Those Rascally Rabbets…

[Jim Koepke]

This is another installment for the thread on specialty planes.

This section will discuss Rabbet Planes and some that though they may not be thought of as Rabbet Planes have similar traits and abilities.

Since my accumulation does not have all of the different Rabbet Planes made by the many makers, others are hereby encouraged to include images of their Rabbet Planes. Please also include comments about how they are used and the "Good, Bad and the Ugly" about their usage and how they are helpful in the shop.

The Stanley #45 and other Multi-Purpose planes will not be included in this section since they are discussed earlier in this thread.

While typing this, it was realized I have a few wooden Rabbet Planes that were sitting on a shelf, silently when the Rabbet Plane group photo was taken.

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The main feature of a Rabbet Plane is its ability to cut to the edge of the plane body. Usually, the side of the plane is open to expose the blade. The most common planes thought of as Rabbet Planes are open on both sides with a blade slightly wider than the plane body.

One of my steps when using a plane like this is to lay the side of the plane to be registered to the vertical side of a rabbet on a piece of hardwood. With the lever cap slightly loosened, the body and blade are pressed against the wood to align the edge of the plane body with the blade. This will help create a cleaner edge of the rabbet. With a shoulder plane, doing this each time before cleaning a shoulder can prevent damage, which may cause weakness, to a tenon.

The blade may also need to have the edge honed with a very slight bevel to help avoid dragging against the side of a rabbet.

One plane that is not usually thought of as a Rabbet Plane is included in this section. That is the (Stanley #95) Edge Plane. The main use of this plane is to make one edge square to another. It does have the ability to be used like a Rabbet Plane. That earns it inclusion in this section.

The first planes to be covered will be the Side Rabbets.

jim

To be continued…

[harry strasil]

Funny you should make this post at this time Jim, I am currently making a built up rebate plane out of some reclaimed very close grain oak salvaged pallet wood. I have been unsuccessful in obtaining any old rebate planes smaller than 1 inch, so am attempting to make a 1/2 inch one as a prototype.

[harry strasil]

I am assumming that a Router Plane can be classified as a Rebate plane too, as it used to clean the bottom of rebates.

[Jim Koepke]

I am assumming that a Router Plane can be classified as a Rebate plane too, as it used to clean the bottom of rebates.

Hadn't thought of that, but it does make sense.

My thoughts lean towards a plane that can also be registered to the work on its side, but then that would exclude some that I have included.

So, include any plane that can reasonably make a rabbet and that would include a router.

Another funny thing about this is my #140. It is pretty much unused by me, so yesterday the blade was honed with a proper angle. It came to me a little off which makes the plane difficult to use. Now that it has a sharp blade, it seems to work a lot better across the grain than with the grain. The sole has not been checked for flat. If the sole is out of flat, that would explain its problems.

As far as wooden rabbets, is it possible to modify a narrow hollow or round?

That probably wouldn't work if you wanted a skewed blade.

jim

[harry strasil]

I use a Miller Falls 07, which is their copy of the Stanley 140 because it is in my basement tool kit, I have a 140 that is in my Demo tool kit, and I use it with my banding thickness planer, it was missing the side plate when I got it (cheap), but I made a plate for it. I also have a woodie comparable 140 I made too. I use them mostly on end grain, but they make a good all purpose block plane.

[harry strasil]

Oh, yeah a mini gloat, it rained most of the time at one of the 2 big flea mkts near here and it was the last day and the 07 got a little wet and was showing some light surface rust and business was bad that weekend for the fleas so I ended up with the Miller 07 for the outrageous sum of $8. It got disassembled immediately when I got home and was wiped down with MMO, and presto not rust.

[harry strasil]

FWIW, I carry a plastic coffee can with several shop towels soaked lightly with MMO when I got to Flea Mkts now and a pair of blue nitrile gloves and some large ziplock bags. If i purchase a tool with any rust, I disassemble on some newspapers when I get back to my vehicle, don the gloves, work the parts over with the MMO soaked towels, then wrap the worst ones in the towel and place the whole works in a ziplock bag wrapped in paper, the MMO works on the rust very well, and it doesn't take much to finish cleaning them up later when I get home.

MMO=Marvel Mystery Oil

[James Taglienti]

Here are my users, well, all but the green one, i never could get it to work. The rest work well and cut square except for the square infilled one; the iron is about 1/64 too narrow for the body and it makes stepped rabbets if i don't use a knife to score the corners. I will probably take a file to the plane body one of these days... i don't want to replace the iron it's a neat snecked one.
Special thanks to Jim for the body of the 98 pictured here. Thanks Jim!

