Extension cords and shop equipment

[Betsy Yocum]

ok - I'm going to be vunerable and show my electrical ignorance. Despite wiring my shop (I had a master electrician check all my wiring, attached everything to the box and wire in the 220 - he said I did good "for a woman!:mad: ), I'm not all that happy with where I placed the 220 for the TS.

What I'd like to know is can an extension cord be made to give me an extra two or three feet of play so I can move my saw to accommodate larger material? I'm guessing the answer would be yes - but no. Yes it can be made, but it shouldn't.

I really don't want the expense of having another electrician come over to move the outlet. But will if I have to. I'm thinking a cord would be cheaper.

Thanks for the advice!
Betsy

[Bruce Page]

Betsy, you could just put a longer cord on the TS. The cord on my Unisaw is #10AWG & probably 10' long. I don't think the wire & plug cost me over $20 - $25

[Don Abele]

Betsy, not sure if I'm right either, but I have several 240v extension cords. While I don't make it a habit to use them too often, I occasionally do. I don't know for certain if you can buy them. I made mine from some flexible 10/2 wiring I got from work - it was from a 440v welder, so I know it'll handle whatever I throw at it. I specifically use one of my extensions (about 10 feet) when I take my welder into the driveway.

Be well,

Doc

[Betsy Yocum]

Betsy, you could just put a longer cord on the TS. The cord on my Unisaw is #10AWG & probably 10' long. I don't think the wire & plug cost me over $20 - $25
That makes sense - but getting into the saw's switch panel looks kind of complicated and tight. I think I might be a bit out of my league getting into the switch panel and getting it all back in.

Do you think the extension cord idea is a bad one?

[Betsy Yocum]

Thanks Doc - sounds like it would be ok to do the cord extension. I'm sure I can make one - just was not sure if it would be safe to do so.


Betsy

[Carole Valentine]

Betsy, I use one with my Unisaw. The electrician made it up for me when he wired the shop. It's a heavy rascal!

[Betsy Yocum]

Betsy, I use one with my Unisaw. The electrician made it up for me when he wired the shop. It's a heavy rascal!
That makes me feel better. Think I'll be taking a spin to the hardware store to get the wire. Should make my shop lay out a whole bunch better.

Thanks Carole!
Betsy

[Jim Becker]

Like Doc, I also use several 240v extension cords that I made up specifically for the task. I used the rubber-coated 12-3 and twist locks for each--these are 20 amp circuits and are for the TS and the BS. The extension is neede for latter because it only has a pigtail on it and the one for the is TS so that I can have an easily accessable quick disconnect when changing blades. (The outlet is behind a cabinet and not accessable without much effort) Both are long enough to do the job with only minimal excess for flexibility.

[Joe Scarfo]

Betsy,

I use a 10 guage extension cord for my Unisaw. The plug is to far away and the 25' gives me room to take the saw outside and enjoy the sunshine when I want to.

I checked the owners manual and in my minds eye.... what is the difference between a 25' run from the panel box to a plug and a 25' extension cord? In my case the 220v plus is adjacent to the box as I have a garage shop.

Good Luck....

Tks
Joe

[Tyler Howell]

[QUOTE=Betsy Yocum]ok
I'm guessing the answer would be yes - but no. Yes it can be made, but it shouldn't.



Hi Betsy
There's Gotta be the bad Guy!
As an EMT with out fail my PTs that were candidates for the Darwin Awards would always say " I knew I shouldn't have done it but....". Betsy that inner voice is talking to you.
In order of preference:

1) Move your outlet. (we can talk you through this.)

2) Extend your saw power cord. (Not bad if you take your time)

3) A short extension cord just long enough to meet your needs, and only when you have it pushed way out. (If you gotta you gotta but there are altenatives)

[Hal Flynt]

Betsy,

I followed what jim Becker said. My extension cord is 10 feet long and my shop is 14 feet wide with 220v outlet on each side fairly centerd on the wall which allows me to move thing around and stay connected.

