Poplar Dye Problem

[Doug Hobkirk]

I am new to refinishing poplar (zero projects) and dying wood in general (I've dyed about 6 projects total). Today's project, a mirror, went very well until the final side. Two sections wouldn't take the dye (TransTint Brown Mahogany). I tried brute force (flooding the area with a second coat of dye) and made it worse. I had planned to follow the dye with some stain - Minwax dark walnut or Zar Moorish Teak (almost a gel). The final pictures are after a quick grain knockdown using a white mesh pad.

HELP! It's time to see if anyone can make suggestions.

[Scott Holmes]

How did you remove the old finish?

Sanding is a poor way to remove old finish; unless you are using a floor sander and removing an 1/8" of wood.

I'll guess the problem is poorly removed old finish, or something got on the wood to seal it. Glue maybe?

[Doug Hobkirk]

The entire front was sanded thoroughly. The old finish was a light blond and I sanded it off using a 6" ROS, 80 and then 180. The inside and outside edges were sanded much more lightly. The only area on the edges that didn't turn out well (which doesn't bother me) is shown in the first photo.

If the problem were insufficient finish removal, I would think


it would have shown up on the edges and
the dye would have beaded up on area that refused to accept dye.

Wrong? I can certainly belt sand the face with 50 grit and then repeat the sanding with the ROS - and I will if that's the judgment of this forum. But it doesn't feel to me like that's the solution - I think I will have the same problem after the new sanding. Doesn't Poplar refuse to take stain evenly sometimes?

[Scott Holmes]

Yes poplar is a dificult wood to stain and not much better to dye.

However sanding is still not an effective way of removing old finish. Sanding pushes the old finish deeper into the pores and it can't get it out unless you remove alot of wood. It also tends to burnish the wood which will also add to the blotchy problems that poplar exhibits.

Another possible problem is you said "I sanded it off using a 6" ROS, 80 and then 180." This indicates that you skipped from 80 grit to 180 missing 100, 120, & 150.

Jumping from 120 to 180 is OK; but from 80 to 180 is not an effective nor an effiecent jump.

A chemical stripper is much better at getting old finish out of the grain of the wood.

[Greg Just]

I agree with Scott that you might try a chemical stripper to open the pours of the wood. I dye poplar all the time, but it has never been finished before.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Doug,
I read somewhere that the white abrasive pad has talc in it as an abrasive. Knowing that, I usually clean any surface I use it on with a chemical prior to applying more finish.
Poplar is really an unsatisfying wood to color with anything other than paint. Don't feel like you have necessarily done something wrong if stains and dyes don't produce good results.
fmr

[Jim Becker]

I'll agree with both the points about the abrasive grit progression as well as the need to use a chemical stripper to fully insure that all finish is removed from the wood, especially when it's going to be dyed/stained as that is a process that requires good (and relatively consistent) penetration of the wood.



Poplar is really an unsatisfying wood to color with anything other than paint.

'Fraid I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one...so much of the furniture I've build over the years has been from tulip poplar (off our property) dyed with water soluble dyes and I've been extremely pleased with the end results.

[David Christopher]

after you get everything sanded off, you can put on sanding sealer then use a toner or stain and it will not blotch

[Pete McMahon]

[QUOTE=J. Scott Holmes;1320064]Yes poplar is a dificult wood to stain and not much better to dye.

There is a Master Carpenter article in FHB issue 206, November 09 that used dyes to match poplar to cherry. Have you per chance seen it? There is a picture of a poplar door that is adjacent to cherry cabinets. It looked pretty successful to me.

[Rob Cunningham]

I've had good luck dying Poplar with Transtint dyes. I add the TT to a 50/50 mixture of water/denatured alcohol. Rather than flooding the surface, I spray light coats and build up to the color I want. The alcohol helps the dye to dry quickly so you get a more even color with no blotching.
I agree with others, it looks like you still have some old finish remaining. Skipping from 80 to 180 is a pretty big step.

[Scott Holmes]

[QUOTE=J. Scott Holmes;1320064]Yes poplar is a dificult wood to stain and not much better to dye.

As apposed to ash or oak. Poplar is a wood that tends to have alot of latent grain and is prone to blotching. Ditto for maple and birch


There is a Master Carpenter article in FHB issue 206, November 09 that used dyes to match poplar to cherry. Have you per chance seen it? There is a picture of a poplar door that is adjacent to cherry cabinets. It looked pretty successful to me.

Have not seen the article. Dye is a much better way to color woods that have latent grain. I made a piece of melaine/particle board look like Brazilian Rosewood. It dosen't stain well either!

[Pete McMahon]

[QUOTE=Pete McMahon;1320349]

Have not seen the article. Dye is a much better way to color woods that have latent grain. I made a piece of melaine/particle board look like Brazilian Rosewood. It dosen't stain well either!


The melamine sounds like fun. Was it for a project? I've turned painted doors into mahogany and like melamine they don't stain well either.