Random Orbit Sanders - ?

[Mike Rees]

Hey Gang,

My next purchase is probably going to be a 5" random orbit sander.

It seems for around 100 bucks you can get the DeWalt or Makita w/ variable speed. Step up to around 180 for the Bosch.

For those that are familiar with my posts, I'm a hobbyist with these things so they are not going to be used for hours at a clip every day of the week.

Do you guys have a opinion one way or the other?

Thanks in advance.

[Howard Jahnke]

Can't beat the Porter Cable's IMO. Obviously Festool is out there, But they cost your first born.

[Clint Schlosser]

I have been using the Rigid 2601. Its $70 i think and works fine for me. I am not sure what the difference price will buy you. I know the newest porter cable model is lower profile and probably better quality for $130. But I can buy two Rigids for the price of one. Not sure sanding is requires that level of sophistication.

[john bateman]

Hey Gang,

My next purchase is probably going to be a 5" random orbit sander.

It seems for around 100 bucks you can get the DeWalt or Makita w/ variable speed. Step up to around 180 for the Bosch.

For those that are familiar with my posts, I'm a hobbyist with these things so they are not going to be used for hours at a clip every day of the week.

Do you guys have a opinion one way or the other?

Thanks in advance.

I was in the same position as you when I bought the Makita variable speed. It seemed like a good compromise, and the best bang for the buck.

It certainly does what it's supposed to, but it requires two hands to use, as it seems to wander around a bit while sanding. The dust bag work pretty good, though.

[Cary Falk]

I have a 6" Makita and love it. I hook it up to a hose and it has very good dust collection.

[Michael MacDonald]

I have the bosch--I think the Bosch ROS20VSK. Used it for at least an hour last night... (I think my hand is still vibrating). I like it--the dust collection hooked up to a small vac is great.

[Brice Burrell]

Can't beat the Porter Cable's IMO. Obviously Festool is out there, But they cost your first born.

True Festool tools are pricey but their 5" sander is $170. Not cheap but if you are going to be sanding all day (I know the OP said he isn't going to) then it isn't expensive. Even for relatively short sanding secessions the vibration free use is appreciated. A Festool could be the last sander you'll ever need to buy. With a cheapo how long will it be before the variable speed switch goes?

Another route to go is a Festool sander/vac package deal. Dust free sanding, think about it. This could be a chance to change the way you think about woodworking and your health. Just a thought.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have the Bosch variable speed. Very good sander, not too pricey. I got mine free as a promo combo, but I'd buy it again.
Budget? If you can spring it, I'd go Festool, they are amazing tools. The sander is near 100% dust free, and smooth.

[Mike Henderson]

I have the Porter Cable 390K and like it. But people speak highly of the Festool and its dust collection.

Mike

[Mike Rees]

Seems like there isn't much differance between the DeWalt and the Makita ... or the Porter Cable for that matter.

[Dan Friedrichs]

True Festool tools are pricey but their 5" sander is $170.

I was just going to say that. The 6" ones are quite a bit more, but $170 for a 5" ROS made by Festool that's vibration and dust free - maybe that's worth $50 more than the Bosch?

(I don't have one, but am planning to buy one)

[Mike Henderson]

Seems like there isn't much differance between the DeWalt and the Makita ... or the Porter Cable for that matter.
The thing I like about the PC is that pad brake. So when you turn it off, the pad stops turning - you can set it down without it jumping all over. The Festool has the same feature.

I haven't heard of that feature on the DeWalt or Makita. It's a really nice feature which you quickly forget in use until you go back to a ROS without it.

Mike

[Brice Burrell]

I was just going to say that. The 6" ones are quite a bit more, but $170 for a 5" ROS made by Festool that's vibration and dust free - maybe that's worth $50 more than the Bosch?

(I don't have one, but am planning to buy one)

One thing that I'd warn people about the Festool 5" sander is that it isn't an aggressive sander. It wasn't designed to be, it is meant for fine finish sanding. Don't get me wrong, with 60 grit you can remove some material, it will however, take longer than some of the other sanders on the market.

As for the Festool 6" sanders, the ETS150 is one of the finest sanders money can buy. At $285 they are worth every penny. The ETS150 is as good as the Fein RO sanders, and the Fein's are nearly twice the price.