[Jim Koepke]

Here are my users, well, all but the green one, i never could get it to work. The rest work well and cut square except for the square infilled one; the iron is about 1/64 too narrow for the body and it makes stepped rabbets if i don't use a knife to score the corners. I will probably take a file to the plane body one of these days... i don't want to replace the iron it's a neat snecked one.
Special thanks to Jim for the body of the 98 pictured here. Thanks Jim!

You are welcome.

On the one plane, I would avoid changing the body.

Will the blade move side to side enough to accommodate cutting on one side or the other?

Can the side of the blade be modified where it goes through the plane body to do this?

Me thinks the blade you have may have been a later replacement.

jim

[James Taglienti]

i think it's a replacement too- the plane is a mathieson and the iron is from someone else the name escapes me. But the real problem is that the dovetailed body of the plane has a very slight twist to it, and the sole just behind the iron is swollen from a drop or something a long time ago. The twist is less than a 1/64 across the piece but the "frog" for lack of a better term is wider than the rest of the plane. i don't think it was modified or dismantled recently because of the condition i got it in... but it still needs work. I was also considering putting it on an anvil and trying to true it that way. i know it sounds extreme but it is a user and i want it to work right. yes the iron has enough play to move side to side.

[harry strasil]

I believe I would try a vise first before anvilizing it.

[Jim Koepke]

I had to look at the picture a few times before I realized that was a Veritas rabbet and not a piece of duct tape.:D

jim

[Jim Koepke]

The side rabbet plane is not only a handy plane to have, it has versatility that is often overlooked.

It is most commonly used to take a shaving from the side of a rabbet, groove or dado to create more clearance for a panel or shelf to fit.

It can also serve as a shoulder plane or to make a rabbet by itself.

There are quite a few variations on this plane. Occasionally they are even seen offered in wooden bodied versions.

Say Harry, by any chance you have some of these you can post a picture of for us?

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My current pair is the Stanley #98 & #99 made from about 1911-1919. Lie-Nielsen makes a pair that is based on this design. Stanley also made a #79 model which is two - two - yes two planes in one. It is also a less expensive model. Don't let the lower cost fool you, it is a very good little plane. It is just redundant if you have the #98 - 99 pair.

The blades have a tendency to reach beyond the reach of the skate. This can score wood where one does not want it scored. This can be corrected sometimes by repositioning the blade or by honing off the part that is reaching out too far. Turn this into a bevel running with the skate an not just a flat for better results.

An almost a copy of the #79 is currently being made by Kunz. If it is as good a quality as their other offerings, then you would be most fortunate if you can get one of these to work for you. (If you think that is an endorsement, please read it again carefully as many times as needed to understand that it is not. I have not tried one of these, if they send me one to try and it is better than I expect, I will say so.)

Lee Valley is currently offering a two in one that follows some of the design features used by Preston of England which was bought by Rabone which was bought by Record and so on. Sargent also made a version with the crossed blade design. Finally, I believe I have seen one with this design that has adjusters for the blades, but I can not find it at present.

All of the different models I have seen seem to have settled on a depth of 1/2 inch.

The one thing I do not like about the crossed blade design is the depth stop can only be used on one side at a time. If you need to switch sides, you need to reset the depth stop. Some people do not use or like the depth stops. The dislike of depth stops is likely why there are so many side rabbet planes out there with the depth stops missing. I find the depth stops very helpful. If you have them and don't want them, I bet they would get quite a few bids on eBay.

Here is a side rabbet being used like a shoulder plane in a place where a shoulder plane normally would not work.

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Speaking of shoulder planes, the side rabbets are very adept at trimming the sides of dados. Why not on the end grain of a tenon shoulder?

The also can work the edges. Have a tight fitting top to a box or case?

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One of the projects I have on my list is to make some shoes for the depth stops to enable the forming of the inside of a running dovetail socket. That may be awhile, SWMBO is wanting a lot of things from the shop. Why do we need book shelves and cabinets? We have all these boxes...

jim

[harry strasil]

I only have the 79 Jim, I got it at an antique place at the Amana Colonies, I didn't get a fence and at that time had no idea what it looked like, so I made 2 fences out of stainless steel and wire brushed them to look like nickel plating, I also made the 2 mounting screws.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/79002.jpg

The dovetail fence mounted on the 79.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/79wfence.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

Those are nice fences. Do you have access to some machinery to bend the metal for the fences?

jim

[harry strasil]

I still have my Blacksmith shop intact except for selling a portable welder and 3 anvils. so yes I do. The depth fence was made from 1/8" SS angle and the dovetial fence from 1/8" SS sheet.

[harry strasil]

Oh yes, aren't the metal rebate planes what some are calling shoulder planes?

[Jim Koepke]

Yep, a shoulder plane is a kind of rebate plane. After all isn't a shoulder just a part of a rabbet in a special kind of place?

jim

[Pedro Reyes]

Yep, a shoulder plane is a kind of rebate plane. After all isn't a shoulder just a part of a rabbet in a special kind of place?

jim

I thought the same thing at first. The answer I gave myself was that shoulder planes are intended for endgrain, and as such have much lower bed angles and their blades are set bevel up. Where rebate planes have more of a traidtional bed angle (~45) and their bevels are down.

It has also been mentioned how making a bevel up woodie (with a low angle bed) has it's challenges --- before anyone jumps in with pictures, I am saying it has challenges, not impossible. And so metal planes allowed the lower bed angles and thus teh distinction between shoulder/rebate <--- this is a hypothesis of mine.

/p

[Jim Belair]

Interesting information, and I suppose it's an OK place to pose the question I have...

How does the usefulness of a skew rabbet plane (like a 289 or it's LV incarnation) compare to a skew rabbet block (140 or soon to be released by LV version)?

I'm guessing that the block with lower bed angle would be preferred for end grain and with shorter sole maybe better for trimming type jobs. The skew rabbet with longer sole and 45 deg bed better for long stock rabbet cutting.

Does this sound right? If you had to have one or the other which would prove useful?

Thanks
Jim B

[Jim Koepke]

Your conclusions sound right. Not having a #289, I can not speak for its usefulness.

My limited use of a #140 suggests its place of excellence is in cross grain work. Though it would likely also excel on end grain, the body casting weakness has me a little leery of using it for such a brutal service.

My preference for end grain work is to use a plane that is a bit more stout and for which it is easier to find a replacement blade.

jim

[Jim Belair]

Thanks Jim.

I guess body strength is where the Veritas folks have designed a significant improvement to the 140- no removable side. Due end of January or so I think. Maybe Derek C. has tested and has a review in the works.

Jim B

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks Jim.

I guess body strength is where the Veritas folks have designed a significant improvement to the 140- no removable side. Due end of January or so I think. Maybe Derek C. has tested and has a review in the works.

Jim B

If their blade is usable in the Stanley, they will sell at least one to me.

jim

[Pedro Reyes]

How does the usefulness of a skew rabbet plane (like a 289 or it's LV incarnation) compare to a skew rabbet block (140 or soon to be released by LV version)?
...

Jim,

I don't have a complete 289 yet, will likely give up and cough up to get one of Rob's wonderful tools. I do have a 78 and a LN 140. Both useful.

But being that in most work you can avoid cutting a rabbet on endgrain by cutting crossgrain instead (as said in most cases) I think a 78 or 289 is more useful for me, provided you have a nicker.

The 140 is a handsome tool, but as mentioned there is some concern with the body flexing, and for the most part I find the 78 easier to hold and guide over long cuts, based on size and the fact that it has a tote. I am speaking solely on a comparison for rabbet work, there is a place for low angle block planes.

just my $0.02

/p

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

I don't have a complete 289 yet, will likely give up and cough up to get one of Rob's wonderful tools. I do have a 78 and a LN 140. Both useful.

But being that in most work you can avoid cutting a rabbet on endgrain by cutting crossgrain instead (as said in most cases) I think a 78 or 289 is more useful for me, provided you have a nicker.

The 140 is a handsome tool, but as mentioned there is some concern with the body flexing, and for the most part I find the 78 easier to hold and guide over long cuts, based on size and the fact that it has a tote. I am speaking solely on a comparison for rabbet work, there is a place for low angle block planes.

just my $0.02

/p

The discussion may have mislead you, me or both of us. My comments were not meant to lead anyone to think of cutting a rabbet on end grain as a standard work method. My first reading of Jim Belair's question was that he meant cleaning up a cut on end grain, not necessarily cutting a rabbet on end grain. Maybe for miter trimming the #140 could work better than some of the other common block planes, but an adjustable mouth also lends much to this task.

I think most planes have a use at which they excel. Some may only have this "raison d'être" realized by securing papers from threats of a breeze. I have the Record version of the 78 and it is good for cutting rabbets on a long board. though my #45 seems more useful for this task.

I think the #140 excels at trimming tenon cheeks or the faces of lap joints.

Of course, like so many things, these are just opinions and should be seen as nothing more than that.

[harry strasil]

FWIW, most any plane, set fine and skewed some will do a nice job on end grain.

Skewing a fine set trying plane or jointer works best for planing with the grain for finishing a wide board surface.

[Jim Koepke]

FWIW, most any plane, set fine and skewed some will do a nice job on end grain.

FWIW, I have found that even a bench plane without skewing can make a continuos shaving on end grain as long as the blade is very sharp.

Found some pictures of one wooden rabbet plane. Found another, but it looked more like a rabbet side scraper.

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jim

[harry strasil]

IT WORKS, and doesn't look bad either. But I think the pallet wood is Hickory, not Oak the way it works.

1. after roughing out the wedge and sawing the main part for the blade, I glued the left side to the main body, then putting the wedge and temporary iron (a 1/2" 45 blade) in place, I glued the front part of the main body to the left side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/rebate01.jpg


2. I ripped the left side which was the same thickness as the center part in half and glued the ripped half to the the body.


3. I cut the ends flush and worked the sole down smooth and ripped off some of the top so the iron is exposed.

4. I spent about 4 minutes honing the cutter sharp. It is one of a set I picked up years ago from a tool place, that he collected 45's and he dumped all the blades in a container and I could pick out what I wanted for $.50 a blade. So I got a full set, He must have had at least 200 45 main bodies in a bin. The iron needed a bit of work as someone tried to sharpen it and really messed it up.

It came out looking like this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/rebate02.jpg

I used a back saw to make 2 cuts 1/2 wide, used a 3/8 chisel to pop our some of the waste so the trial run would not wonder around and the initial cut was really a treat to do.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/rebate03.jpg

Now to put some danish oil on it after tapering the chip hole so it will clean itself and then when it warms up to forge a proper iron for it.

This project has really got me going. Now I will make bodies for 1/4, 3/8 and 3/4 irons.

I really like the smaller size compared to a normal woody rebate plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Looks good.

Would that be a Krenov style rabbet?

jim

[harry strasil]

If he makes his planes from pieces, I guess so. I prefer to call it a Jr. Style. LOL

[harry strasil]

I have a piece of beech I squared up from the front section of a rather abused and dryrotted old trying plane I picked up for I think $3 that I am going to make a skew angle shoot board plane from with a laid on iron from an old coffin smooth plane I got for I think $5 that the side was split out on. I am going to use my new to me tailed Miter Saw to cut the mouth out for it. it will be at a 45 too.

I am still debating where to place the handle, I think I will position it over the blade and back just a bit.

[Eric Brown]

Here are pictures of Stanley 67 Rabbet spokeshaves (1 flat, 1 round bottom), One 2 1/4" brass spokeshave (unknown maker). 1 double bladed finger shave, (unknown maker). A group of metal rabbet planes Stanley 78 (modified), Craftsman, Record 778. Another view of Stanley 78 showing modification into dovetail plane by addition of angled sole and reground blade. (Still working on this one!) A group of wooden rabbets.

Eric

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[James Taglienti]

What do you guys think about the skew block planes? I borrowed a miller's falls #7 from a friend and couldn't get it to work satisfactorily at all on long grain. The front and back were out by a few thousandths too. The only time i could get it to work was when i really cranked the side plate on there, and that kind of took away half the purpose of the plane. i gave it back to him pretty quickly. i really want to love the plane - it has got a skewed cutter, it can rabbet, it has a cool removable side plate, and you can get fences for some on them. that sounds like it should be a home run- but i was really disappointed with the 7.

[John Eaton]

Something I've always wondered - if you have a 10 1/2 or similar what's the purpose of the lateral adjuster? If you're working to close up the mouth for a parellel cut and use the adjuster (typical with normal plane use) it pushes the iron to one side or the other and you don't have a flat cut to the side. Takes a lot of fiddling to get it right, to the point where I usually put it down and grab a woodie. Just my two cents.

-- John

[Jim Koepke]

What do you guys think about the skew block planes? I borrowed a miller's falls #7 from a friend and couldn't get it to work satisfactorily at all on long grain. The front and back were out by a few thousandths too. The only time i could get it to work was when i really cranked the side plate on there, and that kind of took away half the purpose of the plane. i gave it back to him pretty quickly. i really want to love the plane - it has got a skewed cutter, it can rabbet, it has a cool removable side plate, and you can get fences for some on them. that sounds like it should be a home run- but i was really disappointed with the 7.

Sounds like it may need more than a few laps on a plate to take off the excess weight.

My experience with low angle bevel up on long grain has me wondering if
it was meant for this.

jim

[James Taglienti]

jim i thought the 140 was a standard angle block

[Jim Koepke]

jim i thought the 140 was a standard angle block

You are right, the cutter is bedded at 20°.

If you look at Blood & Gore, he mentions problems with the sole not always being co-planer. That may be why mine does not do well running with the grain. I have not done much more to mine than get the blade sharpened at the correct angle for the skew.

jim