Router Bit Choices

[CPeter James]

I need to buy some router bits for my new 3 1/2 hp Milwaukee router. I want a cabinet door set and V-joint tongue and groove set. I am looking at Whiteside, Freud, CMT, and Jasada. Everyone says that theirs is the best. CMT seems to be the most expensive. Jasada seems to be the least expensive and Whiteside and Freud in the middle. I can't afford the CMT unless someone knows where to get them a real good prices. I like the looks of the Whiteside, especially the three wing raised panel cutter, but have no experience with them and don't know anyone who has. They would be my choice if they are as good as the sales people say, are they?

CPeter

[mike lucas]

CMT is the best that I know of. As for Jesada, the owners of CMT and Jesada used to be partners at CMT. then they split up about 10-12 years ago. Now it looks like Jesada is gone, and that CMT has absorbed them up. If you look at the latest CMT catalog, you will see that they have many new items. Then go to Jesada`s web site, and you will notice that the new items at CMT come from Jesada.
To go a step further, request a new Jesada catalog. You will not get one. Their web site has not been updated for many months.

If you can afford it, Get CMT bits. If not, get either Freud, Whiteside, Eagle America, or Amana. After them, the quilaty goes down hill pretty fast, but for cassual users most of the cheaper brands are fine.

[Don Abele]

I have mostly Jesada bits and have never had a problem with them. As a matter of fact, I just ordered a couple more bits from them (and received their fall catalog with them). I also own several Whiteside, Freud, and CMT bits. The Jesada were all strictly mail order because of price. The others were in-store purchases of bits I needed "now" and choice was based on price.

All of the bits you listed are high quality manufacturers and you shouldn't have any problem with any of them. Pick your price or your favorite color. :D I don't think you could really go wrong with this decision.

Be well,

Doc

[Jim Becker]

I have mostly Jesada bits and have never had a problem with them. As a matter of fact, I just ordered a couple more bits from them (and received their fall catalog with them).
Interesting. There have been many dozens of complaints about them on the 'boards since the founder sold out about a year and a half ago. Phones going unanswered. Email being ignored. Products not showing up, etc. The son is the CEO of Infinity Tools, but there is no connection with Jesada, which is now owne by, I believe, an Austrailian company. But I could be wrong about that. 90% of my router cutters are Jesada, but I've been very reluctant to do business anymore due to the number and severity of the concerns espressed by even long-time customers.

[Don Abele]

Jim, I just went back and looked at my order (it was in June, sorry it seemed like "just"). I actually bought them through Amazon. When I checked their site, they only list 1 set of bits available from Jesada - it says all the rest are no longer stocked (including the plywood dado bits I ordered). So, maybe as you and Mike alluded to, they may be a serious issue to deal with.

Thanks for helping me clear my statement up - I wouldn't want to direct someone where they will have to deal with any hassles.

Be well,

Doc

[mike lucas]

I found what seams to be the most exspensive router bits I have seen to date. Maybe we should check into them.:) http://www.carbideshop.com/catalogs/ocemco/ocemcoindex.shtml These look a lot like the bits I bought from Woodhaven way back in the 1990`s.;) And they too were pricey.:(

Can anyone say $212 round over bit?:eek: :eek:

[Jim Wolfe]

I found what seams to be the most exspensive router bits I have seen to date. Maybe we should check into them.:) http://www.carbideshop.com/catalogs/ocemco/ocemcoindex.shtml These look a lot like the bits I bought from Woodhaven way back in the 1990`s.;) And they too were pricey.:(

Can anyone say $212 round over bit?:eek: :eek:
But look at the size of this bit , not you everyday round over
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td width="16%" bgcolor="#ffccff">
R-220-8

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3" Dia

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1-1/4"radius

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1/2"shank

</td> <td width="36%" bgcolor="#ffccff">
$212.24

</td></tr></tbody> </table> the rest of the prices look like the are in line with what I purchase.
Jim

[mike lucas]

Has any of you heard of Infinity router bits? They are a very new company that makes and sales routers bits here in the USA. In the 2 reviews I have read, put them right up there with CMT at a slightly lower price.
http://www.infinitytools.com/Home.asp

[Greg Heppeard]

The article in FWW August '99 lists quality in the following order: Whiteside, Ridge Carbide/Liberty, Oldham Viper, Freud, Amana, MLCS, CMT, Woodworker's Choice, Car-Tech, Woodline, Woodtek, Bosch, Grizzly, Eagle America, Porter-Cable, Rockler and Jesada.

