First Major Project/Workbench Ideas

[Bruce Campbell]

Hello all. I've had the woodworking bug for several years. Attended a class run by Paul Sellers at Homestead Heritage in Texas several years back (about 03 or 04 I think), bought some very basic tools, and promptly did not find enough time, money, space at the same time to do anything about it. Here we are in '10 and I've got the time and space, and well we all know what the economy is like.

With encouragement from my wife I've tooled up a bit, though I'm a far cry from even a complete starter set. The biggest tool I'm missing is a workbench (and maybe a couple panel saws, why I bought two Adria rip saws off the bat (tenon and DT) and no Xcut saws is lost to history). I could really use some chisels also, working with the blue chips that I started with and getting tired of merely looking at them and having the edge fold.

To the point, however, is that I've been considering building something to replace the Workmate I've abused and the wobbly nailed together thing that almost looks like a workbench that the previous owner of my house left behind. To be fair to the Workmate, according the the Schwarz's list of needful things, it's a perfect bench. It's less than 24" wide, multiple work holding methods, built in wide vise, and when I put my foot on the ledge it weighs in over the 200 pound mark he points out is important. So I dutifully bought CS's workbench book, read it thoroughly, followed nearly everyone's build of it online, thought about it some more and decided to possibly build a roubo.

I'm starting to think as a first major project, this might be a mistake. First off I own 0 power tools. Can't stand the thing. I'm not a traditionalist, I'm just sensitive to noise and to be honest a sharp piece of metal spinning at 10,000 RPM near my hands makes rethink hobby priorities. My hand tool collection as mentioned needs some help. I did get lucky, or so I thought at the time, ReStore had some solid core doors on sale for 15 bucks a piece. I bought two, on the thought that glued together they'd make close to a 4 inch think top. However, the wood ones I wanted were gone by the time I got there and I settled for some MDF ones. I'm starting to think that a rouboesque bench is not going to be happy with that.

Some immediate concerns that come to mind as the moment when I commit to this gets closer:

Can I even cut mortises into MDF using hand tools (I do have a brace and some bits for major wasting) that will be solid enough to accept the legs and make a steady bench?

MDF is known for being fairly flat right out of the gate but I'm wondering if it will be flat enough for both gluing two pieces on top of eachother AND for various woodworking tasks. I get the feeling that once it's up, flattening it is not going to be an affair done with handplanes.

I've searched the forums for a couple days about using MDF tops and seen some of their other hazards. These doors have some kind of finish which would seem to protect them from water spills etc, and not be too slippery.

How well would MDF take dog holes that would stand up to heavy abuse?

I know I could potentially go buy the material for a proper top but I've about blown my woodworking budget for a while, I've got about enough left to buy the lumber for the base and if I'm lucky some ash or red oak for the leg vise (I have a 16" acme screw with the vise fasteners and such I got off of Ebay inbound). So at this point I go with the tops I have or the benches I have.

Any ideas on how to proceed would be very welcome. I've been lurking for quite some time now and it's reading about everyone's woodworking fun here that's finally got me off of my butt and ready to do some firewood making myself.

I've got a ton of other questions and hope to be contributing answers now and again soon enough. Next question that starts to come to mind, how to hold off the wife now that she see's I'm working and expects a houseful of beautiful hardwood furniture next month, but that's another thread.

[Randy Bonella]

Hi Bruce,
While not exactly in your space, I have a few tailed tools, a Roubo is very doable all by hand. The only thing I've done using electrons is to rip the large slabs to rough width dimension. Very few specialty joints and I am using hand tools to do all of them: Mortice, Tenon and round holes. The one element that you brought up is lumber prep for glue-ups. Maybe if you can afford and buy materials already surface prepped you can do the rest of dimensioning by hand.

My background is mostly construction work and some finish work prior to starting this project. I've started a thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=128346 to document what I'm doing. It is taking me time as I don't get that much shop time in any given week and I'm prepping most of my wood by hand from rough sawn and heavily weathered material. Yes it is a lot of work but pretty satisfying.

I don't know about working with MDF but can imagine it would be difficult to work by hand but don't know having not done so. Good luck and whatever path you take I'm sure it will be an adventure and there is lots of help around to make a solid bench.

Randy...

