cyclones

[Mike Stanton]

How far into the cyclone do you put the netural vane? Thanks for any help. Mike

[Steve Cox]

Install a "neutral vane" into your cyclone. As near as I can tell the term "neutral vane" took a common HVAC air director term and misused it to make up for the basic design flaw in many early home built cyclones. These cyclones stop the inlet right at the surface of the outer cylinder. The result is the air whips around once then crashes right into the incoming air creating all kinds of turbulence and poor separation. Extending that inlet by adding an extension that goes to the center edge of the cyclone generates about 1/3 better performance. You can easily make this extension by using a piece of HVAC snap lock pipe from a home center. To find the "exact" optimum performance place, use an amp meter on your motor and move the pipe in and out. The ideal place is ending the pipe close to the center of the edge of the cyclone (a perpendicular line at the end of your inlet pipe would go right through the center of the cyclone looking from above). When the pipe is in the right position, the amperage will be at a maximum. Just either screw or pop-rivet that pipe and you have the biggest improvement that you can easily make to your existing cyclone.


<CENTER>http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/NeutralVane.gif </CENTER>
<LI>The above is from the "cyclone mods" section of Bill Pentz's website.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/CycloneMods.cfm

[Ken Garlock]

Mike, I built the cyclone kit that Clarke Echoles is marketing. The neutral vane in the kit is a complete sheet metal disk, cut along one radius, with a hole in the middle. The disk forms a spiral starting at the top of the inlet shoot and ending at the lower edge of the inlet shoot. The entering dust is forced to make on complete circle around the cyclone at the start. The inter hole is sized to just fit around the outlet shoot. The outer edge has multiple tabs that are bent down at 90 deg. and used to pop rivet the vane in place.

I hope this helps, and doesn't confuse :)

[Mike Weaver]

Mike, I built the cyclone kit that Clarke Echoles is marketing. The neutral vane in the kit is a complete sheet metal disk, cut along one radius, with a hole in the middle. The disk forms a spiral starting at the top of the inlet shoot and ending at the lower edge of the inlet shoot. The entering dust is forced to make on complete circle around the cyclone at the start. The inter hole is sized to just fit around the outlet shoot. The outer edge has multiple tabs that are bent down at 90 deg. and used to pop rivet the vane in place.

I hope this helps, and doesn't confuse :)

Ken,
Isn't that actually the "air ramp" rather than the neutral vane?

-Mike

[Ken Garlock]

Ken,
Isn't that actually the "air ramp" rather than the neutral vane?

-Mike

Mike, we may be caught up in terminalogy. It was my understanding that a neutral vane is in place to prevent the air that is completing its first circle of the cyclone from interfering with the air just entering the cyclone. The air ramp or whatever does that by completely separating the incoming air from the circling air for the first complete revolution. That seems to me like a better solution than just a 6" or so extension to the inlet shoot. So straighten me out, I am willing to learn :)

[Mike Weaver]

Mike, we may be caught up in terminalogy. It was my understanding that a neutral vane is in place to prevent the air that is completing its first circle of the cyclone from interfering with the air just entering the cyclone. The air ramp or whatever does that by completely separating the incoming air from the circling air for the first complete revolution. That seems to me like a better solution than just a 6" or so extension to the inlet shoot. So straighten me out, I am willing to learn :)

Ken,
I think you may be right. There is a lot of confusion regarding these terms.

As I understand them the neutral vane is the extension to the inlet to allow the air to start around the cyclone in the correct direction.

I think the air ramp further helps efficiency by directing the incoming air down and around the cyclone, rather than just letting it sort itself out.

As an aside, have you been pleased with the performance?

I'm awaiting delivery of a Bill Pentz produced cyclone as we speak. :D
...although I went with the HF motor, rather than the Leeson.

Hope that helps, and not hinders everyone's understanding! :o

-Mike

[Ken Garlock]

Ken,
As an aside, have you been pleased with the performance?

I'm awaiting delivery of a Bill Pentz produced cyclone as we speak. :D
...although I went with the HF motor, rather than the Leeson.

Hope that helps, and not hinders everyone's understanding! :o

-Mike

Yes, Mike. I think we are on the same page, may be just a difference verse :) I am still installing my cyclone and in the building of the filter box on the output side. There are a couple pictures in my last weeks post called Shop Additions. The only thing I can say for sure is that it is LOUD, like 102 db according to my el-cheapo ratshack audio meter. However, that was without any ducting attached, just running it "naked". In time, it will be able to suck the chrome off a trailer hitch, I hope. :D

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9933

Mike,

It might not seem relevent at first but muttle your way through the thread and you should see quite a bit that helps you. I posted a lot of pics of the BP/CE cyclone that I built.

[Steve Cox]

Guys I think both of you are using the correct terminology. If I understand this correctly (and I might not) the air ramp and the neutral vane are both ways to accomplish the same thing. The air ramp is the better solution but difficult to retrofit to an existing cyclone. The neutral vane is better than nothing and is a good retrofit to a Wood Magazine cyclone.

[Chris Padilla]

Mike,

Actually, the air-ramp should be fairly easy to retrofit. It is basically a doughnut, split on one side so it can form a spiral when stretched. Okay, maybe it isn't so easy.... ;)

[Mike Weaver]

Mike,

Actually, the air-ramp should be fairly easy to retrofit. It is basically a doughnut, split on one side so it can form a spiral when stretched. Okay, maybe it isn't so easy.... ;)

Chris,
It won't be a retrofit for me... Remember, I'm the guy getting a BP MADE cyclone. :D

Cheers,
-Mike

[nic obie]

The only thing I can say for sure is that it is LOUD, like 102 db according to my el-cheapo ratshack audio meter. However, that was without any ducting attached:D

Ken

I have the same cyclone only am running two blower units on it. It also was super loud until I encased the 6" ducting that runs from the blower to the filters with 7" flex insulated heater ducting that I picked up at the Depot.

Now even though I'm running two blowers the dB at 6' is 82, (using the same cheapo RS meter).

[CPeter James]

I have the 1 1/2 hp Oneida cyclone and it works good, or actually great, but if it could be improved I might do it. Has anyone tried the "ramp" in one of these. I read several years ago the the Neutral vane did not help.

CPeter

[Ken Garlock]

Ken

I have the same cyclone only am running two blower units on it. It also was super loud until I encased the 6" ducting that runs from the blower to the filters with 7" flex insulated heater ducting that I picked up at the Depot.

Now even though I'm running two blowers the dB at 6' is 82, (using the same cheapo RS meter).

Kool, Nic :cool: I have heard that the HVAC insulation does a good job. I am certainly going to try it. Heck, at 82 dog bones, it is almost not a consideration :)