I've used Whiteside for the last 3 years and have had very few problems.

I think that the reason CMT is more expensive is the amount of advertising they do.

We currently sell both in the store that I work at...sales for CMT are better than Whiteside, but I haven't had the chance to check them out personally yet.

[Jim Becker]

Gregg, there was a follow-up to that review that reclassified the Jesada bit after a design flaw was corrected...not that it's important at this point!

[Greg Heppeard]

Thanks Jim, I missed that one

[Lloyd Robins]

I like my Whiteside bits. I have some Jesada's and they work well also. I just got an email from Infinity thanking me for signing up for their bulletins, which I don't remember doing. I glanced at their site before unsubscribing. Looks like they have white bits also.

[Chuck Fischer]

Talking to the guys over at the woodpeckers incra display at the woodworking show in chicago two weekends ago, they said that they were having problems getting bits through CMT and that is why they switched to Whiteside. I bought a set of the Whiteside bits though I haven't used them yet. They are offering a super great deal on the CMT bits they still have in stock, check out the link and use this code to get 35% off... if its still good.

CMT35

http://www.woodpeck.com/cmthome.html

I'd get a bunch but I already spent my shop fund on other stuff so I guess I am out of luck.

Chuck

[Shawn Battagler]

I have used CMT, Hickory (big box), Freud, and MLCS. I believe MLCS is the best combination of price and quality. Hickory is the only one I would not buy again. I think HD has changed over to the Porter Cable brand anyway.

[Joseph N. Myers]

From one of my previous posts, edited for this thread.

"After reading the article (thanks), things are making a little more sense! (Some of the following is from memory so I might be a little off).

Many many years ago, Carlo Venditto did work for Freud selling their products at a company called CMT out of NC (?) where he was CEO (or president or something). He had a run in with Freud over new products and the likes and opened his own company in Clearwater, FL called Jesada. The name Jesada came from the 1st 2 letters of this kids name.

Different posts on this forum have mentioned that Jesada was under new management (which was bad) and that is proven out in the article where Carlo sold the company sometime in 2000-2001. I guess this is were Dave Venditto came back into the picture and started Infinity Tools. (Note: remember the 1st 2 characters of the kids name --- DAve in jesaDA.

A couple of things that I do remember is that Carlo came out with the orange color on the CMT bits and carried the color to Jesada. CMT (Freud) sued and sort of won --- CMT keep the orange color but had to pay Carlo money for developing the product. Jesada then went to the "white" color.

The other thing was that Fine Woodworking magazine did an article on router bits and Jesada didn't pass --- straight bit keep breaking. Jesada fought the article but it turned out Fine Woodworking was correct and Jesada found the problem with their bit(s).

I have been buying Freud bits for the last 4 years or so and am planning or continuing as they seem to be pretty good. Or at least till I start hearing good things about Infinity Tools."

And I do buy MLCS router bits --- they are only 5 miles from here and very handy. Their MLCS line is nothing to brag about (not anti-kickback) but their Katana are quite good.

Regards, Joe

[Mark J Bachler]

Not sure what are the best bits but I bought a Viper 45 deg bevel bit that I was using to bevel laminate over solid red oak for counter top edges. It lasted about 30 ft and the carbide chipped on both flutes. Live & learn.

[John Miliunas]

I typically like Whiteside and have quite a few. BUT, here's a "surprise" contender: Woodcraft brand bits! :) Yup, I've had great luck with them! Fact is, when I did that bathroom project, where I had to route clear through 2" thick acrylic, I used a Woodcraft bit. Cut beautifully and is still very, very useable. The $5.00/per bit specials they've run, have also produced some everyday "users". Personally, a LOT of bang for your buck! :cool:

[Chuck Fischer]

I simply must not have enough experience because I have not had any trouble with the three Hickory Bits that I have. However, I will steer clear of them from now on.

Chuck

[Keith Christopher]

I have mostly Amana tool bits but my most used are woodcraft bits- 2" flush trin bead and rabbeting- ! I just bought the kitchen set from CMT using that 35% off from woodpeck. The amana tool bits are nice but can quickly get expensive.



Keith

[Mathew Nedeljko]

I've purchased several individual Whiteside bits from Wooodcraft when they run them on their "Bit of the Month" promotions. They are great bits, but even so they are expensive.