[David Gendron]

first thing first, welcom to the creek and espacialy to the slipery slop of hand tools woodworking! As for your bench, I would stay away from the MDF stuff. I don,t want to elaborat on that so move on... What wood were you considering for the base? And what wood is plentyfull and cheep in your area? My bench like many others is made of DF and I'm realy happy with it(Roubo style). What I'm considering for my next bench is using two slabs of DF for the top of 4 x 12 x 96. By using two slabs like that, simplify the amount of work to do on the top, and IMO, it is the place, if using hand tools, where you spend the most energy. I wouldn't see any problems eather in using DF for a leg vise, just line it with a piece of hard wood at the bench level.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

[Bruce Campbell]

Randy,
Really looking forward to prepping the lumber by hand. One of my recent tool ups was a fairly nice set of planes to add to my stanley 4 1/2. I now have a 4, 4 1/2, 5, and 7c. I'm dying to put them to real use.

David,
Sadly, I don't think i get a choice on staying away from the MDF. It's what I got and I can't afford enough material for another top. So I either stick with the Workmate and weeble/wobble bench or try to make something out of the MDF. Fortunately it's 2 inch think MDF so I think it should be solid enough to be at least temporary for a year or so.

The wood for the base... um, great question. I hadn't considered what the local framing lumber at the Borg was. Some variation of pine or fir I'm sure. Considered getting rougher boards at a lumber dealer but not sure it'd be better that way.

[Randy Bonella]

Bruce,
My lumber is all reclaimed Doug Fir from a burn pile so BORG construction grade lumber is actually a step up from what I"m using. Not sure about Arizona but up here in NW all our construction grade lumber is Doug Fir. Main difference is mine is full 8/4 thickness rough cut vs 6/4 construction stuff. Also Construction grade lumber isn't nearly as much prep work as what I have you just need to let it dry out a bit. From what I've read the leg assemblies can be made of most anything.

I know the main issue with MDF is that it will want to sag even at 2" thick so some sort of frame or lamination and or both will be needed to keep it flat and to give it some stiffness. Weight certainly won't be a problem. I recall a Fine woodworking article about an MDF laminate top that looked pretty good. I'll find it and post information for you tomorrow.

Keep us posted on what you are doing and I'm sure others will be able to help.

Randy....

[Robert Rozaieski]

Bruce,

I agree with you that a laminated top Roubo is not a good first all hand tool project. The problem is not that it isn't a good bench. It is a very good design. The problem with the modern design is the lamination of the top. Historically, these thick tops were not laminated from a bunch of thin stock. They were instead made of a single thick, wide plank; perfect for building with only hand tools. The lamination method is a contemporary solution invented by commercial bench manufacturers to build benches as inexpensively as possible with as little wood waste as possible. Because 4/4 and 8/4 boards are more common to mill from today's smaller trees, these thicknesses are much less expensive so lamination makes sense if you have the equipment to do it. It also solves the problem of finding 4" thick, 24" wide, 10' long boards, which simply don't exist today.

If you are dead set on a building a Roubo design completely by hand, I'd recommend instead making the top from two 12" wide 12/4 or 16/4 boards edge joined. That would be much easier to do by hand than laminating the top from thin stock, though you'd be spending a pretty penny for the 12/4 or 16/4 boards.

I personally have laminated two bench tops, one entirely by hand, and one with the help of machines. Neither one was an enjoyable process. Along those lines, since you did say you were intending to build it entirely by hand, allow me to make an alternative suggestion.

Take a look at Mike Siemsen's blog over at the Mike Siemsen School of Woodworking. He and Dean Jansa built an English or Nicholson style of bench, using mostly hand tools. I think this is a much easier and better design to tackle without the aid of power tools since there is no lamination required. You need a couple clear construction grade 4x4s for the legs and I'd suggest three 2x12s about 16' long for the rest of the parts. Pick the straightest and clearest ones you can find. All told, you're looking at about $75 in lumber.

I've done a video on my web site about my own bench and what I feel are the drawbacks of its current design (trestle base, laminated top, hardwood construction, etc.). I'm planning to replace it in the next few months. I'm working on a project right now, but once it's done, I'm going to be building a version of the English/Nicholson bench (albeit with a little Moxon thrown in for good measure) out of construction grade doug fir, using only hand tools. I plan to film the build for my website/podcast so if you haven't built your bench by then, you might keep an eye out for the videos of my build.

At any rate, I guess my main point is that I have done benchtop lamination by hand and I do not recommend going that route without the aid of machinery. It's not the easiest thing to do, it's time consuming and not worth the effort in my opinion. I think the design discussed in Nicholson's book is a far better choice when building a bench completely by hand.

With that said, if you decide to go ahead and do the laminated top anyway, I suggest searching for Wilbur Pan's thread on building his workbench here on SMC and over on Woodnet. He's doing a laminated top out of construction grade 4x4 doug fir completely by hand. His thread very nicely details the build and will either convince you to give it a try or convince you to run in the other direction :D. Either way, it's worth the read.

