#8 - My first commission! How much $$???

[John Keeton]

This one is rather simple. Red oak, 7.75 x 1.75 approx. I have tried to improve on the foot treatment, and I used a little different rim treatment with a small cove. Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

A lady I have known for years, works in the local court clerk's office and knows that I do flatwork. I mentioned one day that I had begun turning, and she asked to see some pics. I emailed a few pics of the few turnings that I have done, and she commented that she would buy an oak bowl for her kitchen if I would turn one for her.

So, here it is!

139249139250139251139252

Finish at this point it BLO and shellac. I intend to apply a few coats of wipe on poly.

Now what?? I told her that I would turn it and price it, but she was under no obligation to buy if she didn't like it. But, I never really thought at this point that I could sell anything, and I have no idea what a reasonable price might be.

Any thoughts? Don't be afraid of offending me - just give me some guidance from your experience. I want to price it fairly, but not too cheap that I end up giving them away to non-family, etc.

[Bernie Weishapl]

John not sure about your area but here we are a Ag community. Things don't sell here like in the bigger markets. I have fiddled with my prices on bowls for a couple of years now. This year my bowls did pretty good and for that bowl I would probably get around $35 to $40 here. I sold a 14" X 5" deep salad bowl out of cherry for $95.

[Baxter Smith]

Would you want to make minimum wage or have it sell? At least thats the question I ask myself when I think "what am I going to do with all these bowls?":D I am not up to the minimum wage turning speed yet! At least you would be getting something for having fun!

Your foot looks good along with the little extra's around the rim!

I shall be interested in the sugggestions from the experienced!

[David E Keller]

John,

I think it's very pretty. I'm sure she'll like it. I think Bernie's suggestion would be about right around here... Another rural area. I think you're smart to be cautious about pricing, as you don't want to end up with everyone expecting bowls at a price where you are not satisfied selling them.

My advice... Ask your wife what she thinks it's worth. My wife has kept me from over/under pricing on a few occasions.

Another option would be to turn a couple of different sizes and prices and let the woman choose. That way she gets an original Keeton at a price that she can manage.

Looking forward to what the others have to say.

[Richard Madison]

My demographic is different from Bernie's but the market level is about the same. Assuming no sanding scratches and stuff like that I would put $39 on it and hope someone liked it. All the business type calculations about hours, material cost, overhead, etc. are nearly worthless for most amateurs. What really matters is what your customers will pay for any given item. If my stuff was priced at what I think it's "really" worth or "should be" worth, it would never sell in my area.

Edit: Good advice from David about consulting with your wife. Mine has a much more accurate "take" on the market than I.

[charlie knighton]

very nice, i like the rays in red oak, do a search on golden triangle, form and design woodturning

[Leo Van Der Loo]

This one is rather simple. Red oak, 7.75 x 1.75 approx. I have tried to improve on the foot treatment, and I used a little different rim treatment with a small cove. Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

A lady I have known for years, works in the local court clerk's office and knows that I do flatwork. I mentioned one day that I had begun turning, and she asked to see some pics. I emailed a few pics of the few turnings that I have done, and she commented that she would buy an oak bowl for her kitchen if I would turn one for her.

So, here it is!

139249139250139251139252

Finish at this point it BLO and shellac. I intend to apply a few coats of wipe on poly.

Now what?? I told her that I would turn it and price it, but she was under no obligation to buy if she didn't like it. But, I never really thought at this point that I could sell anything, and I have no idea what a reasonable price might be.

Any thoughts? Don't be afraid of offending me - just give me some guidance from your experience. I want to price it fairly, but not too cheap that I end up giving them away to non-family, etc.

John, Red Oak is a leaker, have you thought about that ???, as you say, it would be for use in the kitchen.

I also think it could stand some more sanding, if your picture #3 speaks the truth, unless that's wax or finish streaking, but should be cleaned up IMO.

In my thinking, as it is a low and fairly small bowl, $45.-- to $50.-- would be a reasonable price for that bowl, and not be overpriced or money left on the table :)

You also have to think for the future, if you like to sell some more pieces, go too cheap and you set a precedent :)

[John Keeton]

Thanks for the input - exactly what I wanted!!

