Where to buy vintage planes?

[Matthew Bobek]

Hello all, I'm new to the forum and a beginning hand tool enthusiast (since I haven't actually built anything with them yet). I'm currently in college and a history major, so naturally vintage planes and tools intrigue me. I'd like to start using vintage hand tools, but I'm not sure where to come across them. I live in southeast Michigan and am unaware of where to begin my search. I've looked on eBay, but I think some of those people are out of their mind on the pricing. I have a limited budget, so I would like to avoid brand new, like LN or LV, if at all possible. And besides, I'd rather own and use a piece of history than the latest technology. With that said I do own a table saw and the other basics, but I'd really like to get away from them. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[James Ogle]

I am unsure what the vintage tool market looks like in your neck of the woods but it should be pretty good. Flea markets, estate/garage sales, Craigs List, and dealers are your best bets. You might try antique stores they can be hit or miss. Sometimes they are very affordable but more times than not they are way over priced. There are a number of online vendors that deal with antique tools; Brass City (http://www.brasscityrecords.com/), Bob Kaune (http://www.antique-used-tools.com/), Patrick Leach (http://www.supertool.com/forsale/january10.htm), and a host of others. Their prices are often at the top end of Ebay sales but you are assured that you are getting what you pay for. No planes with mixed up parts or hidden damage.

It has appeared to me that the further east and north one goes the better the tool market becomes. So hit up a few garage/estate sales this weekend and see what you find and report back with some pics.

Edit: Forgot to add that if you want to learn about the tools before you buy then Disstonian Institute (http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/), Patrick's Blood and Gore (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html), and The Stanley Bench Plane Page (http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/) are great places to learn about the tools and the differences in the eras.

[Pedro Reyes]

Welcome to the forum, and to woodworking I guess.

I was going to say Ebay, and recommend maybe a #5 as a first purchase. You should get an OK one for less than $25. Lot's of info on vintages, but most people believe Type 9 thru Type 12 are among the best when it comes to Stanley planes. I stay clear from anything made after WWII, just me.

I also recommend you Google all these and read some info which may help you buy your plane

"Patrick's Blood and Gore" lots of info.
"Plane Dating" <--- yes, like that, I think the site is hyperkitten, this will help you date a plane you see online.
"Brass City Records" Walt I believe is the gentleman's name, has some nice planes at OK prices.

A great book is Garret Hack's "Handplane Book"

I am the kind of guy who enjoys fettling an old plane (working on it to bring it to good working order), so take my advice with that in mind. I also replace my blades with LN or Hock blades (add $$), so just my $0.02

have fun on the way down this slope.

/p

[Jim Koepke]

Matthew,

Welcome to the Creek and watch out, the slope of hand tool ownership and usage is very slippery.

I have bought many of my planes through eBay. It takes time and patience.

I have also found them at swap meets and antique shops. If you are going to try to get them at yard and garage sales, get there early and ask. That is how all those being sold on ebay are snatched up by the early birds.

In my area there is a person that occasionally runs an ad in the local classified free paper to buy tools.

If you have a printer, print up a few cards saying you are looking for old hand tools. Then you can give these to people who you feel may be of a help. Don't just give them to everyone who wants one to use for cleaning their teeth.

Also, do an advanced search on ebay and look at "completed listings" for the different planes you are considering. This will give you an idea of not only the range of prices, but why some sell for more than others. There are a few factors working to determine final prices. Condition means a lot, but if it is not listed so everyone interested can find it, the close will not be as high as if everyone interested found it. The eBay search engine is strange at times. If you are searching for a "Stanley #4" it may not show one listed as a "Stanley 4" or a Stanley No. 4". A search on "Stanley 4" should show all of them, though sometimes will miss "Stanley #4". It will also show up any listing that has the word Stanley and a 4 in the title.

With a Macintosh, it is easy to enlarge pictures to see details. I am sure there is also a way to do this with a PC.