Good luck with your bench!

[Jim Koepke]

Bruce,

Welcome to the Creek.

My thoughts on you bench would be to build the base for a future bench and use the MDF for the top until you are able or need to replace it.

To prevent sagging in the MDF it may be necessary to build a few stretchers into the design.

I do not think the MDF will work too well with hold fasts. Neither does a thin or week top as I am finding out.

jim

[David Gendron]

Bruce, I'm sure if you look around a little, you can find anought reclaimed wood to make your top better than a MDF one! Remember, it doesn't have to be prety, but sturdy!

[Robert Rozaieski]

Reading your post again, I realized that you already had the MDF doors. I think these would make a poor top for a Roubo design (MDF has very little stiffness when unsupported and will sag before you even get it mounted). However, the English/Nicholson workbench design includes cross bracing (think floor joists) that would provide good support for the mdf so it might work. You could even rip one door in half and use it for the front and back aprons and the second door for the top. Just a thought.

[Randy Bonella]

Bruce,
Jim makes a really good point about building the base for the future and using the MDF top for some time until it can be replaced if it ever needs replacement. I understand the other comments but am also in the camp of use what is available to you.

I found the article I mentioned earlier. The Bench is not a Roubo but it does give a good summary of a laminated MDF based top. The article is in Fine Woodworking, June 2001, issue No. 149. The article starts on page 36 with a pretty good exploded view of a laminated top on page 40.

The design looks like it has about 6" on either side that is regular wood where the dog holes are and where you would do most of your pounding. The MDF lamination is in the middle where it is used mostly for support. If I were to go down this path I'd probably build the 6-8" width on the front with Doug Fir or other available wood where the bulk of the abuse will be taken then the middle section the MDF laminate with a 3-4" width on the back side of the same material as the front. This should give you the support you need to keep the MDF from sagging and good mount points for your leg assembly.

PM me and I can get you more information on the article.

Randy...

[Matt Radtke]

The biggest issue I have with 'fake wood' tops for hand tool use is how do you flatten them? If you are primarily a power tool user, your "perfectly flat surfaces" are your jointer, planer, table saw, etc. If your bench is out of whack, who cares, your lumber is square. Any rocking, twisting, or eveness of the top is an annoyance and little more.

When using hand tools, your bench top is your "pefectly flat surface." I would go so far as to say it is a precision tool. As such, you need a way to make and return it to "perfectly flat." Hand planes, winding sticks, and a straight edge will make quick work of a wooden bench top.

Working with non-wood surfaces is a pain. I made what I call my homeowners bench after I bought my house. 2x4s, 4x4s, pegboard, and an 3/4" OSB top. Heavy, massive, and wonderful for me the DIYer. Terrible for me the woodworker. Top is flat-ish, and was perfectly fine for cutting pipe, drilling pilot holes for trim, and generally making my 1960s house not look like the 1960s anymore. Not bad for pounding out some mortises and in fact, has been instrumental in buidling my woodworking bench.

But it is /terrible/ for planing on. Every board that I have face planned on it ends up with gentle cupping, that perfectly matches the gentle cupping on bench and there's no easy way to fix it (the benchtop), so I'm building a proper wood working bench that can be periodically re-flattened.

Long story short: You need a flat bench. Wood and products made from wood will become unflat from time to time. Have a strategy to return your benchtop material to flat. If you can't, not a good benchtop material.

[Dan Sink]

Bruce,

I agree with you that a laminated top Roubo is not a good first all hand tool project. The problem is not that it isn't a good bench. It is a very good design. The problem with the modern design is the lamination of the top. Historically, these thick tops were not laminated from a bunch of thin stock. They were instead made of a single thick, wide plank; perfect for building with only hand tools. The lamination method is a contemporary solution invented by commercial bench manufacturers to build benches as inexpensively as possible with as little wood waste as possible. Because 4/4 and 8/4 boards are more common to mill from today's smaller trees, these thicknesses are much less expensive so lamination makes sense if you have the equipment to do it. It also solves the problem of finding 4" thick, 24" wide, 10' long boards, which simply don't exist today.

If you are dead set on a building a Roubo design completely by hand, I'd recommend instead making the top from two 12" wide 12/4 or 16/4 boards edge joined. That would be much easier to do by hand than laminating the top from thin stock, though you'd be spending a pretty penny for the 12/4 or 16/4 boards.

I personally have laminated two bench tops, one entirely by hand, and one with the help of machines. Neither one was an enjoyable process. Along those lines, since you did say you were intending to build it entirely by hand, allow me to make an alternative suggestion.