The suggested price range encompasses what I felt would be fair. I had actually thought about $35 tops. Given the comments - maybe $40 ($39?).

Leo, it does need more sanding, but I have not yet acquired any form of power sanding, and that would appear to be the next need. I sanded some by hand, but on oak, that is difficult. I don't think she intends to use the bowl, but more as a decorative feature, so the red oak should work.

Charlie, great suggestion on the search. Got some good info that will help on future turnings.

[Curt Fuller]

I love oak and because I know how hard it can be to get a finished bowl from oak with no cracks and no wild warping I think that makes the bowl pretty special. And I like the simple style bowls like this best. But like the others have said, people just don't seem to want to spend a lot on utility type turnings. It's worth more than the dollar amount you'll get but you'll make up the difference by seeing the smile on her face. After all, how many people own an original, John Keeton signed and numbered piece.

[Reed Gray]

For me, a bowl that size would be in the $25 to $35 range, but I put no details on them, and use a soft (walnut) oil finish on them.

robo hippy

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Great little bowl. I can't comment about pricing as I haven't sold or bought a bowl.



Power sanding is definitely the way to go! Here's what was recommended to me and it's served me well. You do need a fairly good air compressor, however.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=snding-powersand-grexairsand

Congrats on your first commission!

[Mac Carlton]

You can always go down on price but it is hard as ell to go up!!! almost impossible..
nice turning, I tend to price my stuff high so I'll say $49 to $59
PS I like the nines they work.

[Jack Mincey]

I have two prices for all my turnings. I am upfront with people I've known most of my life and consider friends. They are told what the bowl would sell for in the high end shop I sell my turnings at and than let them have it for less than half that price. This Christmas some one that I'd known since high school came by and wanted to buy a bowl for his mother. The bowl he wanted was a nice maple bowl that would sell for around $100.00 in the shop that sells my turnings. I let him have it for $30.00 and had a better feeling from the deal than if it had sold for a $100.00 dollars to a stranger I would never meet. I saw him and his wife at a restrant last night and he had to come over and tell me how much his mother loved the bowl. It was finished with walnut oil so that she may use it in the kitchen, but he said she wouldn't think of using it in that way and that it would be used with some kind of dried arrangement in it. I can't put a price on the good feeling his coments gave me.
Jack

[Thom Sturgill]

John, I would have to second Leo's comments as a 'gut feeling'. I haven't sold yet but not because people haven't asked. My shop is in my SIL's parents house and I'm not sure what it might do to their insurance if I was doing 'commercial' work in their garage. :eek: That said, I have watched what other club members get at some of the events we have done.

There's also a lot to what Jack Mincey said. Find a few high end places to sell your work and get top dollar, but sell to individuals at the same price (or a bit lower for friends) that you get from wholesale, but let them know what 'list' is.

I read a piece a while back about a Canadian turner that sells to only four outlets that get $350-400 per bowl. He gets half as he sells to the outlets wholesale. I believe the article said they are furniture stores. Every one vies to take his entire output and he turns full-time.

[Steve Schlumpf]

John,

Most of us, when we go to start selling our turnings, are faced with the problem of pricing. You don't want to start too low and you don't want to ask a price that scares the buyer away! When I see what a similar turning sells for, I have to remember that the price was achieved after the person had established him/herself as a turner.

You have an advantage over most as you are already have a reputation as a woodworker and should price your work on the higher side of what has been suggested.

You can always offer the family & friends discount if your price is too high - but - can't raise the price. Seeing as how this is your first turning sale - I would suggest $40 to $50 with the emphasis on the higher price.

If someone else saw the bowl, liked it and wanted one just like it - make sure you would be willing to turn another at that same price!

Good luck with your sale! Hope it is the beginning of many!

[Matt Ranum]

For me when I do flat work I just figure materials x 3 and its pretty close to the given market around here, but in turning, and I'm not good enough at it to sell anything yet, I can see where it would be a lot more difficult to price objects. Especially if that wood had come from a firewood pile and not bought as an expensive blank. That being said I would tend to agree with the $35-$39 range.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to make it?