[John Weber]

Betsy,

I used an extension cord to power the whole shop while I ran my new feed, with no problems. Currently I only use one extension cord for my shaper and power feeder. A couple reason are first the regular location of the shaper if off the power wall, second I often move the shaper around the shop, and third it was easy to make a double outlet for both the shaper and feeder connections. I used a 10 ga (I think), braided wire, 4 conductor cord, a 2-gang handy box, and a custom outlet cover I made from two singles. The shaper came with a standard 220 plug, so I just used the same style for the feeder. I think any of your options would be fine (extension cord, move the box, or longer power cord)

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/picss04/220outlet.jpg

Good Luck - John

[Ted Shrader]

Hi Betsy -
There's Gotta be the bad Guy! As an EMT with out fail my PTs that were candidates for the Darwin Awards would always say " I knew I shouldn't have done it but....". Betsy that inner voice is talking to you. In order of preference:
1) Move your outlet. (we can talk you through this.)

2) Extend your saw power cord. (Not bad if you take your time)

3) A short extension cord just long enough to meet your needs, and only when you have it pushed way out. (If you gotta you gotta but there are altenatives)
Betsy -

Gotta go with Tyler on this one. Option 3 is a DISTANT third. I would consider it only for temporary use. The other two options are the "right" ones. As Tyler said, we can talk you through it.

Regards,
Ted

[Betsy Yocum]

Thanks for all you replies folks. Tyler - you're right that little voice is telling me that I don't like the extension cord idea very much. However, with that said, since I'm real good about disconnecting my power equipment for the power source EVERY time I leave the shop - I'm not to worried about an extra long cord either overheating etc, plus the extension cords I do use - I always pick up and they are not laying around on the floor to get walked on and damaged. However, I still think you are right that I should either move the outlet or change the cord to the machine itself.

For now - I'm going with the extension cord until I can get someone more competent (hopefully very soon) to change the the cord on the machine. I'm afraid that if I open the switch panel myself that I'll not get it all back in there in the right manner. (I may get brave and try it - but not so sure I can do it!)

Now I'm in the market to get someone to come by and do the job!

Thanks again everyone!

[Jim Becker]

I must admit that I really like the way my MM16 is setup. It comes from the factory with a very short pigtail. The user supplies a male plug for that and an appropriate length power cord to get between the machine and the outlet on the wall. This makes for a clean and adaptable setup as well as easy disconnection of the machine for maintenance and blade changes...right at the saw. As I indicated above, my TS is now setup this way and since I use only twist locks for 240v (except for the DC), the connections are positive and heavy duty. Again, I think there is a valid advantage of a disconnect right at the machine, but also realize that there are several ways, already noted in this thread, to handle the situation. Do what is best for you in the safest manner possible.

[Betsy Yocum]

I must admit that I really like the way my MM16 is setup. It comes from the factory with a very short pigtail. The user supplies a male plug for that and an appropriate length power cord to get between the machine and the outlet on the wall. This makes for a clean and adaptable setup as well as easy disconnection of the machine for maintenance and blade changes...right at the saw. As I indicated above, my TS is now setup this way and since I use only twist locks for 240v (except for the DC), the connections are positive and heavy duty. Again, I think there is a valid advantage of a disconnect right at the machine, but also realize that there are several ways, already noted in this thread, to handle the situation. Do what is best for you in the safest manner possible.
Thanks Jim -

[Dennis McDonaugh]

A properly sized extension cord is not unsafe electrically and is a perfectly legitimate way to provide a power source for your equipment. It could however, prove to be a physical safety issue by causing a tripping hazard, but you can mitigate that by routing it safetly through your work area. Heck, the wires in the walls are nothing more than an extension cord, providing a path for current from the breaker to the wall outlet. Adding a few feet of extra wiring won't have any adverse effect as long as it is sized to the load.

[Richard Hash]

I was in the same situation with my Unisaw (needed about 3 extra feet) and just replaced the saws cord. It was about as simple as you can get, took maybe 10 minutes total. Quite frankly, the one that comes with the Unisaw is pretty cheesy, I went up at least one gauge with the new cord...

