SawStop Question

[Mike Henderson]

Sometimes people remove the blade guard on a table saw (for whatever reasons). On a SawStop if you touch the blade, the brake will fire. But what about when the blade is spinning down after you've turned the saw off? Will the brake fire under that condition if you touch the blade?

In other words, is the protection of the brake only available while power is applied to the motor, or is it available any time the blade is spinning (even after you've turned off the motor)?

Mike

[Kyle Iwamoto]

The SS brake will fire until the blade stops. You will be protected after you turn the motor off.

[Dan Friedrichs]

+1. It will fire any time the blade is spinning.

[Mike Henderson]

Okay, thanks. I'm thinking of buying a SS and was considering the various situations where you might get hurt. Seems like they really thought the design through.

Mike

[Jim Dailey]

Hi Mike,

The SawStop will trigger the cartridge upon contact on run down provide you do not switch off the Master Power Switch along with the Kill Switch. The Master Power Switch sends power to the computer board which triggers the cartridge.

I have the Industrial 5hp model with an Incra Fence & Xactor slide table. Besides the larger table was very surprised about the step up in quality of the Unisaw I had for more than 20 years.

One surprise was the distance of the miter slot to the blade was different (wider I believe) than my Uni thus my Delta mortise had to be rebuilt to work, and every jig requiring the use of the miter slot.

jim

[Roger Jensen]

What about the riving knife? If you touch the riving knife while the blade is spinning (either when the saw is on or spinning down) will the brake fire?

I have a SS but don't want to try it!

Thanks,

Roger

[Mike Henderson]

What about the riving knife? If you touch the riving knife while the blade is spinning (either when the saw is on or spinning down) will the brake fire?

I have a SS but don't want to try it!

Thanks,

Roger
I've heard stories of the brake triggering when the riving knife was misadjusted and came in contact with the blade. That would indicate to me that only contact with the blade causes the brake to fire.

Plus, I think the riving knife is attached to the trunnion, which is attached to the frame, so it's grounded pretty good. Electrically, you couldn't sense much touching something that was well grounded.

Mike

[Paul Ryan]

Mike,

When the blade is spinning down. The lights on the switch box blink, the saw knows when the blade comes to a stop. The PCS saw has some new software to prevent accidently firings that happend in some ICS saws. Apparently if the blade was touched right after it stopped on some of the ICS saws the brake could fire. I understand the PCS saw knows how fast the blade is spinning or something to that effect.

[mreza Salav]

You've got your answer so far.

I have the ICS version. It's a great unit and you probably have heard all the good things about it. There were a few minor things that made it less than perfect to me:

- I was expecting a perfectly flat top and wings, but there was close to 0.02" gap across the wings/tables (all three). It appears this is within the tolerance allowance of Sawstop.

- The fence itself is very very solid and it is straight across its length (I measured it within 0.002" wrt miter slot) but the piece of laminated BB that attaches to the fence surface isn't that flat. It deeps in the middle and I had to shim it from behind. It screws from behind to the fence. I read someone else had similar problem. A few layers of masking tape from behind made it to about 0.005" flat across the length which is Ok to me.

- The extension table (which is a piece of laminated MDF) goes out of flat eventually (cups a bit). Although you can build one and replace it or using the bolts that attach it to the rails straighten it to some degree. I found it doesn't affect the quality of cut nor working conditions.

Aside from these minor things, I liked every aspect of the saw.
Adjusting the table to the top is very well thought (done using some set screws to the sides and a pivoting point to the front).

Having a larger table top is great too.

hope that helps.

[curtis rosche]

what happens if you spin the blade by hand? does it sense that and arm the system?

[Mike Henderson]

what happens if you spin the blade by hand? does it sense that and arm the system?
I'm fairly certain the answer to that is "No".

Mike

[Barry Vabeach]

Curtis, you can spin the blade by hand without a problem. So long as the saw is not on, the detection is still active but it won't trigger anything other than a red light. If you have a question about whether a material you are about to cut will is too conductive, you just touch it to the blade ( with the saw off) and if the red light blinks that means the cartridge would have fired if the blade was spinnging, so you have to use the bypass mode. If the red light doesn't come on, the material is fine.

[Josh Reet]

Curtis, you can spin the blade by hand without a problem. So long as the saw is not on, the detection is still active but it won't trigger anything other than a red light. If you have a question about whether a material you are about to cut will is too conductive, you just touch it to the blade ( with the saw off) and if the red light blinks that means the cartridge would have fired if the blade was spinnging, so you have to use the bypass mode. If the red light doesn't come on, the material is fine.

Hey, that's really clever. I didn't know it had that feature.

[Tom Henderson2]

By all accounts the Sawstop is a wonderful tool, and I hope to own one someday.

My only worry, though, is what happens if (when?) the electronics crump out in 10, 20 or however many years... will they be supported, or will that be an issue? Hard to tell.

Also, while Sawstop is a good company, even good companies go out of business or are sold/merge with others, and sometimes customers get left in the lurch. Will there be somebody to sell me a SS cartridge 30 years from now?

My current saw is my Dad's 1965 Craftsman... I'm sure many of you hope to pass your SS on to your kids... I just wonder if they will be supported. This issue applies to some extent to all machines, but seems to be more of an issue with electronics than cast iron and steel.

-TH

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tom,

I don't own a SS nor do I intend on buying one....

But your concern could be applied to any saw or manufacturer.

There are no guarrantees in life or in business.

There are times when you just take a chance.

While $3-5K may seem like a lot for a tool or toy.....it's not the price of a new car or house.....

