The amazing Grizzly

[Van Huskey]

Jeff Hallum posted a link to view old American Woodworker magazines online for free so I started to browse the first one that popped up was a Dec 1999 issue and what manufacturer do you think had the first inside page ads? Yep, Grizzly. What shocked me was most everything they had listed in the two page ad you could buy today for the SAME price (although shipping is a little more today). This is really shocking, take a look at the price of PM and Delta over that same 10 years. The Bear is truely the Walmart of tool pricing, whether you like 'em or not you more than likely end up shopping there whether you admit it or not.

PS like Walmart and the Bear

http://books.google.ca/books?id=1vkDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Jim O'Dell]

Yes, I noticed that right after seeing what year the mags were. Pretty interesting! Jim.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jeff Hallum posted a link to view old American Woodworker magazines online for free so I started to browse the first one that popped up was a Dec 1999 issue and what manufacturer do you think had the first inside page ads? Yep, Grizzly. What shocked me was most everything they had listed in the two page ad you could buy today for the SAME price (although shipping is a little more today). This is really shocking, take a look at the price of PM and Delta over that same 10 years. The Bear is truely the Walmart of tool pricing, whether you like 'em or not you more than likely end up shopping there whether you admit it or not.

PS like Walmart and the Bear

http://books.google.ca/books?id=1vkDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Hi, This is typical of almost all tool purchases, whether they're hand or electric powered.

My FIL is a retired cabinet maker, and his hand tools such as planes chisels etc, cost him far more hours of pay than they do now.

I recently sold a General jointer and planer for the same numerical value I paid for them over a decade ago.

Some tools have become inexpensive, some have become cheap, the trick is to be able to distinguish the difference.

That said, being Canadian I don't shop at Grizzly or Wall Mart..........Regards, Rod.

[Van Huskey]

Hi, This is typical of almost all tool purchases, whether they're hand or electric powered.



That said, being Canadian I don't shop at Grizzly or Wall Mart..........Regards, Rod.


I agree over a long perod of time but over the last 10 years or so there has been a pretty drastic rise in prices with many of the upper brands, PM, General, Jet and the quality Delta stuff. I still think Grizzly is amazing since their prices are almost exactly what they were 10 years ago and I would argue there quality has gone UP in that 10 years. Point being I think they are swimming upstream.

[Greg Wittler]

I was just looking at a Tool Crib catalog from 2001 that I found in a box of old paperwork yesterday and I was noticing that a 5hp Delta Ts Made in the USA was $1899 not to mention there were many more seemingly good bargains if it was from 2010 instead of 2001.

Greg

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I would argue there quality has gone UP in that 10 years. Point being I think they are swimming upstream.

Van,

I bought my first piece of Grizzly equipment 5 or 6 months ago. It is a sander the cheapest stationary tool I have in my shop. I think it is good quality for the dollars spent.

I have talked to several folks who were quite dissatisfied with the quality of Grizzly products a decade or more ago...and are quite surprised at the improvements they've made in that time.

I will say...I think Grizzly seems to swim upstream quite well though!:D

[Van Huskey]

I was just looking at a Tool Crib catalog from 2001 that I found in a box of old paperwork yesterday and I was noticing that a 5hp Delta Ts Made in the USA was $1899 not to mention there were many more seemingly good bargains if it was from 2010 instead of 2001.

Greg


Consider the 3hp Uni "kinda" made in America is a mere $3,200 today well over a 50% increase in those 9 years, admittedly it is a full on redesign but still.

[Van Huskey]

Van,

I bought my first piece of Grizzly equipment 5 or 6 months ago. It is a sander the cheapest stationary tool I have in my shop. I think it is good quality for the dollars spent.

I have talked to several folks who were quite dissatisfied with the quality of Grizzly products a decade or more ago...and are quite surprised at the improvements they've made in that time.

I will say...I think Grizzly seems to swim upstream quite well though!:D

That is what strikes me. I am a Powermatic guy, love their stuff but over the last 10 years their prices have soared and although most of ther machines are still very high quality they are NOT what they used to be. I jsut think Grizzly is amazing how they have improved quality to markedly and keept their prices level, this from a guy that owns no Grizzly and really isn't looking at any of their machines seriously except maybe a DC when I get my new shop finished.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

In 1989 (or around there), I bought a Delta Unisaw with the Jet-Lock fence for $1,400 and that was the best price after shopping around.

The fence was absolutely junk and quite dangerous. I ended up buying an Excalibur fence for another $400. Also, the Unisaw did not come with a motor cover or dado insert plate...so add another $100. Also, another $50 in supplies to build a side extension table with legs. Grand total = $1,950.