[Edited later: I guess technically that would be "down" one gauge :) - I used a more substantial cord than the original]

[Tyler Howell]

Not going to stand on this soap box too long cause the air is pretty thin, and I'm a easy target.
I too have dedicated 220 extension cords for rare special occasions . My concern is a permanent installation. The wire will support the current load. The weak link is those 12 (yes count them twelve) additional mechanical connections. Each connection including the plug is a bottle neck that can cause Hot Spots. (Take a look with a thermo camera sometime). Yes it will work, maybe flawlessly for the duration of its life.
I know it won't pass an OSHA 600 inspection. and I don't think many electrical inspectors will give it the thumbs up.
Betsy you have demonstrated your skill in wiring already and this is just one more hoop. You can do this.

[Dennis Peacock]

If we all stop and think this over for a second....all our cords are "extension cords". I have a 30' cord attached to my Robland X31 so I can leave it plugged up and still roll it around in the shop. Is it technically an extension cord by common terms? No, because it does not have a female plug on the opposite end. For a 220V extension, just run a good yellow rubber coated cord, 10-3 in size, put on each end of male/femal plugs and your safe and ready to go. Even the wire from the power company is still a form of an extension cord. We just have to be aware that the longer the cord that we want to use, the larger sized wire we must use in order to compensate for line volatage drops over certain distances. Power starved tools won't last very long, will overheat easily and eventually burn out the motors. When in doubt, go one size larger in wire size. :D

I may not be the smartest smack on the head, but I still have over 400 houses and 30 commerical businesses that I have wired that are still standing today without a single electrical problem. (off soapbox now.) :p :D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Betsy, I put a 15' long cord on my 1023 when I got it. It came with a cord, but no plug. I vote for replacing the cord.

Dennis, I used 12-2 for my 15'...is that not enough?

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Betsy, I put a 15' long cord on my 1023 when I got it. It came with a cord, but no plug. I vote for replacing the cord.

Dennis, I used 12-2 for my 15'...is that not enough?

That's fine Kelly. It'll outlast your saw!

[Dennis Peacock]

Betsy, I put a 15' long cord on my 1023 when I got it. It came with a cord, but no plug. I vote for replacing the cord.

Dennis, I used 12-2 for my 15'...is that not enough?

Yes sir....that's a plenty. You can safely go 25' before you need to step up to the next size cord. I just don't want folks even slightly power starving their tools and wishing they hadn't. In the long run, it's a LOT cheaper to supply a larger cord and have your tool last a long time than to replace a motor. DAMHIKT!!!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Good, I was worried a bit. I wasn't sure I had gotten a big enough guage after reading your post. I know about burning tools up....burned up a corded string trimmer once a long time ago...used a 14 ga. 150' cord and went around the property...suddenly it got slower and slower and smoked like a hickory BBQ....only it didn't smell too good!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Brian Austin]

The weak link is those 12 (yes count them twelve) additional mechanical connections. Each connection including the plug is a bottle neck that can cause Hot Spots. (Take a look with a thermo camera sometime). Yes it will work, maybe flawlessly for the duration of its life.
I know it won't pass an OSHA 600 inspection. and I don't think many electrical inspectors will give it the thumbs up.
Betsy you have demonstrated your skill in wiring already and this is just one more hoop. You can do this.

I've done thermal cam work on panels in a foundry. Interesting stuff. I suspect, though, that a 12/3 or 10/3 connection won't be that significant. Despite the amperage numbers listed for motors, I think you missed that those are FULL LOAD draws, not just spinning the blade or even ripping 3" hard maple.

The plugs that are designed for 20A or 30A connections are designed to pass that current through the connection with as little resistance (ie heat) as possible.

If you can hold the connection with your hands immediately following ripping a four foot, 3" piece of hard maple, you're fine. Are you getting the best efficiency? Of course not. For that, you'd need it hardwired straight to the panel. But for the bulk of the home and even light commercial shops out there, it will be fine.