Prices for a good Stanley/Bailey #4 are all over the place. The more you have to do, the less it should cost. If you are patient and search yard sales and such, you should be able to get down to $5 or $10. The problem with yard sales and such is they are often planes made in the 1950s or later, have rust damage that needs a new blade and the casting from that vintage is not that good anyway. The most important parts to be in good condition is the handles. Getting replacement wood can often cost more than a whole plane. If I find a plane with good wood or even sometimes cracked wood, I will buy it if the price is low even if it looks like everything else on the plane is headed for land fill. This of course only applies to the rosewood handles. I will not buy a plane with the newer hardwood handles.

If you want one that works straight out of the box, then a little more for a starting price. I saw one on ebay recently that the person cleaned up and tuned up real nice go for $70. More work than I want to do for $70. I have one I am working on now that would need new paint and finish on the wood to look as nice. I feel like I have already put too much work into it. Then the parts it needed. Fixing old planes has to be for fun, there certainly isn't a lot of profit in it. The #4s are all over the place. They keep showing up when I have money in my pocket.

Check some of the threads from the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs thread at the top of the Neanderthal Haven conference > http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=103805

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=104945 < A lot of links to information about hand planes, including how to determine their date of manufacture.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=116419 < Pictures of things to look for when buying a hand plane. Surely there are things not covered, but this is kind of the basics.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=114373 < This is the documentation of my restoration of a rusty old train wreck of a plane. This is a procedure that is not difficult, but for some it might be getting in over your head.

There are also a lot of other good things to read in the quest for hand plane knowledge.

Finally, remember that my opinion about only wanting Stanley/Bailey planes made before the 1930s is just my opinion. Others have found satisfaction with newer models.

jim

[David Turner]

Matthew:

There are many vintage tools around you. Try Southeast Michigan Woodworkers club site at www.semiww.org/forum/ and look through the classified section. There are a bunch of good planes for sale right now. I just bought a Stanley #45 with blades from the site/forum member. The "Galoots" section section of the club meets in Ann Arbor the first thursday of every month and they are hand tools only. The entire group (Galoots and power tool) meets the 3rd Thursday of each month just South of Ann Arbor off Michigan Ave at a members shop.

David Turner
Plymouth, Mi

[David Gendron]

The suggestions above are all good one, I would had to have a look at these,
http://www.thebestthings.com/index.html, http://www.jimbodetools.com/, I realy like the service of both these dealers. there price can be a little higher than ebay but you are sure of what you get, like with Walt, espacialy if you can talk to them!
The most comon planes, would be the #4, #5,#6 from Stanley and they will also be the cheepest to get!!
Good luck , welcom to the slope...

[Michael Faurot]

I'd like to start using vintage hand tools, but I'm not sure where to come across them. [...] I've looked on eBay, but I think some of those people are out of their mind on the pricing.

There are some over priced things on eBay, some items are bargains, some are priced just right. What I've found to be helpful, for dealing with and finding hand tools on eBay, are the following:



I limit my searches to just what's available as a "buy it now" option. I don't like the auctions, as I'd rather just buy it when I find something I want, rather than having to deal with bidding, being outbid, etc. This also makes it possible to compare prices (see next time).
Compare the price of what you want to buy from eBay with the cost of a similar or better new item. Also factor in whether the item you want to buy is going to need major or minor restoration work. If the eBay item is as much, or nearly as much, as a new item--skip it. If the eBay item is less than the new item, then just ask yourself, "Is that a price I want to pay?" Finally, keep in mind what Christopher Schwarz has said about this:



Hi. I'm a long-time reader and a first-time caller. I really want to start using handplanes in my work. I've been looking at some of the premium handplanes from Veritas and Lie-Nielsen and wow! I can't afford that. Could you tell me where I could get some planes that are just as good as those but cost far less?

— B. Ginner, Poor, Tenn. (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=poor&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=77.694388,131.835938&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Poor,+Hardeman,+Tennessee&ll=35.037305,-88.893685&spn=0.021223,0.032187&z=15&iwloc=A)

Mr. Ginner,

Thanks for your letter. Those planes are available at the same store that sells unicorns that fart cupcakes.

Sincerely, A Grumpy Editor


A final thought, if you're really strapped for cash, is to look at the transitional planes (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan4.htm). Most of the ones being sold on eBay are pretty inexpensive.

