a white mylar instead of clear I think the effect would be similar to AIF product.

You don't need the whole package (Crystal Imprints) you can set up a UV cure system for a $100 or so. Then all you need is the glue.

I have thought about that here as I have a heck of a time getting Weld-On to look good consistantly. They have UV adhesives for glass as well as acrylic.

I use CLTT for tiles and it has been a great seller on base.

Waterslide decals have been a great option when I needed centerpieces with images and text (great for candles)

I too am always looking for new ways to incorporate color images into a project easily and cheaply.

Victor Sud
01-26-2010, 5:16 PM
Just received from Acrylic Idea:

The blanks come with an optically clear adhesive already applied to the back. You simply print a full color graphic on a regular ink jet printer with regular ink, apply the printed image to the acrylic piece, then fuse the image to the acrylic by placing it in the fusion processor for 90 seconds.

The Fusion Processor requires a compressor to run.

You must use Acrylic Idea Factory blanks with the adhesive already applied in order to perform the process.

Martin Boekers
01-26-2010, 9:01 PM
When I worked for a graphics shop we mounted photos or transparencies to acrylic sheets for displays.

We used a cold laminating roller process. We did large sheets and quantities at a time so our laminating machine was bigger and a bit more sophisticated than this;

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CD0064/

but this would be cheap enough to get started, you can get hand cranked ones for a couple hundred dollars but this one can be adjusted to take up 2" thick material.

The material we used was an optically clear double sided adhesive.
there are a handful out there, Permacolor, Optimount and a few others.
These are pressure sensitive and not cheap!

There is definetely a learning curve in applying these. A clean area is a MUST as it creates static when you run them. Any bit of dust can cause a "tenting" with an air pocket. After you get the hang of it it isn't too bad.

With some practice and since most of these are on small piece you maybe able to get by with a hand squeegee to get stared and experiment with.

If they are using a compressor on their Fusion Machine that tells me they maybe using a vacuum mount.

If your interested in doing this I suggest that you find a graphics or display company in your area, take some samples and see if they'll help you with running some tests with cold mounts. (you may even end up with a new clients to sell laser work to).

The thing I would worry about with buying into a proprietary system is;
if for whatever reason AIF quits selling the product are there other uses for their machine?

Just some thoughts,

Marty

Mike Null
01-26-2010, 10:55 PM
I had the pleasure of a surprise visit from Roy Brewer of Engraving Concepts today. As many of you know, Roy and daughter, Jeanette are active members of SMC.

After discussion of several topics the subject of Acryliprint came up. Roy not only knew about it but advised me that his company would be one of the distributors. Next question--"Roy do you have any samples"? He did and I was stunned at the quality of the image. Absolutely the best I have seen and a process, I think, has tremendous potential in many areas.

The official introduction is scheduled for the ARA show in Las Vegas in February. I was not considering any major equipment outlays this year but once Roy sends samples and I put them in front of a few of my better commercial customers I may have to re-think that.

Acrylic Idea Factory is the developer of the process and the Fusion Device.

Joe Hayes
01-26-2010, 11:19 PM
Not only did you get to visit with Roy, you got first look at this new toy.
Sound like it will be one of the first things I want to see at LV. Looking forward to our plane ride out and having some visiting time with you in a few weeks.

Martin Boekers
01-26-2010, 11:52 PM
Mike as far as quality goes you are absolutely right. The samples I ordered were very nice! (very slight air bubbles not real noticeable just slightly) It looked like they occurred at the initial contact spot. That can be expected and as long as they are kept to a minimum that's not a problem!

The one issue I had was in the way they advertised it, even on their web page

http://www.aifcatalog.com/

16 million colors no extra charge. (no mention of the set-up fee, which to me is an extra charge) a bit deceptive.

I was looking to do a generic design that would lend itself to an area for front engraving. That may still happen once award season is over and I can spend sometime on a design.

the thick textured black backing they added gave it a nice "finished look."

I do think it's a nice product and lends itself well to the ad specialty and corporate markets, where quantities come into play.

Any new products that aren't just a different shape or color (and this IS a new product) gives us another option for clients.

I applaud the manufacturers that come up with new products and take the gamble of bringing them to the market place.

I am curious though if this process uses double-sided adhesive (either hot or cold mount) or a UV curing process. Maybe even something I haven't thought of, a new technology!:)

I guess after ARA we will all learn a bit more about it!


Marty

Mike Null
01-27-2010, 6:46 AM
I saw only the acrylic product; no literature nor the Fusion device.

As I understand the process, and this is apparently the most important part, the adhesive is proprietary and so far AIF feels to maintain consistency, they must apply it to the acrylic.