Today, I could do much, much better for $1,950. Keep in mind that $1,950 in 1989 dollars is probably equivalent to ~$3,200 to $3,500 today. That is, I could buy two Grizzly cabinet saws today.

-Jeff :)

[Stephen Edwards]

My brother and I were having a conversation the other day, comparing Grizz machine purchases that he made several years ago to purchases that I've made recently. In one instance, a jointer, I actually got a nicer jointer with more features for less money than he did 10 years ago.

Like 'em or not (I do), Grizzly has a winning business model. I'd venture to say that there are many tens of thousands of woodworkers today with better machines in their shops than there would be if Grizz wasn't around.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I'd venture to say that there are many tens of thousands of woodworkers today with better machines in their shops than there would be if Grizz wasn't around.

I agree with you. I believed Grizzly forced the once innovative US tool manufacturers to once again compete on innovation since they could not on cost.

However, now I'm seeing innovation as well as value from Grizzly. A lot of their machinery designs appear to be unique.

It's no secret. Competition is good for the consumer.

-Jeff :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Today, I could do much, much better for $1,950. Keep in mind that $1,950 in 1989 dollars is probably equivalent to ~$3,200 to $3,500 today. That is, I could buy two Grizzly cabinet saws today.

-Jeff :)

Or a made in Canada General saw.

So if you're correct on the dollar value (which you proably are), the General hasn't gone up in price at all.

Regards, Rod.

[David Prince]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Don't let Grizzly know that their prices are the same as 1999. Someone maybe forgot to keep up with inflation. We don't need to remind them!;)

[Dave Lehnert]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Don't let Grizzly know that their prices are the same as 1999. Someone maybe forgot to keep up with inflation. We don't need to remind them!;)

Well I don't think we should give Grizzly a total pass. Example

G4814 Mortising Machine 2004 price $1,695
2008 price $2,195
2010 price $2,595 :eek:

G0448 Mortising Machine 2008 $959
2010 $1,395

G01026 shaper 2008 $895
2010 $1,095

I just noticed the higher pricing on the mortising machine because today I was just looking to upgrade my bench top unit. I don't mean to pick on grizzly, Overall they have keep prices low for what seems to be better upgraded tools. Amazing prices on Grizzly cabinet saws with new features.
If you look at the old JET or Grizzly they look to be just basic equipment sent over from China. Now they are built with features that we would want.

Anyone know why Mortising machines have gone up in price so much? Was it not long ago that a JET floor unit could be had on deal for $499 but now it's $1000? Looks like all brands have seen a bigger increase than other tools like band and table saws.

[Jason Rutkowski]

Well I don't think we should give Grizzly a total pass.


I agree.

I was going to order a G0651 table saw this month and realized the price jumped up $200 since last years (2009) catalog. :confused::confused:

[scott spencer]

How about that North American made General 350 for $1699? :)

[Ben Franz]

I first bought from Grizzly in 1988/89. The quality was pretty much 2nd rate, at best. I still have the floor model DP and it serves it's purpose. The 2 HP double bag DC was retired last year - it did the job but was pretty badly made. Lots of small accessories were the same - not very well made. In contrast, over the last 2-3 years, I've been much more impressed by the Grizz. Machinery and smaller tools are much higher quality on average - still not top of the line but very respectable and good value. Now, if you want to talk about their packaging for small items.....

As an aside, I bought a ton (or 2-3 tons?) of machinery from Acme Electric before they were absorbed by Amazon and also Tool Crib (Four Corners HW) - those places had very aggressive pricing, free shipping and IIRC decent customer service.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Ben,
I agree with your post. There were really only two levels of quality back then for the home shop. First was Powermatic and Delta. Second, by quite a distance was the Asian imports and Sears Craftsman. There were also European offerings like Laguna, MiniMax, Hammer and Felder, but they were very uncommon in the homeshop likely due to cost and market reach.

The Asian imports offered 20 years ago sometimes were a good value, but often with quality troubles and performance issues. There were a lot of importers too: Jet, Grizzly, Wilke, Total Shop, AMT, Transpower, Lobo, Reliant, Enlon, Star, just to name a few. Almost all of them are gone now, but the lone survivors really improved their products both in quality and innovation.

If I had to do it all over again using the late 1980s offerings, I would have went with either Delta or Powermatic. Today, I would have no issues with any of the other surviving brands. So, I would base my decision on the particular machine versus brand.

Overall, I think machinery selection today is at an apex. Lots and lots of good choices.

-Jeff :)