OSHA standards (btdt) are often designed around exceptions instead of typical use. In other words, let's figure that everyone out there is too stupid to think for themselves and design rules that exceed the normal practices that will work 99% of the time. There isn't a commercial shop in the country that could pass an exact, rigid, no overlooking 'cause it is bureaucratic crap, OSHA inspection because (1) you'll never figure out all the rules and (2) you'd go bankrupt trying to comply.

Inspect your cords often, replace at the first sign of any fraying or insulation wear and plug away!

[Tyler Howell]

QUOTE=Brian Austin]

Inspect your cords often, replace at the first sign of any fraying or insulation wear and plug away![/QUOTE]

This is the part that doesn't happen:o Behind almost every Reg, is a lawsuit, death or injury. They don't write these things to be mean to the small shop and hobby WW. In this thread there are statements of use because the outlet is not visible, behind something, out of reach..... Out of sight, out of mind. I've read post after post on how to beat the system.
A short power cable on an appliance is built-in by the manufacture to keep the run to the outlet short. The No Plug/ No cable on Large industrial machines are not for your choice of designer plugs but intended to hardwire the machine into a disconnect or reasonable facsimile. Moving monster machines into the middle of the shop to work is an after thought.
I don't make them up, write them, or even understand some of them. In fact I'm writing a report to get some safety Regs changed because they don't apply with advances in technology.
Come Tuesday I'll go looking for more infractions.
Play safe.;)

[Mike Cutler]

I find it very interesting that a lot of members work in fields that are technical and physical. I wonder if there is a link here.
I won't really advise you which way to go Betsy, but there are a lot of valid points brought up. I agree with Tyler in principal that rewirng the machine, or moving the receptacle is the most correct, long term solution. A lot of times our "temporary" fixes become "permanary" over time. The extension cord is safe as long as the wire is sized to handle the current 10/3 should be more than adequate. Use twist lock plugs on all ends. to prevent the cord from coming unplugged while the machine in use.
My .02 added to the thread fwiw.

[Betsy Yocum]

There sure is a wide range of opinions on this matter - passionate ones at that!!! :)

I always think safety is the first and foremost thought that should go into anything you do - in the shop or not. But what constitutes "safe" appears to be as hard to define as deciding did the chicken come before the egg.

I recently had a gas leak at the house and, of course, had it repaired - had it inspected by two different inspectors (the city goofed and scheduled 2 different guys and they both showed - unusual for sure). Long and short both inspectors had different opinions about the way the plumbers fixed the leak. One said it was safe the other said it wasn't.:( One signed a card saying it was ok to turn the gas on - the other called his supervisor crying foul. Meantime the plumber and I just wanted to go back to work. The supervisor came and eventually signed off on the repair, although he said he would have done it differently. Go figure.

Long and short - I think you have to do what you are comfortable with. Now I've got to decide what I'm comfortable with.

Thanks for all the comments - I'll let you know what I decide. :)

Betsy

[Dennis McDonaugh]

QUOTE=Brian Austin]

Inspect your cords often, replace at the first sign of any fraying or insulation wear and plug away!

This is the part that doesn't happen:o Behind almost every Reg, is a lawsuit, death or injury. They don't write these things to be mean to the small shop and hobby WW. In this thread there are statements of use because the outlet is not visible, behind something, out of reach..... Out of sight, out of mind. I've read post after post on how to beat the system.
A short power cable on an appliance is built-in by the manufacture to keep the run to the outlet short. The No Plug/ No cable on Large industrial machines are not for your choice of designer plugs but intended to hardwire the machine into a disconnect or reasonable facsimile. Moving monster machines into the middle of the shop to work is an after thought.
I don't make them up, write them, or even understand some of them. In fact I'm writing a report to get some safety Regs changed because they don't apply with advances in technology.
Come Tuesday I'll go looking for more infractions.
Play safe.;) [/QUOTE]



Tyler, I think the short cord on appliances are more from a physical safety point, than an electrical safety point. They don't want the consumer to "hook" the cord and pull the appliance off the counter.

