Need some insight...C Frame vs welded steel bandsaws

[George Farra]

I'm in the market for a 14" bandsaw. Primary uses are to cut curves, joinery, occassional resaw. I'm sure I'll come up with more reasons to use the saw later :)

I was originally focused on 14" C Frame saws w/ 1hp motors to which I'd add a riser block. Given that set up, max resaw would be 12", but I'd most likely be in the 10" range.

I then stumbled upon the Rikon 14" Deluxe, SC 14" Deluxe, and another by Jet....they are either welded steel frames or C Frames with 12-14" resaw capacity and 1.5hp motors.

Given these new machines, would there be a reason to look at the ones that need a riser.....other than price?? I'm not super limited on space, but I am in a basement shop so height is a contraint....but the new saws don't exceed 7 feet tall so I think I'm good.

Are welded steel saws better than cast iron c-frames? I guess the c-frames would get into my basement easier sinec I can move the upper and lower sections separately...right?

which way to go? what else should i be thinking about?

TIA

George

[Myk Rian]

I have a Delta 14" w/riser. I feel the cast iron is more rigid than a welded frame.
Taking the top off doesn't save you much in weight. They only weigh 25lbs.

[Bill White]

Vanilla vs: chocolate in my opinion. I've heard arguments on both sides, so go with what ya want/need.
Bill

[Van Huskey]

It isn't cast or steel that is the issue, both can be done well or poorly. You have to purchase based on a particular saw not just on this criteria.

In the 14" range I would look at Rikon, Grizzly, Jet, PM and certainly Laguna if you have the coin.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have a PM 14" with riser, and given the specs of the new Rikon, I'd take a serious look at it. I seen it at a local woodshow, and it's got a lot for the price. It was on sale for 699, which is a lot less than the PM without a riser.
The steel frames cannot be modified, so if you got the Rikon, you're stuck at at what you get, but I think it's 13". The steel frames also have a slightly larger footprint, if that is a concern. As said earlier, chocolate or vanilla?

[Van Huskey]

I think Woodcraft is going to have a 10% off Rikon sale in about a month, they should start pre-selling at that price in about a week.

[George Farra]

Thanks everyone

I'll keep my eye on the pricing of the Rikon. Please excuse my ignorance on this tool.....but does one style do some tasks better than others?

Thanks

George

[Brian Kent]

I'll just join in on the question. How wide a resaw blade can a good cast iron saw with a riser handle?

My Grizzly 513X2 (welded steel) saw takes a 3/4" well and theoretically takes a 1" blade but with difficulty changing blades.

A friends with a cast iron saw with riser and upgraded motor (1-1/2 or 2 hp) does excellent resawing with a 1/2" blade.

[George Farra]

Brian

Thats actually a pretty good question, which I didn't even think of.

George

[Van Huskey]

I'll just join in on the question. How wide a resaw blade can a good cast iron saw with a riser handle?

My Grizzly 513X2 (welded steel) saw takes a 3/4" well and theoretically takes a 1" blade but with difficulty changing blades.

A friends with a cast iron saw with riser and upgraded motor (1-1/2 or 2 hp) does excellent resawing with a 1/2" blade.


I have always wondered this as well, tensioning a large blade mght become an ssue with the riser but have never heard anyone mention this.

One other point about steel BSs is take solice knowing the Italians use steel frames in anything that would be in a hobby shop (well bought new anyway) and they are known for making the best BSs.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Cast iron is traditional but steel frames can be very strong if they are well designed. I wouldn't feel real comfortable putting a 3/4" high tension blade on a 14" saw, either cast iron or steel. One of the lower tension blades may be ok. The wheels aren't wide enough and the stock guides are too small, and bending a thick wide blade around 14" wheels may contribute to faster wear.

My 16" Walker Turner is strong enough to tension a 3/4" blade and theoretically ok for a 1" blade but I find that a 1/2" Woodslicer does such a nice job with resaw that I don't use my 3/4" blade except for when I know I might hit a nail or something. I've gone through a lot of thick walnut with my Woodslicer and it still cuts beautifully. A wider blade isn't always necessary for resaw, the tooth design and guide set up is much more important.

[Van Huskey]

Cast iron is traditional but steel frames can be very strong if they are well designed. I wouldn't feel real comfortable putting a 3/4" high tension blade on a 14" saw, either cast iron or steel. .


Depends on the 14" saw, I have seen a Laguna 14SUV tension a 1" blade with NO issues, but it does only have a 14" resaw height. :D

[Callan Campbell]

I have the 14" Rikon, bought it about 2 years ago. It's done everything I've needed so far. I have tried a 3/4" blade yet with resawing so I can't speak to that. I think others have pretty much covered it all but I'll throw a couple of more things at you. With many of the newer steel frame BS units, you're already at 12" or better resaw height with no riser block needed. Not every Band Saw works as well once you've added a riser block if there was any lingering issue with either the cast frame or the riser block. Just Google or search these archives to see what I'm talking about. Every once in awhile a batch of old style Band Saws seem to get made that drive people nuts when they try to add a riser kit to them. Alignment issues are the problem.
Look for the following features in any band saw- 1HP or better if you want easier resawing. Most people like 1 1/2HP as a minimum it seems.
Built-in brushes for your tires/wheels, or an easy place to mount them as an add-on inside the machine
Good dust collection ports built-in, adding is possible, but not nearly as easy most of the time
Quick release lever for loosening the blade, helps help maint. issues at bay alot longer like stretched blades, flat spots on tires.
Easy access to whatever blade guide system you fall in love with. You'll probably start a fire around here if you pick bearings versus blocks versus ceramic. Everyone seems to swear by their set-up
Learn to love Carter Products, or at least know who they are. They often can help change a bad habit of your machine with a fairly priced kit.
2 speed/range machines are nice if you need to change things up when working with a wide range of materials. Really check out how the factory makes you go about doing this. Some range change belt systems are very easy to use, like on my Rikon, others are a major pain. Same goes for motor drive belts and tensioning set-ups too.Other people have used single speed models for years and love them too.
A light is nice too, flexible neck styles seem the most common. They may or may not be electrically wired into the main machine wiring, I think some one out there makes you buy 220 volt bulbs if you wire the motor to 220volt instead of stock 120volt since the light doesn't have an external cord to run it[Powermatic? maybe?]
Have fun, I know I regret not buying a Band Saw way sooner than I did, I put too many tools ahead of buying one since I was a bit afraid of supposedly hard-to-maintain band saws.

[Curt Harms]

I moved mine to my basement by myself. The base is separate and in pieces. The saw ships with the table off so it goes down stairs separately. Take as many parts out of the main box as you can then slide the saw frame, box and all, down the steps. I have a steel beam in the basement and hooked a come-along over the steel beam and used that to lift the saw onto the base. I later build a wooden base which was lower than the stock base because I'm lower:). I'm sure that a well executed cast iron saw is better than a poorly executed steel framed saw. The opposite is also true. The 14" Rikon is probably not a good choice for bowl blanks or heavy duty resawing. I resawed 8" hard maple yesterday with no issues, plenty of power and the same speed as any other 3000 foot/minute blade speed saw. A good blade also goes a long way toward good performance. After all, it's not the saw that does the cutting, it's the blade.