[Brice Burrell]

The thing I like about the PC is that pad brake. So when you turn it off, the pad stops turning - you can set it down without it jumping all over. The Festool has the same feature.

I haven't heard of that feature on the DeWalt or Makita. It's a really nice feature which you quickly forget in use until you go back to a ROS without it.

Mike

I believe the DeWalt and Makita sanders have have a sanding brake, maybe not every model but most do.

[Rick Bunt]

I bought the Milwaukee version (6021-21) about a year ago based on the "Top Value" rating by Wood Magazine. I've been very happy with it as a hobbiest. It's pretty agressive when needed and dust collection seems decent (I hook it up to shop vac, but bag also seems okay). For $61 at Amazon it's quite a deal, imho.

[Mike Henderson]

I believe the DeWalt and Makita sanders have have a sanding brake, maybe not every model but most do.
Thanks for the update. I didn't know that. I really appreciate the pad brake and recommend that feature for any new purchases of a ROS.

Mike

[Mike Rees]

I believe the DeWalt and Makita sanders have have a sanding brake, maybe not every model but most do.

Hrm., the DeWalt variable speed D26452K does have the brake. Eh, maybe I'll just head over to Lowes and grab one of these and say to heck w/ it.

[Eric Roberge]

+1 for the Ridgid.

[Greg Wittler]

I know the Festool sanders are expensive, but the last time I used my Porter Cable 5" ROS for over an hour, it felt like the bones in my hand were vibrating for at least an hour after I was done. I just thought this was normal until I saw a post about the Festool Sanders causing less vibration. I don't own any Festool products right now but one of their sanders is on my short list.

Greg

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

One thing that I'd warn people about the Festool 5" sander is that it isn't an aggressive sander. It wasn't designed to be, it is meant for fine finish sanding. Don't get me wrong, with 60 grit you can remove some material, it will however, take longer than some of the other sanders on the market.

As for the Festool 6" sanders, the ETS150 is one of the finest sanders money can buy. At $285 they are worth every penny. The ETS150 is as good as the Fein RO sanders, and the Fein's are nearly twice the price.

Any expereince or opinions on the 125 FEQ? (~$400) Festool claims its the only hand sander you'll ever want/need.
http://www.festoolusa.com/products/rotex-sanders/ro-125-feq-rotex-sander-571536.html

[Cliff Holmes]

The ETS150 is as good as the Fein RO sanders, and the Fein's are nearly twice the price.

Hmm, it's not often you see Festool being mentioned as the economy alternative :D

[Chris Tsutsui]

You don't "need" a festool, just get a sander that will fit your shop vac.

Some sanders like the Bosch have a unique square dust attachment that won't work with any shop vac.

The Porter Cable models have been designed to fit the Festool shop vacs perfectly, and can fit other standard shop vacs if you use an adapter.

Sanding will be greatly enhanced with a vacuum sucking up all the dust and keeping the pads clean and cool.

To deal with the vibrations, just put on some anti-vibe gloves. :)

[Brice Burrell]

Any expereince or opinions on the 125 FEQ? (~$400) Festool claims its the only hand sander you'll ever want/need.
http://www.festoolusa.com/products/rotex-sanders/ro-125-feq-rotex-sander-571536.html

Jeff, I have this sander (the Rotex 125). I get a fair amount of use out it but I almost exclusively use it for aggressive sanding. It can be used as an all purpose sander, for aggressive/finish sanding and polishing. That said, its not my first choice for finish sanding. I find myself using it for aggressive sanding jobs and it excels in this area. Once I get to the finishing stage of the sanding process I prefer to switch over to one of my other Festool sanders. You certainly can use the RO125 as a finish sander, I just find it easier and more efficient to use a traditional RO sander.

There is a learning curve to getting the hang of the technique to hold the sander perfectly flat. It's fairly easy to hold it at a very slight angle because of the weight of the motor in the elongated body, making it unwieldy at times. Some guys get the hang of it right away and some take a long. I think this is one Festool tool that doesn't live up to the hype, with the potentially long learning curve and the amount of physical and mental effort it takes to get flawless results. In other words, the RO125 is a love it or hate it kind of tool.

On the other hand, the RO150 is a much better sander. It doesn't have the same issue with holding it flat because of the large sanding pad. If you want an all purpose sander and you've got the bucks the RO150 is the way to go.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Brice,

You seem to have many Festool sanders :) Can you compare the 5" ROS and the 6" ROS (the ETS150)? It seems like many on this forum have the ETS150 and are very happy - I have not read many reviews of the 5" one, though. I'm thinking of getting the 5" one because I think it would be easier to get into smaller places. How do either compare with a standard 1/4-sheet finish sander?