[James Taglienti]

I recommend auctions. find a good auction website with some photos and show up early. michigan and the surrounding areas has plenty of good auctions coming up soon!

[Matthew Bobek]

Thank you to all of you who have posted. I have gone through many of the links and found them all to be helpful. This is the kind of direction I was looking for and I appreciate it very much. One other question... If I were to buy one new plane, in addition to a block plane... would the Veritas low angle jack plane or the LN #5 (bevel down) be a better option? I know jack planes can be set up to do most tasks on small projects, which are what I'm looking to build now. I know this is somewhat of a hot debate, but I'm a newbie, so what's best?

[Jim Koepke]

Thank you to all of you who have posted. I have gone through many of the links and found them all to be helpful. This is the kind of direction I was looking for and I appreciate it very much. One other question... If I were to buy one new plane, in addition to a block plane... would the Veritas low angle jack plane or the LN #5 (bevel down) be a better option? I know jack planes can be set up to do most tasks on small projects, which are what I'm looking to build now. I know this is somewhat of a hot debate, but I'm a newbie, so what's best?

The choice of which plane is likely going to end up being more opinion than anything else. It will also depend on the kind of woods you use. I use pine for a lot of things, it is the cheap wood out here. Stanley/Bailey planes work fine for most of the work.

I do not have a lot of experience with the low angle planes other than block planes. I plan to be buying one soon mostly for the purpose of shooting end grain.

If it is at all possible, I would try to get to a tool event or other get together where you can actually get some hands on time with the tools you are considering.

For me, in about 3 weeks there will be a show in Portland, OR where my plan is to try out the Lie-Nielsen low angle jack plane. Lee Valley has a whole stable of bevel up planes that some like for blade interchangeability.

It all depends on the direction you want to go. My choice was to put together a set of old Stanley/Bailey planes. They work fairly well for me. I have found a few woods that are hard to tame. Usually a sharper blade and a very fine cut can get them to behave.

Others are sure to chime in with their thoughts.

jim

[James Taglienti]

Well, i don't have either, matthew... but i can remind you that a #5 jack plane is only the "jack of all trades" when it's the only one you've got- when you get more planes the 5 will become a waste hogger as opposed to a smoother- you could probably get away with a vintage one. The bevel up planes have always interested me, they look so versatile, with their different irons and pitches and stuff, but the lack of a chipbreaker really sets me off... i know they aren't supposed to need one, but i'm not convinced.

[Zach England]

My best luck has been posting a "WTB" ad here in the classifieds. I have gotten several nice planes and other tools this way.

When I buy esoteric things like woodworking tools or audio gear (my other money vacuole) I like to buy from other enthusiasts, even if it is sight-unseen, because I figure they have the same interest I do and are likely to give the best deal and accurately represent what they are selling. I am yet to get a bad deal buying from perfect strangers on the other side of the country (or world in some cases), and I have bought items costing several hundreds of dollars, and probably into the thousands in some cases that I have selectively forgotten.

[Mike Olson]

I have found the best way is looking in Craigs list under Garage sales. Look for any estate sales listed there. Even if they don't have tools listed, you really only want to find those Estate Sales companies web sites to book mark. Check their sites every Wednesday as Estate sales are usually Friday & Saturday.

Now the most important part is to go on the first day as early as you can. I have to go during my lunch break but since your a college student you may be able to get there earlier. I find it very frustrating that most of the good tools get purchased early by people looking to re-sell them on ebay, flea markets, and antique stores.:mad:

[Sam Takeuchi]

If you have no other planes and on a budget, yet, considering low angle jack, I think that money has better way to be spent. For the price of low angle jack, you can buy a couple of already tuned up vintage planes. Low angle planes works slightly differently compare to bevel down planes, but what's important is what the user can do with those planes. Bevel up planes aren't better. Neither bevel down planes. What either type of planes can do is really up to the user. For you, I think it's better to go with a couple of tuned up vintage planes for your projects, develop your method of work and technique. Having a couple of planes for different tasks is more important than a single jack. Jack plane can do many things, but depending on the size of your project, it can be too small or too large. One day when you do different projects and have money to buy bevel up planes, do that. If you can't decide which one to go for, tell us what you are thinking about making. We can suggest appropriately sized planes for you to start out with.

