Plastic name tag engraving

[Ron Chapellaz]

Here's a question for the forum...Hope some of you can help.

When working on laserable plastics, it seems that the letters tend to be thicker looking at times even though I have not bolded them. I have a Zing 35 Watt and use Corel Draw 12. I've owned it for 2 months, and am still learning the ropes.

It doesn't matter what font type or the color of plastic I use. I have tried the focus set to the plastic and also tried (according to the zing manual) 1/16" lower. Both have the same result. Settings at 500 DPI, 100 speed, 25 power. I have tried 2 passes with no change.

Attached is the image.

This forum has helped me in the past and down the road I hope I can be of help to the newbee's starting up here as well.

Thanks in advance,
Ron

[Scott Shepherd]

Ron, is that any font, any text, or just this one font, or just this one job?

[Ron Chapellaz]

Thanks for being so quick Scott!

It is any font (such as Aldine and arial), any text and any job in plastic, and even in 1/8" baltic birch.
I did some engraving in laser brass and it seemed ok, but it is likely because the engraving is only done on the surface and not actually cut deep.

Any ideas??

Ron

[donald bugansky]

Does it happen on the same spot or area on the table?

Could the table be out (not parallel) to the laser head and hence cutting "heavier" in certain areas of the table?

Just a thought?

[Ron Chapellaz]

I have tried it at the top left corner, and going down as far as 6" from that with the same result. My wife thought the table may be out as well, if that is possible. I should mabye try another test at the bottom right corner to see if the results are the same. Engravers express here in Canada mentioned that it may have something to do with it needing a belt adjustment. He is waiting to hear back from Epilog.

Thanks for the reply Don!
Ron

[Doug Lynch]

I would try rotating the work 90 degrees. That should give you more info to work with. If the letters are still wide then I would say not a belt problem. If the letters are not wide but maybe a little taller then it might be a belt problem?

[Ron Chapellaz]

Thanks Doug, I'll give that a try tomorrow.

[Carl Sewell]

What's the font point size? If it's a small font, try slowing down your speed. In fact, even if it isn't a small font, drastically slow down your speed and see what happens.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Hi Carl,

The font size is 20 in either Aldine or Arial. It seems to be better in an arial than Aldine.
I will give your suggestion a try Carl and see what happens.

Doug, I tried rotating the work 90 degrees. I duplicated the name several times and noticed that some of the engraving was slightly out of focus yet others were perfectly clear. I still had the same problem with the thickness in the font though. I even taped down my work just to make sure that it was set in place.

[Bob Davis]

It could be a matter of the heat generated by the beam distorting the plastic (making each end curl upwards and resulting in a non-parallel surface) and giving a distorted image.
If so, you could try less power or tape/magnets to keep it flat or a different brand of plastic.

Oops! - just saw your latest reply and that you'd tried tape.

[AL Ursich]

I am with Bob, as it could be a heat problem.... 25% Power.... Try 15% power and 2 passes.... What does that plastic do?

If not try 250 or 300 dpi.... rather then 500 dpi.

I think you need to just try some different settings...

And your sure it is laser plastic..? Saw a post a while back and someone got some Rotary Plastic and was confused with the Laser Results.

AL

[Mike Null]

I would check to see if the plastic was perfectly flat. Both Rowmark and IPI have had instances where the plastic was not flat thus out of focus.


Some fonts do not engrave well so I would experiment with fonts to see if you can find some which are better than others.

Arial and Times New Roman are old standbys.

[Tim Bateson]

I'm with Mike on this one - Focus - that might mean your lens and/or mirrors are not clean enough or not properly aligned. Also check that your work area is level.

[Dan Hintz]

Doug, I tried rotating the work 90 degrees. I still had the same problem with the thickness in the font though.
That knocks out a few possibilities...

[Ron Chapellaz]

I have tried both laserable plastic and non laserable with rowmark and another brand to see if there was a difference, and there wasn't. I will have to play around with different power settings to see if that makes a difference.

Mike, I agree that the font choice may have something to do with it. I thought that by choosing arial that it may make a difference. To a degree it has helped but it is still noticeable.

As I am still new to this laser process I will have to look at the focus being out and the table too. Time to get out the manual....

I am used to my rotary engraver which has given me perfect results for the last 20 years. Too bad it is a dinosaur, but I've never had any trouble with it whatsoever.

Thank you everyone for your input! I will try various settings and if I manage to get things to work, I will post my settings to the forum.

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

I have seen this in Corel under different conditions.
When the problem "haunts" me, I convert the text to curves before I do any manipulation of the text and that cures it for me.

[Scott Balboa]

What a mystery...