[Richard Dragin]

I've owned Dewalt and Makita ROS and right now I prefer the Makita. I think a lot of the ROS' in this price range are comparable and the biggest difference I found was when switching to a better quality paper.

I like Rhyno grip from Industrial Abrasives although Klingspore always gets favorable reviews as well. Just don't bother with anything from the Borg or you'll be wasting a lot of time.

[Brice Burrell]

Brice,

You seem to have many Festool sanders :) Can you compare the 5" ROS and the 6" ROS (the ETS150)? It seems like many on this forum have the ETS150 and are very happy - I have not read many reviews of the 5" one, though. I'm thinking of getting the 5" one because I think it would be easier to get into smaller places. How do either compare with a standard 1/4-sheet finish sander?

Yeah Dan, I've got a few Festool sanders. I'm a general contractor, I mostly do residential remodeling. My jobs can range from cabinets and built ins to exterior prep for painting. I started out with the 5" ETS125 quickly followed by the 6" ETS150. I really thought I'd end up using the 6" sander more but that turned out not to be the case. I probably use the my 5" sanders twice as much as the 6".

The ETS125 is Festool's 5" random orbit sander. It has a two amp motor with variable speed, a sanding brake and 2.5 mm stroke or orbit. The relatively small stroke and at two amps it isn't the most powerful or aggressive RO sander out there. I've found the ETS125 to be very smooth and easy to handle. There are people that have had problems with a new ETS125 sander bouncy or hard to handle.

Festool's smaller sanders greatly benefit from being broken in. During this break in period there are a few things happening. The bearing seals and sanding brake are breaking in. But more importantly, the carbon brushes are breaking in or seating. Until the brushes seat the motor won't operate at full power. Being only a two amp motor it needs all of its power to work efficiently. Break in can take 5-8 hours. I've let the sanders run without load by hanging them up running for a few hours to get through the break in period.

I almost always run my ETS125 sanders at full speed with the vacuum suction turned way down, maybe 1/3 power, on my Festool vac. Dust collection is very near 100% with my Festool vac attached. With the dust bag attached the DC is still pretty good but not 100%. If you push down with much force you can stall out the sander. It works best to allow the sander do the work. My two ETS125s are real gems, super smooth and they glide across the work surface. Not everyone agrees or have taken the time to break in their sanders. Complaints about it being underpowered and bouncy are not uncommon. I would say a three amp motor might be a nice addition. As far as bouncy, I've never had this problem. As a finish sander in a real honey. If you want aggressive, look elsewhere.

The 6" ETS150 series sanders could be Festool's best value in their tool lineup. They aren't cheap at $285 but there isn't anything even close in quality at that price range. (Well, there was a Metabo and re-badged Rigid that was close in value a few years ago.) The ETS150 has two models, one with a 5 mm and the other with a 3 mm stroke. The 5 mm stroke is what I'd recommend for woodworking and the 3 mm for sanding finishes, metals, solid surface materials or anywhere a super fine finish was needed (grits over 600). Festool puts a lot of effort in balancing these sanders and it really comes through in use. These things are so smooth. You can easily use them for hours without feeling it in your hands. You can let the sander go and it won't bounce or walk all over the work piece.

Festool has just introduced a new sanding pad for the ETS150 that helps keep the sanding pad cooler and improves dust collection when sanding on narrow edges. Sanders with the new pads and the new paper are just making their way on shelves now. If your looking to buy be sure to get one with the new pad. (The old style paper will still work with the new pads.)

If you are looking for the smoothest sander with outstanding dust collection (attached to a vac) an ETS150 is it.

Another thing to mention about Festool sanders is the quality abrasives and the other accessories like the hard, soft and super soft sanding pads. Replacement sanding pads and sanding brakes are easy to order from any Festool dealer. One of the very few downsides is the unique 9 hole pattern sand paper (the new 6" sanding have ever more holes). There are a few other companies that make paper to fit Festool sanders but not many. Indasa's Rhynogrip is one of them and a good value if you don't want to buy Festool paper. http://www.2sand.com/791/Indasa-Rhynogrip-6-inch-Festool-9-Hole-Velcro-Sanding-Discs-50/box.html

It's hard to go wrong with a Festool sander because of the 30 day no questions asked return policy. If you aren't happy for any reason return it.