I've found that Woodline USA manufactures very high quality bits. The carbide is thick, they have good anti-kickback design, and they are quite massive. I bought a 66 piece set from them for $166 a few months ago, and I would say they produce a quality cut that is equivalent to the Whiteside bits.

I also have a seven piece Raised Panel bit set from them that I'm very satisfied with.

[Steve Clardy]

Most all my bits are whiteside. Nice bits, lots of carbide for sharpening.
Usually purchase mail order from Router Bits. com. Fast shipping.
Steve

[mike lucas]

The article in FWW August '99 lists quality in the following order: Whiteside, Ridge Carbide/Liberty, Oldham Viper, Freud, Amana, MLCS, CMT, Woodworker's Choice, Car-Tech, Woodline, Woodtek, Bosch, Grizzly, Eagle America, Porter-Cable, Rockler and Jesada.
This is a prime example why I do not put any stock into what the rags say about what brand is best.

I will take my own experience and the words of 100`s or 1000`s of everyday users over any magazine opinion. Most of the testers probably do not even know how to use a router bit..

For them to put CMT, Jesada, and Eagle America below MLCS is a flat out joke. And come on Grizzly better then Eagle America? I don't think so. Not in a million years. And Woodtek? Come on, lets be real here.

I have never heard of Liberty router bits.

The best bits from my experience, and listening to others and reading (In not any certain order) are Freud, CMT, Whiteside, Jesada, Eagle America, and Amana The rest are second tier at best. with the Woodtek, and Grizzly bits in the seller.

[Jim Fancher]

They are offering a super great deal on the CMT bits they still have in stock, check out the link and use this code to get 35% off... if its still good.

CMT35

http://www.woodpeck.com/cmthome.html


I get "Invalid Code". :(

[David Venditto]

Hello Saw Mill Creek forum members,

My name is David Venditto and I am the President of Infinity Cutting Tools in Clearwater, Florida.

I wanted to take this opportunity to clear the air regarding rumors, speculation, concerns and questions relating to my company.

The short version goes something like this;

My father, Carlo, sold his business, Jesada Tools, about 3-1/2 years ago. The new owners did not have much luck with the business and ran into trouble early on. We are not sure if they are out of business but it seems likely at this point.

After the sale of Jesada I worked in another industry until I realized I missed woodworking and so I decided to get back into the cutting tools business. Most of my cutting tool experience comes from setting up and running the production of router bits at Jesada Tools.

Some of the Infinity Tools products resemble the Jesada products because I have designed the line according to the engineering that produced the excellent quality at Jesada. Infinity products are coated with a Silver Teflon, not White and we do not sell any other bits except our own.

Infinity Tools is owned by myself entirely and Im not sure where the Australian ownership theory got its start but that is not true.

We currently have products made to my specification in the U.S.A., Italy, and Taiwan. I provide design, engineering and material spec's for all of our products, regardless of which partner factory we use, like we did at Jesada for items we did not manufacture. For the consumer, the quality assurance comes from the Infinity Tools logo on the product, this means that it stands up to my standards, no b.s.

If any of you have any questions regarding Jesada, (yes, the name stands for JEssica, SAbrina and DAvid), Infinity Tools or routing please call me directly at 1-877-872-2487 and I would be happy to speak with you.

Also, If you are interested in reading some Infinity product reviews please visit our home page and follow the links, www.infinitytools.com (http://www.infinitytools.com)

If you would like to read an in depth article regarding our company this link may be of interest to you: http://www.newwoodworker.com/infinqa.html

Thank you,

David Venditto
Infinity Tools
1-877-872-2487

[Steve Clardy]

Glad to see you on board David. Maybe we can learn a little more from you on router bits, etc.
And Welcome to the Creek!
Steve

[Jim Fancher]

Infinity Tools is owned by myself entirelyHi David and welcome.

What happened to Corey?

Update: Nevermind. I read the article at http://www.newwoodworker.com/infinqa.html. :D

[John Miliunas]

Welcome aboard, David! :) I'll say this much for you, right off the get-go: You've got a lot of moxie in sticking your neck out to this bunch! :D I have little doubt that some of us will certainly give your product(s) a try and report back results we find. Really glad to have a major OEM on board and again, welcome to SMC! :) Oh, and if you read through some of the threads here, you will find that pictures are pretty much a "requirement". You're NOT exempt! :D Take care. :cool:

[Keith Christopher]

Welcome, wow someone dialed picture police 911. hehehe.