[Jim Crammond]

Mathew,

I'd echo what David Turner said, the Southeast Michigan Woodworkers group would be very helpful and start you out in the right direction. I'm sure that the members would be a good source of advice and possibly some tools at good prices.

Although this isn't a good time of year for flea markets, there is one in Armada on the weekends(though they may be closed for the winter) and one in Flat Rock in May and October that usually have tools. There is also a flea market south of Detroit Metro on Middlebelt, but that is more hit and miss as far as tools are concerned.

Sometimes you can find tools at auctions. Auction Zip is a good place to look online for local auctions that advertise tools.

If you try the auction, flea market, garage sale route, be prepared to invest some time and expect more misses than hits.

Jim Crammond

[Matthew Bobek]

Thanks again for all the responses. My goal is to obtain a #4,5, and 7 stanley bailey planes, possibly a #6, and a block plane. I plan on mainly working with cherry, pine, poplar, and oak, possibly some maple or walnut in small amounts. As far as projects go my plan is to build small end tables/coffee tables and other small projects. Basically what you can find in popwood and woodworking magazine, just the simpler projects though, those that focus on skill building, particularly joinery. I'd like to learn how to do all the joinery by hand and not with a router, in addition to the bench plane system obviously. I would much rather spend the money to obtain a set of working vintage planes, than a fortune on brand new.

[David Keller NC]

Mathew - One route not yet mentioned is to join the MWTCA and go to a couple of events. There will literally be thousands of used/vintage planes that you can pick up and examine, and often pay less than the equivalent on e-bay.

Not only that, you will meet folks from your area that will give you a lot of good advice. And that, believe it or not, will be worth waaayyyy over the price of a year's membership to the MWTCA (Mid-West Tool Collector's Association). The MWTCA isn't just for folks that only collect tools.

Your plane list is a good one, though I'd change it slightly to include a #6 and a #7 as your first purchases, followed by a #3, #4 or a #4-1/2 as funds allow. Specifically, the #6 will serve as your roughing plane, to be ground with a large curve on the blade and meant to hog off wood quickly. The #7 will be your jointer, set up with a much finer mouth and considerably less curve - this will straighten out warped/twisted lumber and take out the hollows left by the #6. The #3, #4 or #4-1/2 is your smoother and will prep wood surfaces for a finish. You can build almost anything you can think of with these 3 planes, though you will need additional, specialized joinery planes to substitute for a router/table saw if you're so inclined.

BUT - you can't use any of these tools effectively without a workbench. Buy your #6 and #7, a piece of glass, some sandpaper and a leather strop for sharpening, and Christopher Schwarz' book "Workbenches: From Theory and Design to Construction and Use". It will be the best $25 or so that you've ever spent, and will save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

[Joel Goodman]

Even if you have no interest in buying a Lie Nielsen I would look on their website site for one of their hand tool events. They have them all over the country and if there is one near you go. Usually LN and several other makers attend and they are free. You can get lots of tips, a sharpening lesson, and try any LN plane you like. It is invaluable to understand what a properly working plane feels like. If you go with an old plane you'll know what you're aiming at. I've had good luck with Sandy Moss (Google him) but I see he hasn't much in stock at present. I have a bunch of planes but I do like my LN low angle jack (BU) and my Stanley type 15 #7 jointer best, along with a LN low angle block.

[Matthew Bobek]

Thanks for the additional info. I actually own Christopher Schwarz's workbenches book and it has provided me with a lot of information. I also picked up Handplane Essentials and his new hand plane dvd. So, now it's time to actually get my hands on some planes so I can get to work. Thanks to everyone who has commented.

[Richard Niemiec]

Do check out the classifieds below and the swap and sell on Woodnet; many vintage planes are available and the sellers generally have given the once over to the planes so you know what you are getting, as opposed to an ebay, or making some plane buying 'virgin' mistakes buying them in the 'wild' at fleas or swap meets. YMMV.