In my experience, both laserable and non-laserable plastics engrave about the same in terms of consistency with letter thickness. I have never engraved on any plastic other than Rowmark and Innovative. I've engraved 10+ signs on non-laserable rowmark and still ended up with a decent result, the only major difference being that the plastic looks "glittery" in the wider rastered portions of the letters, but their plastic is rarely made so inconsistent that different parts have different engraving results. I've engraved probably 1000+ decent sized plastic jobs and never experienced your kind of scenario.

My guess is that it is not the settings nor the plastic, but something with the machine. If your focus is off, or your settings are wack, I would assume you'd see consistent results across the board, regardless (i.e. all bold letters, or all too-thin).

What kind of plastic are you using?

[Mike Null]

You don't see consistent results if the plastic is warped. It doesn't warp uniformly and causes the out of focus condition. It is more common than you would imagine.

Today I had both IPI and Rowmark with slight warping.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Scott, I am using IPI and Rowmark plastic. Paul, I will also give your suggestion a try.

Mike, I taped down the 4 sides of the plastic. Shouldn't that prevent the warpage? I also see the thicker engraving with the same letters. If it was due to warpage it should do it to every character and not to a select few. If it is determined that is is the font, then what types of fonts should I use then? I tried arial which so far has been the best, but what other fonts are best for plastic?
I'm working on sublimation today but I'll be back to the laser tomorrow and I will give it another round of testing based on everything I've read here.

Thanks everyone!

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't think it's a material problem. If it was, it wouldn't be the same on various materials.

I think it's a machine problem, but that's just my opinion.

[Scott Challoner]

You may want to post a cdr of a file this is happenening to here. I could run it and see if I get the same results. It could be something goofy in Corel.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Well I thought I would post a cdr file and take a look into this issue again. I zoomed in on the text and discovered that it does appear that way on screen, but certainly not as noticeable as when it is on plastic.
I am so used to my 20 year old rotary engraver with a single line block font for doing name tags. It provides consistant character width ever time. Maybe I am just "old school"?
That being said what fonts do fellow creekers use to get consistant line thickness? It isn't as bad with Arial. Any suggestions?

Thanks to all for your input and to Scott for offering up his time to try it on his machine...It is greatly appreciated!

Ron

[Scott Challoner]

I use Arial all the time and have never seen anything like that. It's like you have a hairline around some of it. Maybe go to object properties and make sure you don't have a hairline?

[Ron Chapellaz]

No hairline here Scott. I did however clean up the beam as it was dirty. I just discovered that a cleaning kit should have come with the machine. One is now on its way. I will have to look into cleaning things up and also finding out how to align things as well.

[Mike Null]

What kind of machine did you buy?

[Bob Davis]

would be to ascertain whether it is the laser or the substrate as being the root cause of the problem.
Engraving a grid of lines (around 1mm thick) onto a flat surface such as anodised ali should give a good indication of whether or not the machine is doing what it is supposed to.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Here is the cdr file if some of you think it may help me to figure this one out.
As mentioned before it does do this onto wood as well, so I'm not sure that it is the substrate. As I am still new to this, would a dirty lens or mirror be the cause? This machine was a demo model that looked cleaned up, and I've only put in about 7 hrs on it, so far mostly in 1/8" plywood (4 hrs) with a bit now in plastic and painted brass. I've got an exhaust system that pulls out 690 CFM's which should be good enough to get the fumes and smoke out quickly.

[Mike Null]

I've never heard of the demo brand. :rolleyes: The reason for asking the brand is so tech support people who monitor this forum can help or so that others who have the same machine can help.

Yes, the dirty optics can cause the problem. Did you get or can you download an owners manual?

Other than cleaning the lens and mirrors, don't attempt to loosen or move the mirrors unless you have determined that they are out of alignment. I doubt that is your problem.

You must check your optics frequently and clean them with the proper materials.

[Stephen Kane]

Ron

You are using 'paragraph' text. I always use 'Artistic' . I can't check further as i don't have the font.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Sorry Mike, I should have made myself more clear. I bought a demonstration model Epilog Zing 16 - 35 Watt. I also updated my personal info now to reflect that.

I do have the owners manual. I'll have to check it to see about cleaning it once I get the cleaning kit from Epilog.

Stephen, yes I did use paragraph text. I'll try it with artistic to see if it makes a difference.

[Mike Null]

Cleaning the lens and mirrors is very important and could be the cause of your problems. You can go to a camera store and get a lens cleaning kit or to a liquor store and buy a product called Everclear. Use cotton Q-Tips.

I don't think I'd wait if you plan to continue using the machine. You could damage your lens and spend a couple of hundred for a replacement.

[Scott Balboa]

I'm still having a hard time believing this is anything having to do with the font, the plastic, or anything else mentioned. It sounds too random. I've never engraved using an Epilog, but I've engraved a lot of plastic with everything from warping to a nasty lens and never experienced what you're going through. And I use Arial all the time and it should be 100% problem free except for the occasional need to kern letters apart or together.

