Jumpin in the deep end.....

[Bob Rath]

I've been getting closer and closer to the purchase of my first laser. I've been learning Corel X4 and working with a friend's Epilog EXT (30watt) for the last 6 months or so and its about time to go it alone. I'm somewhat familiar with the Epilog and have had in depth discussions with a ULS owner, but am not sure which way to go. I read the fairly extensive post in the Sawmill Creek thread comparing Epilog to ULS and it seems to me that its pretty much of a toss up with each having a couple of unique features. After using the 30 watt Epilog of my friend, I'm thinking I'd like a bit more power, but don't need the large bed of the EXT (maybe a Helix 45watt?). I'm a woodworker who plans on using the laser for a variety of engraving/marquetry applications but I recognize that to defray this significant investment, I may try to pick up some "side jobs" and since I don't know where that may lead, I want a machine with some versatility.
Anyone with either a ULS or Epilog, I'd like to hear your first hand accounts, horror stories and guidance before I pull the trigger (which I hope to do in the next month). Thanx

[James Jaragosky]

I do not own either machine. I do on occasion operate a Epilog when a local sign shop needs a hand.
Almost weekly, you will find a post From a Epilog owner asking for help with some issue or another, and the first suggestion is always; did you clean your encoder strip? Why this weak link in an otherwise fine machine has not been replaced is beyond me.
USL owners do have problems as well, However recently I see more posts from Epilog owners.
Both companies seem to have outstanding customer support.
Jim J.

[Dave Garcia]

Robert,

It appears that you've only looked at a small portion of the machines that are out there. You might want to have a look at LCC LaserPro, Pinnacle and or TroTec before you spend this kind of money. There are plenty of strings on this forum addressing each. And even though Epilog appears to be the machine of choice, I'm not so sure that they are the overall best.

Talk to some of the folks on this forum about the Pinnacle, LaserPro and especially the Trotec Speedy 100/300, before you take that final plunge regardless of your expose to just two machines, or did I miss-read your post?

Also if you're a Mac user, you are somewhat limited. There is a pretty good string in this forum on that issue alone.

All the best.

Dave Garcia :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Mike Null]

Robert

welcome to SMC.

There is a major show in Las Vegas in late February where all brands will be shown. It's the ARA Show.

If you have the opportunity I would strongly recommend visiting that show for a couple of days to see all the machines first hand.

[Dan Hintz]

Robert,

I do not think you can go truly wrong with either an Epilog or a ULS machine. It's great that you've had some experience with at least one of them, as you know 10 times more about what you'd like to get out of the machine from a practical standpoint.

I chose ULS over Epilog because of the encoder strip issue... as James mentioned, at the time I was making my decision there were a large number of threads mentioning messed up projects due to dirty encoder strips, faulty cables, etc. The second reason was I did not like the rotary design where the object is laid on top of two wheels, and (at the time) laser cartridge refills were significantly more expensive (but now they're pretty much equal in price). when they're working, however, they make excellent products.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a downside to the ULS machines. Updated drivers are much slower to come to fruition (we still do not have 64-bit OS support, Epilog has had it for months), and sometimes you have to struggle a little more to get proper support (though it's not like they leave you high and dry, you just have to bug people a bit more at times).

I have very limited first-hand experience with Epilog machines, but I felt more comfortable with the ULS control panel program (it gave me more options for control, even if I didn't use those options immediately).

[David Fairfield]

No encoder strip issues here. I clean it about once every 6 months or so, or after very sooty, dirty jobs like cutting a large batch of rubber gaskets.

Dave

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

Machines are one thing, and them there is the dealer issue.

A good dealer/service can turn any problem and make it good.
A poor dealer/service (or none) and you are stuck.

Get to know your dealer in your area.

[Scott Shepherd]

It additional to what's already been said, what's your plan? I know you mentioned it as a hobby with some side work, but how important to you is speed. I think James posted a file he ran recently and posted the time to run at 40 or 50 minutes when the same file ran on my ULS in about 20 minutes. So is time important to you in your endeavor or is it not so important. If you're running a business, I'd hope time is important. If you're doing it as hobby, then time probably isn't as important.

It's all in what you plan to do with it and how you plan to use it. Epilog and Universal both have their own demons. Neither is better, just different demons to battle.

If you read the comparison you mentioned, it was written by me, when I had both an Epilog and a Universal in house at the same time. If you have specific questions, let me know and I'll see if I can answer them. I wouldn't steer you towards one or the other, but rather educate you with what I have learned and then you can make your own decision.

[James Jaragosky]

It additional to what's already been said, what's your plan? I know you mentioned it as a hobby with some side work, but how important to you is speed. I think James posted a file he ran recently and posted the time to run at 40 or 50 minutes when the same file ran on my ULS in about 20 minutes. So is time important to you in your endeavor or is it not so important. If you're running a business, I'd hope time is important. If you're doing it as hobby, then time probably isn't as important.

It's all in what you plan to do with it and how you plan to use it. Epilog and Universal both have their own demons. Neither is better, just different demons to battle.

If you read the comparison you mentioned, it was written by me, when I had both an Epilog and a Universal in house at the same time. If you have specific questions, let me know and I'll see if I can answer them. I wouldn't steer you towards one or the other, but rather educate you with what I have learned and then you can make your own decision.

Scott, I never got my machine to do the file in less than 27 minutes. The 50 minute time you mentioned was done as vector only. I did get much better times using a raster mode for most of the file.
But for a sub $6000 machine I can live with the 7 minute time difference. Time is not as important to me as it is to those that have main stream business models.
And to clear up something else, the Chinese machines that I have owned all allow you to set power and speed from the software, the Knob is for manual adjustment.
Jim J.

[Martin Boekers]

Yes Epilog does have encoder strip issues from time to time, at least those are easily fixed!

The problems start to occur when we get a bit complacent and maybe "relax" on some of the routine maintenance.

It doesn't matter if it's ULS or Epilog or Trotec etc. These machines run smooth and reliable so like I mentioned above, sometimes regular maintenance is missed:rolleyes:

A clean machine is a happy machine!:D

Marty

[James Stokes]

I would say both machines are about equal. Any of them can have problems at times. If you are buying it to do marquetry type work, I would advise you to buy the most power you can afford. Some of the hardwoods can be very difficult to cut if cuttable. I have run across several that I can not even think about cutting.

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott, I never got my machine to do the file in less than 27 minutes. The 50 minute time you mentioned was done as vector only. I did get much better times using a raster mode for most of the file.
But for a sub $6000 machine I can live with the 7 minute time difference. Time is not as important to me as it is to those that have main stream business models.
And to clear up something else, the Chinese machines that I have owned all allow you to set power and speed from the software, the Knob is for manual adjustment.
Jim J.

James, you've changed your requirements on that "7 minute difference". I ran it out the box, as you did. You went back and tuned it and took time off. I mentioned in my post on that thread that I ran it at 600DPI and if I dropped down one setting, the time would be substantially less. If you'd like me to change the setting and then give you the new time, I'm happy to, but it's not a 7 minute difference.

I have no problems with people that own any machine. If that makes you happy, then great. For me, 7 minutes per job, on the 100's and 100's and 100's of things I make, would cost me a small fortune. 7 minutes per 30 minute job is 14 minutes per hour, or 112 minutes every 8 hours. So I'd lose 2 hours of production every day it ran. My shop rate is $120 per hour on the laser, so that "7 minutes" would cost me $240 a day. Doesn't take too many of those days to upgrade to something faster.

But, if you don't run the laser all day, it really doesn't matter, which is exactly what I said in my post above.