That means that the machine must be purchased from an AIF distributor and the acrylic from AIF.

The image is made with a good quality inkjet printer.

I won't attempt to describe the machine, which I haven't seen, except to say it is not a vacuum device.

Bill Stein
01-28-2010, 5:25 PM
I use CLTT for tiles and it has been a great seller on base.


Martin, what tiles are you using and where do you get them? I have been trying various tiles and haven't gotten any results that are scratch resistent.

Bill

Martin Boekers
01-28-2010, 7:58 PM
I use basic wall tiles from Lowes Home Depot etc. $.15ea 4.25x4.25, $.49ea 6x6, $1 for 8x10.

Keep in mind these are being used as decorative pieces on plaques or framed. Yes you can scratch the toner off if you work at it, just as you can if they are silkscreened. You can set the toner a bit stronger after you remove the release paper and set it back in the press, platen raised for about 3-4 minutes.

If you were to use them as a back splash for a sink or a bar top for example you may want to spray them with a protectant coat. If you poly coated them they may work for flooring. My market is more the display so I haven't researched a "harder use" tile.

Dye sub tiles and ink are quite a bit more expensive than CLTT process and a bit harder to color manage. I'll post some of the products I make tomorrow when I'm back at the shop.

It's not a ceramic glaze but it works well within it's limitations.

Marty

Bill Stein
01-30-2010, 2:55 PM
I've been using the ceramic glazed tiles from Lowes, HD, etc. also. And, I am post baking them. But they still scratch fairly easily. I have been playing around with spraying them with protective coatings after post baking. But it seems that the protective sprays adhere to the toner better than the tile and don't offer any additional protection. In other words, the scratch resistance still depends upon the adhesion between the toner and the tile. I was hoping for a protective coat that would keep a fingernail from reaching the toner. But it seems like it is just as easy to scratch with or without a coating. I'll keep looking and experimenting. There has to be something that is the equivalent to a spray on plastic overlay sheet. I just haven't found it yet.

Bill

AL Ursich
01-30-2010, 4:20 PM
I have had the same results with CLTT went back to Sublimation. I wonder how Epoxy Dome would work for the Tile..?

I have the same hand crank dry mount roller in 48 inch. Got it in San Diego at a garage sale for $25.00... What a deal... Was going to make a Thickness sander with Velcro sandpaper but never did... Now I use it in my Vinyl and Metal Sign business... Was a good find... No tray on my unit...

Has anyone tried to Sublimate Print on White or Clear Mates and applying it to Acrylic?

AL

Martin Boekers
01-30-2010, 11:03 PM
Scratching really hasn't been an issue for me, granted I haven't been going out of my way to try to scratch it since the majority of the work I use tiles for is hung on a wall so they don't see much abuse, from things hitting it. I do stay away from glossy tiles, the ones I use are more of a matte or satin finish. I have read about some glazing material that works with mugs at a much lower temp than typically glazes. I'll check on those again and if I find anything interesting I'll be sure to post.

I know others here use it CLTT especially on metal plates maybe they can help out.

Dye sub is expensive, I still use it for mugs and a few other items. I have an Epson 1400 with a bulk ink set up. It's just really hard to get good consistant color on full color images with the one profile that Sawgrass has. Also since the driver won't let you print black ink only I get a dark muddy brown instead:( Some have recommended to me to make my own color profiles for each product I use. I don't do enough to invest in a system to create profiles and custom shops charge a fair amount to do it.

I know the transfer paper manufacturers recommend post heating that may or may not help. I do keep pressure pretty strong on the press and have had issues if the pressure was too light.

Sometimes for whatever reason products work better for some of us than others. Some users of Cermark here have wonderful success with it. I haven't been able to get it to work anywhere near what I have seen posted:confused:

I'll let you know if I find something that may work better.

Marty

matt heinzel
02-04-2010, 8:58 AM
I got this Reply from AcryliPrint.

"Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the exciting opportunity the Acryliprint Fusion Processor offers your business. The recognition industry has long been looking for a fast, full proof method of producing full color awards. Acrylic Idea Factory has been providing a fulfillment service for the past couple of years and have perfected their process. They did not want a repeat of the problems associated with sublimation and have brought to market a quick and easy way to deliver full color awards. Please find the attached brochure for your reference. The fuser unit will list for $15,995 but is currently being offered at an introductory price of $14,500. This is the same price we will be offering at the ARA trade show in Las Vegas this year. We are still getting the blank pricing together but I can give you an example of a 3 ½” X 7” full color triangle award. Acrylic Idea normally charges $22 plus setup, personalization, typesetting, and artwork fees. A blank from them would run about $13 ready to be fused. You would use a normal ink jet printer with standard photo paper to produce the artwork, which is then fused on to the back of the acrylic blank with no bubbles or blemishes. The colors stay true and the images appear more interesting with the depth and dimension provided by the acrylic. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like me to provide a formal quote. I appreciate the opportunity."