[Steve Cox]

You might want to consider cost into all of this. Several people have stated that twist locks would be appropriate in this situation and I would agree. To build up an extension cord plus putting the connectors in the wall and on the machine entails 4 of them. Thats about $80 just for the connectors from HD for the "less than the best" solution. How much was that electrician?

[Betsy Yocum]

You might want to consider cost into all of this. Several people have stated that twist locks would be appropriate in this situation and I would agree. To build up an extension cord plus putting the connectors in the wall and on the machine entails 4 of them. Thats about $80 just for the connectors from HD for the "less than the best" solution. How much was that electrician?
Ok - going to admit ignorance once again :o - I'm assuming a twist lock is a mechanism to keep the plug - plugged - so it does not come undo on its own. Is that right? I wouldn't know what one looked it if I saw it.

BTW - the electrician cost about $300 to inspect my wiring job, attach the new wires into the main box and to install the 220 outlet. I thought that was a lot - but then I didn't have my hands inside the main box either, which was one thing I wanted to avoid. :)

Betsy

[Dave Moran]

Hi Betsy, You are correct a twist lock is a plug and outlet combination that you plug in and turn about 1/8 of a turn to lock them together. A bit expensive but they are very heavy duty and will last nearly forever. An added benefit is that if you use them on everything and hide your adaper, people will stop asking to borrow your tools as they can't plug them in :D


Dave

[Tyler Howell]

Hi Again Betsy,

You Got the Twist lock correct.
$300 is a good price for the work you discribed. The going rate per outlet is 85-150 in this area. Some jobbers work by the hour.
Knowledge is power

[Scott Banbury]

Betsy,

I just moved into a building that has tons of 3 phase but only 60 amps of single.

Thus I did not have capacity to run separate 220 single phase outlets to my three 220 single phase machines.

Of course, my longterm solution will be to upgrade the single phase panel to 125 amps and have a seperate, hardwired circuit for each machine.

But my short term (and cheap) solution was to temporarily (gotta make some money for the electrician) run all the machines off the same circuit by installing a 25' flexible 10/3 snake with an appliance outlet and corresponding plugs on each machine. I've checked the added resistance and it's negligible. Of course, I end up bending over alot to plug and unplug but gotta do what I gotta do.

The outlet on the end of the snake is simply a junction box with and appropriate face plate.

My electrician says it's fine as a temporary fix and that I could still maitain it is an "option" for outside working (like welding) after I get all the machines hardwired.

BTW, I used the same system in my home shop for 6 years before I bought my shop with no problem.

[Betsy Yocum]

Thanks Scott - those temporary fixes are a necessity sometimes. Thanks for the input.

Betsy

[Bob Aquino]

Betsy
The biggest concern I would have using an extension cord is if it becomes a trip hazard lying on the floor. In my shop in the garage, I have my 220 coming down from the ceiling on the far side of the saw. I use an extension cord that I made up to power the saw (3hp unisaw) and it has been running fine for over 3 years. In my case, the cord attaches to a pvc box in the ceiling using a twist lock plug and never runs across any part of the floor where someone might trip over it. I use a single 220v terminal that the saw plugs into. The wire is a very heavy gauge cord I was given a while back, I think it is either a 10 or 12 gauge wire. The saw draws about 12amps at 220 volts so this is adequate.

You could rewire the saw youself, buy a long enough cord at the appropriate size (probably 12-3 should work as long as you don't extend the length too much) and replace the wires going into the magnetic controller just as the old cord is wired. Remember, you have two hots and one neutral and a ground. The more knowledgeable guys in the electrical dept. at the big boxes can help you there or you can ask you electrician for advice for choosing a new cord.

Finally you can have the outlet rewired, but most likey they will splice off the old outlet instead of running a complete new line. Probably overkill but if it lets you sleep better its probably worth it.