[Rich Konopka]

An interesting response. The poor guy sounds a tad frustrated over the rumors. I hope for his sake Jesada liquidates or files and he gets the rights to the name and domain and that will be that.

I did check out their website ( doesn't work with Mozilla Firefox) and they also sell saw blades, a dado, jointer knives, and asseccories. They have a flashing 100% money back guarantee on the site and checking the about link it appeared on the bottom right of the page "Infinity Cutting Tools are guaranteed for life.".

You gotta love that

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I like Whiteside bits, they cut really well and stay sharp a long time. I don't think I have ever seen anyone complain about them on the web forums. You can find some of them a little cheaper on e-bay from a seller called briartoys. I have been trying the woodcraft brand and they seem like a good value although I have not used them very long.

[Larry Ogborn]

The last couple of times I purchased router bits I bought
from www.routerbitworld.com/index.php and was very pleased with service and price. I use Freud but they also
have CMT, Amana, and Bosch.

Larry

[Chris Padilla]

David,

Welcome to SMC!! I have a thought (BTW, I own nothing but CMT but I have an open mind) that might get your bits out:

SMC often has Giv-A-Ways for its registered members...winners are selected by random. Check the FreeStuff drawing forum and read up about how they have gone along. It might be a good way to get these bits into our hands and then we can try 'em out! :D hehehe...no arm-twisting here or anything. :D :D

[Frank Pellow]

I have not used a router very much so am much more of a novice with a router than I am with most woodworking tools. I do plan to replace my 35 year old Craftsman router soon, so am trying to learn as much as I can before investing in a new router and bits for same. So, the opinions expressed in this thread are important to me.

I am surprised that there was no mention of Lee Valley who sell an extensive line of router bits (12 pages in their latest catalogue). I have never purchased anything from Lee Valley that was not of top notch quality so I would expect that the router bits they sell are at or near the top. Comments please! By the way, I have never used any of their router bits.

[Jim Becker]

Frank, I have a couple of bits from Lee Valley that I purchased out of convenience (added them to an order) and they are nice quality cutters.

[mike lucas]

David, Welcome aboard. It is good to have a pro like yourself on board.

I own pretty much all CMT router bits (Of the one`s that really count anyway!) I always intended to buy Jesada bits because of the quality and selection. But for some reason I never got around to it. The the catalogs stopped coming, and I forgot about that choice.

So I will make this promise! I will indeed give your line of router bits a chance.:) Are you coming out with with pretty much the standard line of bits like Jesada, CMT, and the rest of the main stream companies have to offer or are you working on some different type bits? I would like to see more plunge type bits, like some of the router bits made for Legacy Ornamental mill by Magnate. And a better line of round over and beading bits. That is one area where Jesada surpassed the rest. I seem to remember that at one time, Jesada offered about 14 different sizes of both bits. I guess I should have got off my hands and purchased the bits way back then. But then, if I would have, maybe I wouldn't be wanting them now.:o

Also, I know we are losing share to overseas companies, with that said, I try to support the good ol USA when possible. Could/would you please break down for us what is made where? I know on your web site, it states that the router bits are made in the USA. Is this all router bits, or are certain ones made somewhere else? Thanks, and once again, Welcome!

ON EDIT! And I need more choice with cove bits. Most of the companies seem to only offer about 4-7 sizes.:eek:

Also, Why haven't a company come out with router bits to cut rosettes? I understand that they would have to be much smaller then the one`s used in the drill press. Bit there have been hundreds of projects where a nice 2" rosette would have really dressed up a piece of woodwork. Just bugging you some, because it isn't everyday I can corner someone in your postiton.

[Ron Schweitzer]

I have bought only CMT bits after an experience I had with a cheep set that Sears had (I didn’t know any better).
The shanks were so shoddy I had one walk almost all of the way out of the collet, the bit kept getting deeper and deeper. By the time I was done cutting there was only about ¼” of the shank left in the collet.
I was very lucky I didn’t have to dig the bit out of my stomach, my rear aluminum TS rail wasn’t as lucky.:eek:
I buy my CMT bits locally with a 25% discount on all of them, that makes them somewhat reasonably priced and I get immediate gratification on very good quality bits.
Ron<o =""></o>

[JayStPeter]

I have bits by the majority of mfrs. Like Jim, my preferred brand became Jesada, but not going there now.
As far as less expensive bits go, I've had good luck with Woodline, Az, and will not be going back to MLCS. The Viper and Hickory bits from HD are mediocre. They cut good, but seem to wear out much faster than the higher end bits. The CMT, Whiteside and Freud all seem interchangeable to me (all good). Jesada was at least equal to the others, but had lower prices.
I plan on giving Infinity a shot. They don't have the price advantage that Jesada used to. But, if the bits are of similar quality, I'll still like them.