[John Keeton]

Matt, this particular bowl was from a blank that was purchased with a group of others, so I am not sure of the actual cost - probably $10 or so, including a proportionate share of the shipping cost. My time involved is difficult to figure since, like most probably, it was in the chuck over a period of 2 -3 days. Maybe 2.5 - 3 hours total. But, much of that was trying to learn sanding technique on oak - not fun! Maybe 1.5 hours on the form??

I didn't have difficulty getting to final shape with tools/gouges, so I wasn't trying to sand to the form - just trying to get through the grits and not leave the lines. Although I now realize the shape is not quite correct!!:o

But, that is part of the value of doing more turnings - and, seeking input and comment from this talented bunch of turners!!:)

[Scott Lux]

+1 on ask your wife.

[Bob Glenn]

John, nice bowl. I like how you have placed your name in the base. How did you do that?

[Harvey Mushman]

I think that somewhere in the $30-$35 range would be reasonable. It looks like a nice bowl that would go well in a country kitchen. You may find that you will make another sale with the slightly lower price point and gain a good long term customer.

[John Beaver]

For my first sale I told the customer to give me what they thought it was worth. They gave me way more then I would have asked. You might try letting her decide.

[Thomas Canfield]

John,

Can't help you on pricing since my work is all "priceless" and I have to give it away. The bowl shape and general finish looks pretty good and a useful design. Leo's comments seem to be right on about the oak and more sanding. The Norton 3X sandpaper has worked well for me, and now used more than power sanding as my turning skills get a little better. The big thing I have found about sanding is to get the first grit used (no matter if 60, 120, or 180) worked out with no scratches showing and then the following goes very easy and fast. Any scratches need to be removed with the lower grit first. Buffing with Tripoli prior to finishing has also worked well for me when doing a finished piece that has poly in the finish. Tripoli is not used for bowls that have the Walnut Oil for general use and then piece sanded only to 400 grit.

[Jon Finch]

John, I just use one of my random orbital sanders to sand the outside of my bowls. It works great for me. On the inside I just use 2" round pads in a cheap electric drill.

[Richard Madison]

But remember to never undercut your galleries on price. If word gets back to them, your work may no longer be welcome there. You want to be in partnership with your galleries, not competition.

[Allen Neighbors]

John, It's a beautiful bowl, and I agree with Leo. The Red Oak has pores that go straight through the wood, and the bowl will leak, unless the pores are filled... The marks in Pic 3, show some markings from either tool or cloth, but they should be cleaned up.
I think it's awesome that you're going to get to sell some of your stuff. This is only the beginning. I sell bowls of that approximate size, in this area, for 25-40 bucks each. But this area is an ag area, also, so there's not a large market for them right now.
About 3 weeks ago, I donated two bowls for an auction here in town. One was an Ash bowl 10" dia x about 3" deep. The other was a 12" x 3" pine. They brought over $200 bucks each, one of them nearly $400 (don't know which one). Since then I've had more sales of all items I make.
The point I'm trying to make is this: find some sort of charity auction, and donate a couple of items. Make sure you have a card with some comments about each item for the auctioneer to read. It'll boost your sales, and you'll be busier than a one legged man in a bicycle race. :)

[Allen Neighbors]

I didn't have difficulty getting to final shape with tools/gouges, so I wasn't trying to sand to the form - just trying to get through the grits and not leave the lines.

John, I have some inertia sanders that I made from Rollerblade wheels and 1/4-20 all-thread with dowel handles. I glued a 3" disk of flip-flop on the wheel, and then applied velcro to that, so Vince's sanding discs would stick.
All you do is slow the lathe speed down, and let the wheel do the sanding for you. I have one for each grit, from 80 thru 400. Pic of the early ones can be seen here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=69730 Scroll down to post #14

[Brian Effinger]

John, I can't help on the price, since I've only sold a few small things so far (pens & bottle stoppers), but I can say that is a beautiful bowl. I love the rim, especially the fact that it seems you incorporated a flat work element into it with the cove molding below the upper rim. It reminds me of a built-up crown molding on a tall cabinet.

And thanks for posting the thread. I have already learned a lot and hope to learn more from all of the experts here.

