Just Plane Ignorant

[Mike Scoggins]

OK—let me start by saying I am not a neander. I do not own any hand planes and only have a few tools that can legitimately be included in the neander category (e.g. chisels). But, the idea of using hand planes for smoothing/scraping/trimming is appealing to me. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll keep my jointer and planer, but the hand planes certainly seem to have a niche of their own. I’ve sort of watched from the sidelines as Tyler has seemed to get too close to the edge of the slippery slope; looks like there may be no saving him. I have at least seen/handled the LN planes at the woodworking shows before and have read a little bit about planes, but openly admit my ignorance about hand planes in general, and have never experienced the pleasure I read about of the sound/feel of the thin shavings rolling off of the blade of the hand plane.

My question is whether or not purchasing a "cheap" plane just "to test the waters" is really a waste? I recently saw the Rockler/Groz hand planes which don’t look bad in a picture, but that’s not saying much.

[URL=http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=11136]

Is buying a “cheap” plane of this or similar variety really just a waste? Is this a classic case of “you get what you pay for” or is it reasonable to expect that if one will spend the time to tune a “cheap” plane, one will get good results? I have no doubt that the LN and LV planes would be a pleasure to use, but they sure are expensive for somebody just wanting to test the waters a bit.

Thanks for your help/advice in advance.

Mike

[Louis Bois]

Mike, rather than buying a cheap "new" plane, why not consider an older plane instead?!? They can be had for the same price (or much less $$$) than the new cheapies and are much better quality.

Consider a Record or Stanley #4 or #5 as a good starter...they're fairly common and many guys on this site (or others like it) could probably sell you a decent one. I've seen the quality of low cost new planes...and although they could easily be tuned to perform well, I still think you'd be better off with an "oldie"!

Bugbear often has great refurbs on his site (he works miracles on 'em)...haven't got the link handy, but I'm sure someone else will fill you in.

Cheers,

[Richard Gillespie]

Mike, unless you want spend some serious money, don't buy modern planes. The low end models require too much fussing to bring them up to speed. In some cases even that is problematic.

You can go up on Ebay and buy a good 50 year old or older #4 Stanley, or #9 Miller Falls for $20 or less plus about $10 shipping. Though you'll probably have to clean them, sharpen and tune you'll end up with a better plane.

I have over 36 CI planes on hand. If you're interested, I've been thinking of downsizing. I have several #4 & #5's Stanley plus some other lessor known brands. Most of mine have been tuned and sharpened. If you are interested PM me at possumpoint@hotmail.com

[Pam Niedermayer]

I'd recommend getting the LV or LN low angle jack or smoother, just start playing to see how you like it. They're capable of performing many tasks, so will give you a real taste of what's possible. And it you don't like hand planing, which is highly unlikely, you can always return it (in the case of LV) or sell it on ebay without losing too many dollars. Often LN planes go for more than retail on the bay. That is, a real good plane holds its value.

Pam

[Tyler Howell]

Hey Mike,
I was just thinking of the joys, bunged knuckles, & rights of passage learning to fettle my flea market planes. I would recommend a garage sale special and enroll in a class or have a Traditional WW take you through the tune-up process. The first night we spent almost the entire class looking at tools dissecting them and what makes some old ones good, new ones bad and the junk, junk.
To jump behind the wheel of a LV or LN is like a student driver climbing into a Vet. There's lots of good stuff there that can overwhelm the driver.

When I teach skiing or inline skating I strongly recommend the good entry level equipment. It is made to facilitate learning at a minimal investment. The high performance skis, and skates are unforgiving and demand the skill, strength & knowledge of an experienced skier/skater. A Hi Per ski can frustrate the beginner.

This is contrary to the adage of " buy the best tool you can afford". I see a lot of best skis in ski swaps & sales, a discouraged owner didn't like the sport, it's too hard, no fun........
PS: I know I saved a lot of relationships by intervening when a SO would try to teach there better half to ski. A skill can be discovered on your own and from help of others. Some things go best under the direction of a pro.

[Pam Niedermayer]

[QUOTE=Tyler Howell]Hey Mike,
...To jump behind the wheel of a LV or LN is like a student driver climbing into a Vet. There's lots of good stuff there that can overwhelm the driver.

Often it's more encouraging to use a first plane that works right out of the box. In the case of skis and stuff, you can always rent equipment. In the case of planes, if you have a friend who uses, you can always borrow, visit his/her shop and get some advice. But what do you do if you know nothing and get an old botched up plane. If there are classes such as you are taking, that's OK, you've got a guide or two; but if not, it can seem pretty hopeless at times.