[Brice Burrell]

I've owned Dewalt and Makita ROS and right now I prefer the Makita. I think a lot of the ROS' in this price range are comparable and the biggest difference I found was when switching to a better quality paper.

I like Rhyno grip from Industrial Abrasives although Klingspore always gets favorable reviews as well. Just don't bother with anything from the Borg or you'll be wasting a lot of time.

+1 on the Rhynogrip.

[Mike Zilis]

I've got two models of the Bosch 5" ROS; the 1295DVS and the ROS20VSK. I like them both although the ROS20VSK runs a little smoother - less vibration + easier control. The 1295DVS sands a bit more aggressively so I use it for 60/80/100/120 grits. The ROS20VSK gets used for 150/180/240/320 grits. I don't hesitate to recommend either model and will definitely continue to use Bosch sanders.

[Greg Wittler]

You don't "need" a festool, just get a sander that will fit your shop vac.

To deal with the vibrations, just put on some anti-vibe gloves. :)

Ah, anti vibe gloves, never heard of those, thanks for the info! 25.00 fix to a possible $200 problem.

Greg

[Don Morris]

I skipped over a lot of posts to get to this, after a few it seems most of the salient points have been made. FWIW: I have had a variable speed BOSCH ROS 3107DVS for years and when using it I hook it up to my shopvac. Dust collection is phenomenal when hooked up. Not good without the connection. There's definite vibration so I wear heavy gloves when sanding for long periods. But it sure gets the job done well. If I had to replace it, I'd look for another BOSCH because of my experience with mine. But it's an older model and I'm sure improvements have been made (hopefully) in other brands, so I would but would test the others too. The only thing that I would emphasize is: dust collection was poor until I got the connector for my shopvac. Once I got the connector and started using the shopvac for dust collection...WOW what a difference. Whichever brand you chose, make it one which allows for some sort of connection to a dust extractor.

[James Williams 007]

I have been using the Ridgid for a few years and I have put it to work on many a long demanding project and with the lifetime endorsement I would by another one. I bought it after it got a best buy rating in one of the magz. I actually just bought the 6" and its a dream to use also!

[Don Whitten]

My 5" ROS and 1/4 sheet sanders are PC's and have really performed for me.

[Michael Drew]

I have the rigid. One thing that irritates me is the on / off buttons. Seams like I’m always hitting the off button when I’m sanding close quarters in cabinets or boxes. I’ve also come to appreciate a brake, because it doesn’t have one and I’d really like one. I don’t like the height of the rigid either. It’s just too awkward in tight places. My next sander will be the low profile PC. Variable speed is important to me also. This may be nit-picky, but I don’t like long cords on sanders (which the rigid has). They are never long enough to reach a receptacle, so I end up using an extension cord anyway. If the sander’s cord is long, I have to wrap it around the sander and being so long, it gets bulky and it also starts to look like and behave like a slinky no matter how I wrap it. Funny how something as insignificant as a ROS in a wood shop (price wise) can end up being such a personal thing with wants / needs.

[Mike Henderson]

+1 on what Michael Drew said. I had a Rigid sander before buying my PC. The two thing that drove me crazy were (1) the on/off button - I kept hitting it and turning it off while using it, and (2) no pad brake - that sucker would spin for what seemed like an hour after you turned it off. I liked the long cord, however.

I disliked the Rigid so much that I didn't even keep it as a backup after I bought my PC.

No matter what brand you buy, get one with a pad brake. Once you use one, you'll never go back.

Mike

[Bill Leonard]

I'm a true believer in Bosch and have the 5in ROS. Love it. Recently purchased a "Klingspor" 5in ROS, $49.00. A Bosch klone. When I spoke with the customer service rep, I was told that it is a Bosch with Klingspor labeling. Can't beat the price, and I like the quality. From all appearances and performance it is indeed a Bosch. Best bang for the buck I've found.

[David Helm]

Don't know If I can add anything useful to this thread. I have been using (I own two PC 6 inch and one PC 5 inch) the Porter cable sanders professionally (primarily job site work as a "carpenter") for over 15 years and have never had trouble, they've always performed well and are still in good condition.