Brian

[Kevin J Lalonde]

I normally dont reply to anything. BUT I do appreciate all of the input from the more expreienced turners. You guys really are the best and have taught my so much for FREE!! . Mr. John you have brought this forum to life in the past couple of months and I look forward to each of your posts. I kept up with your work on the flat side of the forum and now do so here. Thanks!! Great looking bowl!!

[Duff Bement]

My idea about the price is that you should charge enough to get a power sander. Makes sense to me?:D:D:D

[John Keeton]

I really appreciate all the input on the marketing concepts. Things one never thinks about until the situation presents.

Also, lot of good comments on sanding. Allen, those sanders you made are slick! But, I have a hard time convincing myself to scrounge together all the parts - would rather go with a powered sander. Maybe just use my cheap drill for starters, and when it burns up, get something better.

Duff had the right idea - sell the bowl for enough to get a sander!;)

BTW, thanks for the supportive comments on the bowl, but I see several areas other than the sanding that need improvement. But, hard to improve if one doesn't do more bowls!! Time to start another one.

Allen, thanks for the tip on the charity auctions - I will look into that. Need to get my quality level up a bit first!

[Sid Matheny]

John I use a cheap die grinder like the one in this link and the fiber disc listed below it. Works great fo me.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93727


Sid

[Duff Bement]

John, be careful about critiquing your own work. They say the difference between a pro and armature is an armature points out all the flaws to the buyer. I know, I have the same problem. :confused: Most of the time, when you point out what you think are glaring imperfections and they say, I wouldn't of even know that wasn't supposed to be there. I am sure that your work better than you think.

[John Keeton]

Duff, you are certainly correct in your observations, but it is difficult at this stage of the game to not take note of the need for major improvement in different areas of form and finish.

Sid, I like that idea!! Not sure about the fiber disks. I just got off the phone with Vince Welch, and I will have an order from him coming in a few days. Do you know if the standard arbor/mandrel on the hook and loop sets is 1/4"? If so, I may go with the die grinder. Looks like my compressor may handle it, though I need to check. I can drive nail guns pretty easily, but a paint sprayer really pushes it. Not sure on the CFM output at 90#.

[Brian Loucks]

John,
Nice bowl. As a hobbiest, when someone asks me to build something for them, mostly flat work, but occasional turned pieces I usually first consut my wife regarding price. She always says, " don't charge anything" if it is a small piece. Generally, I agree since I just enjoy the process, not in it for the money. If I am asked to make a more complex or larger item, I usually charge close to the cost of materials, but make sure my client knows that they are getting a very good deal. Usually I have some scrap left over that I can turn into small projects. I get way more requests than I could ever fulfill since my shop time is limited so I am very selective on the projects I take on. Hopefully in a couple of years when I retire I can begin to contemplate proper pricing.
I enjoy makng things to donate to charities for raffles. Great satisfaction and quite a bit of money can be made for the charity. Also gets your name out there.
Best wishes, Brian

[Jeff Nicol]

John, Whe I first had a request to sell a bowl it was from a friend and some from family. They always get a discount for the first few then they have to payh full price after that. Also they must tell everyone who asks where they got and how much, they say the true sale price. I have gotten more return work from first discounted sales and now the sky is the limit! Also commissioned work of special types, style etc. can garner higher prices. But I believe everyone has given you a good price for that bowl, $30-$40 is good.

Have fun,

Jeff

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I find it hard to rationalize the running of a 3 or 4 HP compressor to spin a airtool, (also a die grinder tend to spin way to fast), when a small electric drill will do.
One of those Close Quarter drills are nice for the job of sanding, they can be had off the net for around $30.-- or so.

I have and use sanding mandrels with the foam and velcro on them, better to get half a dozen, you can leave the sandpaper on them and just switch mandrels, they will not get as hot or torn by constantly changing paper, and so last much longer, the same thing Alan does with his sanders.

Here's the drill I'm talking about, they do come in black also :D

[Sid Matheny]

John I'm not sure what "standard arbor/mandrel on the hook and loop sets" you are referring to. I have some of the hook & loop fiber pads but the twist lock work better. I use the twist lock and the fiber pads which are like scotch brite pads. I also have the twist lock sanding pads but hardly ever use them.

Sid