Take a look at Mike Siemsen's blog over at the Mike Siemsen School of Woodworking. He and Dean Jansa built an English or Nicholson style of bench, using mostly hand tools. I think this is a much easier and better design to tackle without the aid of power tools since there is no lamination required. You need a couple clear construction grade 4x4s for the legs and I'd suggest three 2x12s about 16' long for the rest of the parts. Pick the straightest and clearest ones you can find. All told, you're looking at about $75 in lumber.

I've done a video on my web site about my own bench and what I feel are the drawbacks of its current design (trestle base, laminated top, hardwood construction, etc.). I'm planning to replace it in the next few months. I'm working on a project right now, but once it's done, I'm going to be building a version of the English/Nicholson bench (albeit with a little Moxon thrown in for good measure) out of construction grade doug fir, using only hand tools. I plan to film the build for my website/podcast so if you haven't built your bench by then, you might keep an eye out for the videos of my build.

At any rate, I guess my main point is that I have done benchtop lamination by hand and I do not recommend going that route without the aid of machinery. It's not the easiest thing to do, it's time consuming and not worth the effort in my opinion. I think the design discussed in Nicholson's book is a far better choice when building a bench completely by hand.

With that said, if you decide to go ahead and do the laminated top anyway, I suggest searching for Wilbur Pan's thread on building his workbench here on SMC and over on Woodnet. He's doing a laminated top out of construction grade 4x4 doug fir completely by hand. His thread very nicely details the build and will either convince you to give it a try or convince you to run in the other direction :D. Either way, it's worth the read.

Good luck with your bench!


Bob,

Love your podcasts - thanks for all of the effort putting them together. Now you've got me all anxious for when you film your bench build. That will be perfect timing, as my next WW project is going to be a solid handtool bench from df. But I won't be building mine until probably late summer or fall. I've promised my wife I'd finish the second level on our story and a half house before I start any other big projects. Anyway, can't wait to see your build.

[Matt Ranum]

I did my first bench top out of MDF, actually still using it although limited use. If you do use MDF, make sure you have A LOT of support under it and also make sure you put a cover on it like tempered hardboard. If you build a very strong and supportive base with a hard top layer it should be alright, cut one of those just a little and you will be sorry in the long run. I speak from experience.:rolleyes:

[Bruce Campbell]

Wow. Well that's been an interesting read. Not entirely sure what I'm going to do now. I have a wee space, maybe 6x6 which I share with the water heater, the MDF doors I bought (I presume they are MDF) are 6'8" by roughly 3' or so. I was going to use a circular saw to cut them down to 5'6" x 24". After the warning on cutting them and being sorry about it, not so sure now. Then there's the problem of building a sub frame and mating it to a roubo base after I managed to build that. Starting to think maybe a couple industrial strength sawhorses and just prop the slab on that, and maybe cover it with a slab of plywood or something until I can afford the wood for a full top. Build a free standing vise leg or something for my vise needs. Sounds ugly but it would be a lot better than my current workbench situation.

The english bench is an interesting idea. I looked at it several times. It doesn't seem to work well in my head but then I'm such a noob at this craft that I don't trust my head on anything I see right now. The price point is attractive though I'm so used to clamping things to the edge to keep them steady on my WorkMate that I just fell for the Roubo as being a giant pro version of what I already do.

Think I'll sit on it over the weekend and reconsider my options. Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts on this. My wife may never forgive you, but I suspect a good number of you are used to that already. Now if I can just figure out how to use that Stanley 190 I picked up to justify to her that I'm not without a clue.

[Matt Radtke]

Starting to think maybe a couple industrial strength sawhorses and just prop the slab on that, and maybe cover it with a slab of plywood or something until I can afford the wood for a full top. Build a free standing vise leg or something for my vise needs. Sounds ugly but it would be a lot better than my current workbench situation.


Any bench is better than no bench, so by all means, throw the slab on some sawhorses and go nuts. Maybe get three 2x4 kits, screw the slab to them, and you'd be in business. For a temporary tail vise, you could use a Lee Valley surface vise. For dogs, just drill holes. It'd probably last you a year or longer. Plenty of time to confirm how serious you are about the hobby and decide if you need a better bench. If you do, you have a bench--which makes building a bench easier :D

[Dan Andrews]

I can't count the number of projects I have made where I ended up saying "When I build the next one I will do this, this and that differently. Think of your first bench as a prototype for the ultimate one yet to come. Use the materials you have. Your woodworking skills will improve and your knowledge of what featchers you need most in your bench will evolve with use of your first one.

As the harware slogan goes: "Just Do It".