Rodne Gold
02-04-2010, 10:51 AM
Seems an expensive way to get a colour print onto acrylic to me?
For 15k you can buy a very handsome digital print and cut machine and expand your markets way beyond what this can do.

Martin Boekers
02-04-2010, 11:29 AM
Wow! I'm with you Rodne. That does seem to be a bit on the high side.

There are many ways to attach a photo to acrylic a whole lot cheaper (as I mentioned earlier, check out a local commercial lab or graphics display house. They will have a lot of experience in this area.)
Even with a Crystal Imprints set up you can do it for $1000, less if you make a UV curing set-up.

For mounting photographs to plex you may want to check this out, it was started in the late 60's and I believe is still done today (probably not cheap to have done) a process called Diasec using a silicon based adhesive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diasec

When you mount an image to Plexi it does appear to be brighter and clearer, some searching on the Diasec process will explain it a bit better.

Rodne Gold
02-04-2010, 12:15 PM
The boss of degussa did a demo here of a machine that takes thick (or thin)perspex and allows you to embed anything between 2 pieces , within reason
It used a method of heating the surfaces and then samwhiching (SP?) the item between em and cooling at a predetermined rate. Stuff looked amazing , I think the machine was in that price range too but it did a lot more as the item was actually embedded. A picture was a snap (so to speak) for this thingymabob.
I didnt think it that versatile however - pretty much a limited market for embedments.
One has to be aware , that photo type awards can look rather tacky compared to elegant frosted engraving. Personally , I would rather have a less than perfect laser engraved image than a brilliant full colour one - I think the laser etching wow factor is bigger...

Tania Duper
03-03-2010, 10:41 PM
I spent some time at the AcryliPrint booth at the ARA show in Vegas last week.

Yes, they offered their fusion machine for $14.5k without air compressor (supply your own), another $1k for the compressor built in.

Their demo involved the same Canon 8-color ink jet printer we have as they print on regular inkjet photopaper. They also had newspaper and magazine clippings, as well as a real dollar bill for examples but the quality of nespaper & magazines was nothing like printed photopaper. They were just showing you can fuse pretty much anything to their acrylic. There's no need for transparent ink or paper.

They sell their own acrylic that has been prepared for use with their fusion machine. I'm not sure if any typical acrylic blanks would give "close enough" results or not. They want to sell acrylic blanks, but they were experimenting with other items with typical (transparent) sublimation products.

The photopaper is attached to the back of the acrylic blank, and is inserted between two mats inside the fusion machine, and 90 seconds later a warm product emerges. They trimmed the edges of the photopaper with a razor (since they suggest about 1/4" or so overhang as the photopaper may shrink a little) and an amazingly beautiful product emerged. Since photopaper is fused to the acrylic, the back of the photopaper provides a nice, smooth backing.

Their fusion machine has adjustable timer and temperature so that one can use it for typical, much hotter sublimation. They were experimenting with typical sublimation materials one of the times I approached their booth. They also said you can fuse to glass, probably with different temperature/time settings, but they were pushing acrylic. They did show me an example they did with glass, and it too looked just as good as the acrylic. Most sublimation I've seen looks pretty bad. I doubt sublimation will ever approach this level of quality.

The products were extremely impressive, and if it wasn't for the $14.5k price tag there'd be one right next to me.

If you want to stack acrylic blanks, you'll have a problem since photopaper isn't very transparent. You can trim the photopaper before fusing, but that portion of the project will not be transparent. Perhaps that is what you want anyway?

There isn't much to see with their fusion machine so all I can do is explain. The top of it is flat, and it's just below chest level, making for a great place to place a cutting mat and related tools/supplies. A drawer pulls out on the front, which has a couple pads that the item is placed between. To the right are a few controls, timer, temp, go/stop buttons.

They had one that was missing the cover so people could see what's inside. There wasn't much to see, really. Basically, it adds heat and pressure. The trick is to do it consistently across the entire area. I forgot the max dimensions they recommend, something like 18" x 24". If you go over their max, bubbles could result and you have to redo it.

Providing the computer and printer is an "exercise for the student". The computer is just used for printing on photopaper. The machine doesn't need a computer at all, just power and a caveman to push the go button.

I was very impressed with the results, I just wish it was a bit cheaper. I find it hard to believe their fusion machine actually costs $14.5k. One can buy a car for that amount that includes an engine, trans, power windows and A/C.