Jay

[mike lucas]

David, Can you say which type of steel is better for router bit stock, the type your company uses, or this type? (A hot drawing process pulls all the fibers of the steel in one direction resulting in extra strong and resilient bars ) Or do you use this process?

I guess what I am doing here, is try to find out if CMT and Infinity use the same type of steel, or if one is better.

Your web site claims that Infinity bits stay sharp longer then the competition. Is this just a play on words, or for real? Because CMT has always made this claim as well.

[Ted Shrader]

Hi David -

Glad you jumped in. Some of the other tool manufacturers lurk on the board, but rarely join in. Nice to have an opinion from "the other side".

Comment: The Infinity Tool site does not work with Mozilla Firefox (browser of choice to prevent pop-ups and other security vulnerabilities). Any thoughts on wider capabilities?

Welcome,
Ted

[Mike Mastin]

Well speaking of Infinity router bits, I just received a couple this past week. I purchased a 3/8 roundover and a ogee bit in 1/2" shanks. I have not been able to try them out yet though.

[Kent Cori]

Mike,

Once you have a chance to use them, please let us know about your impressions. The expectations of this forum are high and I know many of us would like to see if Infinity can meet them. Of course, don't forget photos if possible to avoid the unwanted attention of the SMC picture police. :)

[David Venditto]

Hello SMC members,

That was a very impressive welcome to the forum, I can only say thank you for the well wishes and kind comments.

Here are the answers to some of your questions:

1) Thanks for letting me know that the site does not work with Mozilla. Any ideas on how to make the site work with Mozilla and Firewire(?) and still work with I.E. ?

2) We are currently doing a very nice giveaway of our 3-Piece Cabinet Door Set at http://www.newwoodworker.com , I think you just sign-up and you've got a chance to win.

3) Our line of bits will keep expanding. I wanted to make sure we had all the most popular bits. When I took over from Corey Spann (he actually started the Infinity brand) he had about 50 items, today we've expanded that to around 250 different profiles, plus blades and shaper cutters. We’ve also put together a couple of sets that are made up of the most popular bits. New bit ideas are very much appreciated. If you think there are some items that we should offer please contact me.

4) As far as the Steel used in our products, I can’t speak for what other manufacturers use in their production of tools but I can say that our steel is ETD 150, Elevated Temperature Drawn (Stressproof and Fatigue proof by trademark). The main advantage is that this material is extremely uniform and non-porous due to its manufacturing process and it takes to machining very well. As opposed to a normal cold rolled 4140 steel, EDT 150 does not need to be heat treated (although some of our products are heat treated for extra strength) because it is already very resistant to breakage. You pay more money for this steel but it is worth it.

5) Our products are made to my specification in various partner factories, mostly in America, Europe and Taiwan. The most critical factor, IMO, is to know what makes the product perform best and building quality into the design. I think this is what sets Infinity apart; we don’t just call a factory and ask them to make us a router bit and paint it silver. We actually send them a detailed engineering print, based on OUR experience as manufacturers, which takes many design elements into account, such as; carbide grade, steel grade, carbide thickness, shear angle, rake angle, bearing spec, coating, and so on. I decide where to have products made primarily on the quality that I feel the factory can produce. Having seen what it takes to set-up a state of the art facility, I have my own opinions as to what type of machinery and Q.C. processes have to be in place to produce consistently high quality.

Thanks for all your time,

David Venditto
Infinity Tools

[Jim Becker]

1) Thanks for letting me know that the site does not work with Mozilla. Any ideas on how to make the site work with Mozilla and Firewire(?) and still work with I.E. ?
The surest way to insure that your site works well in cross-browser situations is to use newer techniques for development, such as CSS (Cascading Style Sheets), to do all your formating, rather than older HTML methods, such as tables, and use tools that do cross-browser compatibility testing right up front. Macromedia Dreamweaver MX is a good example of the latter. There can still be a few minor annomolies, even with CSS, but the code shouldn't preclude anyone from using IE, Mozilla, Mozilla Firefox, Opera, Netscape, etc.

[mike lucas]

David. Thanks for answering my questions.