[Barry Vabeach]

Tom, I wasn't really worried that they would go out of business, but did buy 2 cartridges just in case. OTOH, even if they go under 25 or 50 years from now, you could always bypass the electronic blade break by running power through a switch to the motor - you would still have a great saw, with a true riving knife. and you would have the same safety as someone who bought the current PM, Uni, or comparable.

[Mike Henderson]

By all accounts the Sawstop is a wonderful tool, and I hope to own one someday.

My only worry, though, is what happens if (when?) the electronics crump out in 10, 20 or however many years... will they be supported, or will that be an issue? Hard to tell.

Also, while Sawstop is a good company, even good companies go out of business or are sold/merge with others, and sometimes customers get left in the lurch. Will there be somebody to sell me a SS cartridge 30 years from now?

My current saw is my Dad's 1965 Craftsman... I'm sure many of you hope to pass your SS on to your kids... I just wonder if they will be supported. This issue applies to some extent to all machines, but seems to be more of an issue with electronics than cast iron and steel.

-TH
If SawStop sells enough saws and then winds up going out of business, someone else would probably offer the brakes and electronics for sale, just like people offer parts for old {cars, tools, you name it}. It's all a question of the market size (installed base of saws).

The situation to worry about is if SawStop doesn't sell enough saws. In that case, SS is likely to go out of business and the installed base may be too small for anyone to make a business selling spare parts.

However, it appears that SS is being quite successful. I heard something recently that the SS is the largest selling cabinet saw in the US now. If they can continue that position for maybe five years, the installed base will be large enough that parts will always be available, no matter what happens to the SS company itself.

Mike

[Richard Andersen]

Does anyone know if other saw makers are maybe planning or working on their version of a blade brake system? Just seems like the Saw Stop system is gaining momentum and popularity in the market, I just don't see how major saw makers can ignore coming up with a competitive option, unless patent laws, etc has their hands tied.

When looking at purchasing a tablesaw a few months back Tool King said they are currently selling 3 SawStop's for every other brand tablesaw they carry. Finances would not allow a black tablesaw in my garage, so I took advantage of the Powermatic/Jet Thanksgiving sale and have a gold saw in the garage.

[Rod Sheridan]

By all accounts the Sawstop is a wonderful tool, and I hope to own one someday.

My only worry, though, is what happens if (when?) the electronics crump out in 10, 20 or however many years... will they be supported, or will that be an issue? Hard to tell.

Also, while Sawstop is a good company, even good companies go out of business or are sold/merge with others, and sometimes customers get left in the lurch. Will there be somebody to sell me a SS cartridge 30 years from now?

My current saw is my Dad's 1965 Craftsman... I'm sure many of you hope to pass your SS on to your kids... I just wonder if they will be supported. This issue applies to some extent to all machines, but seems to be more of an issue with electronics than cast iron and steel.

-TH

Hi Tom, I guess I'm in an even worse position, owning General and Hammer machinery.

I wouldn't worry about 30 years down the road, that would make me one of the worlds oldest wood workers:D.

Seriously, companies do fail, however as the number of SS machines sold climbs, the probability that an after market source for parts will become available, will rise also.

The other issue mentioned, that of passing the machine down to your heirs, the machine will probably be so functionally obsolete that they won't want the old dinosaur except as a display item.

Just look at the inroads the combination machines are making at present, the increased functionality and capabilities are making our traditional style table saw look awfully old by design. Extrapolate that 30 years and see if you can predict the future of the table saw.

If you want a Saw Stop, buy it, it seems to be a competent cabinet saw, with one outstanding safety advantage.

So if the unlikely happens, and you can't obtain electronics for it in 30 years, you can use it as a non SS saw.

My guess however is that in 30 years, there won't be many people who wouldn't choose a more modern saw design.

Regards, Rod.

[Cliff Holmes]

Does anyone know if other saw makers are maybe planning or working on their version of a blade brake system?

From what I understand, the SS brake is patented. Licensing was offered to other manufacturers who declined, supposedly because the royalty fees were too high.

I think US patents last either 14 or 20 years, so if you're not in any particular hurry ... :)

[Mike Henderson]

From what I understand, the SS brake is patented. Licensing was offered to other manufacturers who declined, supposedly because the royalty fees were too high.

I think US patents last either 14 or 20 years, so if you're not in any particular hurry ... :)
If I recall correctly, in the US a patent is valid for 20 years after filing. Of course, you can't enforce the patent until it issues and it's not at all unusual for a patent to take three years to issue. So for most situations, you'd get about 17 years of patent protection.

Just a historical note, the patent law was changed some years ago because of the problem of "submarine" patents. The term of a patent used to be from the issue date. So if someone had a patent on something that was going to take a long time to really take off (lasers could be an example), they'd delay and delay the process in the patent office. It might take ten years for the patent office to process the patent, then the patent would be valid for maybe 20 years. The inventor didn't care about not having the patent for the first ten years because the sales were low. Hopefully, by then, the invention would have really taken off and there'd be lots of it shipping. Then the patent would issue and the inventor would go to all the companies and demand a royalty.

So now, you get a term from the time you file and not from when the patent issues.

Anyway, that's what I understand. I'm not an attorney but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.:)

Mike

[Cliff Holmes]

From what I remember, there are actually two kinds of patents. One is only valid for 14 years, maybe some kind of concept-only patent? It's been a *long* time since Introductory Business Law.

[Mike Henderson]

From what I remember, there are actually two kinds of patents. One is only valid for 14 years, maybe some kind of concept-only patent? It's been a *long* time since Introductory Business Law.
Design patents (the "look" of something) have a period of 14 years - if I remember correctly.

Mike