Pam

[Tom LaRussa]

OK—let me start by saying I am not a neander.
Don't worry, so far as I know there are no actual "neanders" on SMC. Most of us are what I call "Krenovians" after James Krenov, who is probably the world's greatest advocate of using hand tools when appropriate, i.e., when they do a better job, such as when doing fit and finish and the like.



My question is whether or not purchasing a "cheap" plane just "to test the waters" is really a waste?
Cheap planes are a waste.

Old planes are a bargain -- especially for you!

Why?

Because you live in Katy, Tx, home of Planewood, which is the business name of Mike Taylor, a retired computer dude who fixes up old planes to earn pocket money. For between $15 and $40 (depending on size) you get:

Stripping of the old paint.
Electrolysis of the plane body and frog.
Scrubbing with a Scotch Brite pad and hot soapy water.
Re-japanning plane body and frog using the original formula Pontypool Asphaltum.
Baking to 300 degrees.
Prices include cleaning and polishing all small metal parts.
Nickel plating will be polished IF it is in good condition.
For a few bucks extra he'll polish the knob and tote, (that's the front and back handle), and/or square the blade and grind the initial bevel.

If you really want to go whole-hog he'll replace the knob and tote with new ones he makes himself from your choice of woods -- from walnut to Brazilian rosewood or Cocobolo.

And you won't even have to pay for shipping!

Check him out:

Planewood % Mike Taylor
20018 Doherty Circle
Katy TX 77449
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mike_in_katy/PlaneWood/Default.htm

[Bob Smalser]

OK—let me start by saying I am not a neander...

OK.....and let me start by saying that I am not a neander, although I own and use all manner of hand tools every working day.

They are there only because they do some things...and not just fit and finish...that my power tools don't do. The Sweep Brace thread over on the General Woodworking forum is an excellent example. The tool that gets used in my shop is the tool that does the job most efficiently...so all those large machines also get a daily workout.

I'd recommend you buy yourself a 20-dollar Stanley #3 or #4 of prewar vintage and attempt to tune it yourself using the guidelines posted below. You won't be out much, and if you are successful, then you have a start on your hand plane set. If you find you can't make it work, then you might either go get some coaching or buy yourself a more expensive modern plane that does work well out of the box as Pam suggests and learn why that one works and yours doesn't.

https://home.comcast.net/%7Erexmill/planes101/planes101.htm

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Smalser_on_RehabbingPlanes.htm

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Smalser_on_RehabbingWoodenPlanes.htm

[Robert Tarr]

Just another thought to the already great tips giving here. I think you should start with a block plane. Easy to tune and you will always use it (even if you don't enjoy using the other planes.) I would suggest the low angle version as you can sharpen it to whatever effective cutting angle you would like.

The two most important considerations for "hand tool" work (at least in my mind) are a good sharpening system and a good sturdy bench....without these two things this style of work will be harder, if not impossible and very frustrating.

Let us know what you decide.

Robert

[Mike Scoggins]

Louis/Richard,

Thanks for the advice concerning old versus new. I suspected this might be the general response, but wasn't sure.

Pam,

Thanks for your perspective of being able to "drive it out of the box." I can see the the value of getting that "immediate" feedback of how things are supposed to work when launching into a new area such has hand planes.

Tyler,

Thanks for the "learn as you are going" advice. Looking over the responses and checking out the links of rehabbing old planes shows that there's obviously some work involved (no surprise there), but it appears to be really satisfying work. I like the idea of taking something of no function/value (in it's current state) and turning it into a useful tool.

Tom,

Thanks for the tip about Mike in Katy! It's amazing what you find in your own backyard sometimes. It's also a small world; turns out he retired from the same company I work for (post-buyout).

Bob,


The tool that gets used in my shop is the tool that does the job most efficiently...so all those large machines also get a daily workout.

...and Tom,


Most of us are what I call "Krenovians" after James Krenov, who is probably the world's greatest advocate of using hand tools when appropriate, i.e., when they do a better job, such as when doing fit and finish and the like.

This makes a lot of sense and describes my perspective to a "T."

Bob,

Thanks for the great links. I like seeing the work of those that know how to do it.

Robert,

Thanks for the tip on maybe the best plane to start with.

All,

I appreciate all of your advice. I got some great tips here and have a much better idea on how to proceed. Thanks again!

Mike

[Tyler Howell]

And I thank you Mike!

I always say the only dumb question is the one that isn't asked. I have benefited greatly form the responses here and also by verbalizing my own thoughts on skill development and the learning process.:cool: