Sixth Segmented Bowl - Still not there

[Bill Bulloch]

Well, here is my sixth attempt at Segmenting. As you can see, I am still not there yet, but am getting gooder.

This is: Birch, Bloodwood and Walnut. It is 10 1/2 inches in Diameter and 6 inches high.

I noticed that the Birch does not do as well as Hard Maple. Note that in the close up the seams seem to tear out when turned. Guess that is why it cost less. Also, note that in the inside view, that rings 3 and 4 are not staggered. I don't know how I did that; I was being so careful. Also, note that every other piece of my walnut ring is a little off. Don't know how that happened either, they looked good before the glue up.

The bottom is 3 1/2 inches diameter. Rather that use a solid piece, as has been suggested (I'm going to try that in a later piece), I thought I would try a different approach. I glued up a 3/4 inch piece, then split it. I then added a 1 1/2 inch plug, staggered it, then reglued it. I don't know if this is any better than a single segmented piece, but thought I would try it. What-the-hell, after all, this is a learning process.

What ya think???

[Robert McGowen]

Hi,

On the plus side, your over-all form is improving. I also see that you realized that you needed to cut your walnut that is between the bloodwood so that the orientation is still end-grain to end-grain between the pieces.

A couple of questions.

Are you sanding your segments before gluing them together? You might get a better fit between segments if you are not sanding them now.

For all of the work that you did on the bottom, it probably won't work in the long run. You need to either float the plug between two rings (best) or just use a solid piece of wood. The idea is that the wood has to have somewhere to move to and having the plug in the middle of the segments just eliminates anywhere that the wood can move to. This causes it to separate at the glue joints or split.

The only way that I can figure out that you did the thin walnut rings and have them come out the way that they did is if you glued the walnut to the birch and THEN cut the segments. This would be very hard to keep aligned. The reason that it probably looked good during the glue up is fairly simple. You are just looking at the outside edge during glue-up. The joint could be WAY off from outside to inside, but would look just fine from the outside point where they meet. The problem is that you turn off this outside layer and see what was inside the wood that you could not previously see. Make sure that you line up the joint on both the outside of the ring and also the inside of the ring to avoid this. You might also try making a regular sized walnut ring, gluing it on the vase, and then either splitting it so that you have a second thin ring or just cutting it down to size. Either way, all of the walnut will be lined up and the next ring is just glued to it. You can also alternate your rings doing it this way, instead of having them stacked in line with each other, like you have it now.

I hope that this helps and good luck on your next project!

[Dave Carey]

Bill,
I really like the shape of this one. Mine tend to come out looking like basketballs, ie way too round. Also like the contrast between the bloodwood, walnut and lighter color wood. Agree that the birch let you down; as you say maple or possibly ash (though that can be problematic as well) would still give you a nice contrast. Look forward to seeing the next one!

[Quinn McCarthy]

Looking good Bill.

I am on my 11th or 12 th. There is quite a learning curve to come up. The guys who have been at it for a while give me a target to shoot for.

Keep up the good work.

Quinn

[Mark Hubl]

Bill,

The vessel looks good. Great shape. Nice work, I think that you are coming along well.

[Walt Helms]

Bill;

In my experience...when I do my segmented rings, I glue up the rings, and when dry, run them through the drum sander. The sander makes the joints where the segments meet even.

I do the same with the thinner rings...for a 1/4" ring, I glue up, let dry and run through the sander.

From my experience, after glue up and when dry, I mount on the lathe and turn the top of the *new* ring flat...this guarantees a flat glue-up for the next ring.

How are you stacking/aligning the rings during glue-up?

[Brian Effinger]

Beautiful Bill. The color combination is outstanding. :)

[Bill Bulloch]

Robert, I appreciate your imput. Maybe with your (and others) good advise, I'll be able to get the basics on this segmenting down.

In answer to some of your questions:

1. "Are you sanding your segments before gluing them together"? Yes, and the joints between the segments looked good.

2. I understand what you are saying about the bottom. I plan on using a solid piece on small bottoms and I have Malcomb's DVD which shows how to do a floating bottom and plan on trying that once I get beyond the basics. I saw the bottom done like this one on another site, it looked easy, so I thought I would give it a try.

3. "The only way that I can figure out that you did the thin walnut rings and have them come out the way that they did is if you glued the walnut to the birch and THEN cut the segments." Yes, that is the way I did it. In order to cut that sharp curve the ring had to be three inches deep. Turning that could have given me the results you decribe.

4. "You might also try making a regular sized walnut ring, gluing it on the vase, and then either splitting it so that you have a second thin ring or just cutting it down to size". This sounds good, I'll give it a try.

Thanks

[Bill Bulloch]

If only I had a Drum Sander......Maybe later this year, the good Wife willing.

"How are you stacking/aligning the rings during glue-up? I do it on the lathe. First I flatten the ring on the lathe, then put it on a Cole Jaw in the tail stock and glue it to the vessal. When that dries, I flatten it and repeat the process. The rings are coming out good and centered.

I tried flattening them on the planner, but it breaks the ring apart about every other time no matter how small a cut I make. That got old fast.

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated .

[Robert McGowen]

If only I had a Drum Sander......Maybe later this year, the good Wife willing.



Bill,

You said in an earlier post that you were sanding your segments before gluing. What type of sander are you using to do that?

[Bill Bulloch]

Bill,

You said in an earlier post that you were sanding your segments before gluing. What type of sander are you using to do that?


I have a small disc sander and a sanding disc for my table saw. I like the sanding disc for the table saw best and that is what I use most. I use the disc sander only when I can't justify the time to set up the table saw. I do it by hand, though. I haven't made a jig yet. But, by hand seems to work well with a light touch.

I cut all my segments, then set up the sanding disc on the table saw and sand them all at once -- Love that wood flower up my nose; the fiber keeps me regular.

[Robert McGowen]

I have a small disc sander and a sanding disc for my table saw. I like the sanding disc for the table saw best and that is what I use most. I use the disc sander only when I can't justify the time to set up the table saw. I do it by hand, though. I haven't made a jig yet. But, by hand seems to work well with a light touch.

I cut all my segments, then set up the sanding disc on the table saw and sand them all at once -- Love that wood flower up my nose; the fiber keeps me regular.

Just a thought before you go buttering up the wife....... :rolleyes:

I have a 12" disc sander and a drum sander. I have made quite a few segmented pieces and while the drum sander has it's moments, I hardly ever use it. I use the 12" disc sander to sand the ends of the segments and also to flatten the rings. It will flatten a ring in just a few seconds and does not leave dips in the ring like a drum sander can. (just make sure you do not flatten the ends of your fingers....DAMHIKT :eek:) Everyone has their own way and you will get many different opinions, I am just letting you know that in my opinion, if you get a 12" disc sander, then everything else would be a luxury. Just a thought......

[Bill Bulloch]

Just a thought before you go buttering up the wife....... :rolleyes:

I have a 12" disc sander and a drum sander. I have made quite a few segmented pieces and while the drum sander has it's moments, I hardly ever use it. I use the 12" disc sander to sand the ends of the segments and also to flatten the rings. It will flatten a ring in just a few seconds and does not leave dips in the ring like a drum sander can. (just make sure you do not flatten the ends of your fingers....DAMHIKT :eek:) Everyone has their own way and you will get many different opinions, I am just letting you know that in my opinion, if you get a 12" disc sander, then everything else would be a luxury. Just a thought......


Glan to hear that. As a-mather-of-fact a 12 inch disc sander is on the list for my next purchase. I have been trying to trade a Jet 1014 for one, but haven't found any takers yet. I wonder if the Harbor Fright 12 incher is worth the 129 bucks they want for it? Ofcouse, they will have it on sell before to long.

[Baxter Smith]

Maybe the joints aren't perfect but its still a very pretty piece. I like the combination of colors.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Bill looks pretty good to me. I tried one just to say I did one. Wasn't bad but wasn't good either.

[Roland Martin]

Nice form & color combinations Bill. I'm about to start learning segmented turning myself, and see that there is much to learn. Thanks for all you guys sharing all your thoughts and experiences, this is such a great place to pick up tips & tricks.