[Mike Null]

I have experienced exactly the same thing with more than one font. It appears to be a focus issue with either the lens or warped material.

Too much power can be a cause of warping on thin plastics.

[Doug Lynch]

Please keep up posted as to what you find out about this.

Doug Lynch

[Ron Chapellaz]

I will keep the forum posted. I have a cleaning kit coming from Engravers Express here in Canada. I am taking Mike's advice and will resume the testing once I have cleaned it up. I was surprised on how little info there is on cleaning a zing laser compared to other models. This is an area I feel Epilog could improve upon. I thought they should have a video on their website as to how to properly clean things up seeing as you could cause damage if not done well. I did find out that the mirror unscrews so that I can get to cleaning the lens.
In the meantime my New Hermes Vanguard engraver will be put back into service until this is all resolved.
By the way Mike, I do have everclear in my liquor cabinet (potent stuff I might add) but thought I would wait to see what the cleaning kit all comes with and go from there as this will be my first cleaning.

For those of you not familiar with the zing here's a couple of photos of the mirror, lens and X-beam.

Thanks everyone for all of your input. I'll keep in touch!

[Scott Balboa]

"By the way Mike, I do have everclear in my liquor cabinet (potent stuff I might add)..."

Now I see why your letters are looking inconsistently blurry! :D At least step back down to the 80 proof...

[Dan Hintz]

Anything that says 190 proof on it is a guaranteed liver killer! Scary stuff, that everclear. Down a shot of that instead of your typical vodka and you'll need some scraping from the floor later.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Alright, here's an update...
I received my cleaning kit and cleaned the main mirror and lens. I also removed the left side and cleaned the mirror there. I could not get it clean so I removed the mirror for a closer look. The mirror has a bunch of marks in it. I called the company I bought it from and I sent them these photos to see what they think.

Now I am wondering if this is what may be giving me my trouble when I engrave text into plastic.
This machine was as I mentioned before a demo, and I have put on only about 5 hours of use on it so far.

What do you all think, could this be the source of my problems, or is the mirror still ok ?

[Martin Boekers]

I've had issues like that with an outline box around the type, that one side was thicker than the other. (I wished I saved that in a journal then I could tell you how I fixed it.):o

It looks like it's in the same spot all the time not just particular letters.

I want to say it was an encoder strip issue but I'm not sure.

Epilog tech support straighten it out for me quickly though.

What type of machine do you have?


Marty

[Ron Chapellaz]

Martin, I've got a Zing 16 35 Watt as written in my profile. There is no encoder strip on the zing, so at least I don't that as an issue to deal with.

[Martin Boekers]

Can you turn the mirror or does it go in only one way?

If you can turn it try that to see if the problem shifts or is in the same spot.

A demo is probally still under warranty. Call Epilog they are good at having a replacemnet part to you the next day.

Marty

[Ron Chapellaz]

Taking a look at it, I can turn the mirror. I think I'll give that a try tomorrow and see what happens..Stay tuned!

[Bill Cunningham]

That mirror does look 'flakey' at the edge.. If you have a red dot on the zing, turn it on and see where it hits the mirror. If that's the spot, then that's the problem. I had one that looked like that after about 4 years use. It may have got some crud on it, heated up, and ruined that part of the surface.. Rotating it should do the trick, but you will have to re-align it afterwards. Epilog can supply a .pdf that will walk you through it. If it's under warranty, they will probably send you a new mirror as well..

[Dan Hintz]

I also see quite a bit of streaking on that second pic... you may want to review proper cleaning methods as you should see a perfectly clear surface once the alcohol dries.

[Ron Chapellaz]

Here's an update:
I am getting a new mirror from my supplier. I'd like to turn this mirror but now I will have to re-align things and I never received the alignment card. I also have to get in some safety glasses as well...
So I'll be out of commission for a few more days...

[Bill Cunningham]

Epilog had a .pdf that outlines alignment, and the glasses are just clear plastic safety glasses. Nothing special, and found at any hardware store. Epilog set me a pair with the new mirror and tube when I had to do a replacement

[Ron Chapellaz]

Well time for an update here with my quest for consistant depth when engraving....
Tonight, I am lasering into 1/8" baltic birch ply, all taped down to keep things flat. I am engraving 24 identical pieces: 4 columns X 6 rows on a single sheet. I am still using the old mirror as Epilog sent me the wrong one this week. I cleaned everything up and rotated the damaged mirror to see if that would make a difference. I did an alignment as well. What I see now is the engraving is looking bolded going up the column from piece to piece in the exact same spot. Looking over to the next row is the same thing but in a different area of engraving. SO it appears almost like a band that runs up the row. Different row= different bolding. So it definitely has a repeating pattern running through it. Has anyone seen a vertical banding effect with their laser? I know I will eventually get this pinned down with the help of the members of this forum... New mirror should be here next week, but not sure if that will solve the problem.