DMT Sharpening

[jeff phillips]

I'm pretty new to this whole hand tool thing, and while I really enjoy it, I've been struggling with sharpening.

On the recomendation of my local woodcraft store, I purchased DMT sharpening stones in grits running through X-course through X-fine. The problem is, that after using them for 3 months, I don't think the X-fine actually goes fine enough.

Not really wanting to change courses at this point and go with water stones, what options are there for a "dry" system that will be the next step after my current X-fine plate?

I've been doing a lot of reading, and it looks like spyderco has a ultra fine ceramic stone that appears to get good reviews. They seem to be much more commonly used for straight razors though, not chisels and plane irons.

Can anyone please help point me in the right direction here?

Thanks.

[Tom Winship]

I attended a recent dovetail course at Homestead Heritage in Elm Mott, Tx. Part of the course was sharpening. The instructor (Frank Strazza) used DMT's course, then extra fine. He then used an 8000 grit waterstone. He said you could use oilstones, etc. Then he went to leather strop with the "green stuff" on it. One of the assistants there told me he went straight from the extra fine diamond to the strop. There was some discussion about how many times to strop the edge, but I didn't hear an exact number.
Hope this helps. Sure you will get better answers.
Tom

[Ron Hock]

I agree with Tom about the jump to an 8000-grit stone. But before you add the waterstone to your kit, you may want to look at DMT's 8000-grit diamond plate (http://www.dmtsharp.com/products/diasharp.htm). I have no problem with waterstones, but if you're happy with diamond plates you may want to look into it.

In the interest of full disclosure DMT was generous and very helpful with research for my book. Stan Watson is a valuable resource in the world of sharpening and knows everything about diamonds and how to use them (for sharpening, anyway).

[Matt Stiegler]

Jeff, welcome to SMC.

You probably know it already, but in case you don't, Ron is The Man when it comes to sharpening. His book he's referring to is here (http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Edge-Sharpening-Woodworkers-Woodworking/dp/1558708588/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263575362&sr=8-1), and IMO it is first-rate. No affiliation.

[Joel Goodman]

I often use the DMTs for my coarse sharpening and then use a waterstone or two for the fine grits. You will want to get to at least 4000 and most folks go to 8000 grit. The DMT extra fine is I think 1200. I would get an 8000 grit waterstone. An option you could try for little cost is just adding a stropping with Veritas honing compound on a piece of MDF. It may be a large jump from 1200 to the compound but with a microbevel is might be fine. The compound is about $10 and you'll still be "dry".

[Bruce Campbell]

I attended a recent dovetail course at Homestead Heritage in Elm Mott, Tx. Part of the course was sharpening. The instructor (Frank Strazza) used DMT's course, then extra fine. He then used an 8000 grit waterstone. He said you could use oilstones, etc. Then he went to leather strop with the "green stuff" on it. One of the assistants there told me he went straight from the extra fine diamond to the strop. There was some discussion about how many times to strop the edge, but I didn't hear an exact number.
Hope this helps. Sure you will get better answers.
Tom

First post, been lurking too long.

I attended a one week course at Homestead Heritage when Paul Sellers was teaching it as my intro to woodworking. Same set up on DMT stones, in fact I went and immediately bought a course and an extra fine right after the class and am still using them.

In my opinion, after straying to a couple other sharpening systems, the DMT method they use there makes your blades workable but not necessarily sharp. That said I still use the system which is basically before each major process you hit it with 20 laps on the course, 20 on the extra fine, 10 on the strop (or so my notes which I still have from 6 years ago say, won't swear I didn't write them correctly). In between the extra fine and the strop, remove the back burr. Periodically, hit the blade with the extra fine and the strop through your working day to keep it sharp.

To hit on the sharp part, however, I managed to snag on to 16x36x3/4 inch piece of glass at ReStore (habitat for humanity overstock store) for 3 bucks and gave the scary sharp method a try. I discovered a new level of sharp and the difference is amazing. I'm still a diamond plate fan, however, so as money permits I'm going to pick up a full range of the DMT dia sharp stones which should serve the same purpose. It's a big financial hit but seeing as I went through 6 sheets of BORG 90 grit sandpaper rebeveling all my blades after my Mk.II honing guide showed me the light on square and repeatable, it seems like a bargain long term.

[Jim Koepke]

Jeff,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile does not show your location. You may live close to another member who will be happy to "come on over" and help you with sharpening.

The DMT 8000 stone information indicates it is a 3 micron grit size.
I do not know if this works down to be a finer grit with use.

An 8000 water stone is 1-1.2 micron grit size depending on who makes it.

Another option for staying dry is different abrasive sheets on a piece of glass or ceramic tile. Some Automotive supply stores carry very fine abrasive sheets for auto finishing.

There have been a lot of threads on sharpening, it is something each person has to find the way they like best.

Currently my preferred method is water stones. It is a bit messy, but my left arm is as smooth as a baby's butt after a few blades are touched up. If a lot of blades need to be done, my right arm also gets shaved.

jim

[jeff phillips]

I went down to my local woodcraft store over lunch to see what they have, and it looks like I have two options based off of what I have been told here and also in store.

I can get the extra-extra-fine DMT plate for about $89, which is supposedly 8000grit. This would be my ideal option; however, in looking at that plate, it seems awful smooth, and makes me wonder if there is too much of a jump between the extra fine and the extra extra fine, and if I need to use something in between.

The other option, is to get a 8000grit water stone. The shaptons look nice and I have heard raves about them; however, they need to be flattened and the flattening plate is around $300. The stones themselves are "only" around $80. This begs the question, can I flatten the shapton 8000grit with one of my current DMT stones? If so, what effect does it have on the DMT? My understanding is that with the shapton, it really only needs to be sprayed with water, not dunked and soaked, so I could live with this.

Can anyone offer an insight into the questions on my two options?

[Michael Faurot]

I attended a one week course at Homestead Heritage when Paul Sellers was teaching it as my intro to woodworking. Same set up on DMT stones, in fact I went and immediately bought a course and an extra fine right after the class and am still using them.


Unless Paul Sellers and Frank Strazza have changed things--they don't use DMT stones. They use, and sell, EZE Lap diamond stones.

[Eddie Darby]

Micro abrasive sheets, on a granite plate, or plate glass is the route I would take after the X-Fine DMT.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=33004&cat=1,43072

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32526&cat=1,43513,51657

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=33017&cat=1,43072

[Mike Henderson]

I went down to my local woodcraft store over lunch to see what they have, and it looks like I have two options based off of what I have been told here and also in store.

I can get the extra-extra-fine DMT plate for about $89, which is supposedly 8000grit. This would be my ideal option; however, in looking at that plate, it seems awful smooth, and makes me wonder if there is too much of a jump between the extra fine and the extra extra fine, and if I need to use something in between.

The other option, is to get a 8000grit water stone. The shaptons look nice and I have heard raves about them; however, they need to be flattened and the flattening plate is around $300. The stones themselves are "only" around $80. This begs the question, can I flatten the shapton 8000grit with one of my current DMT stones? If so, what effect does it have on the DMT? My understanding is that with the shapton, it really only needs to be sprayed with water, not dunked and soaked, so I could live with this.

Can anyone offer an insight into the questions on my two options?
Like other people here, I use the DMT stones for coarse work and use water stones for fine sharpening. I use the DMT stones to flatten the water stones, generally the coarse DMT stone just because it's faster than a finer one.

Mike

[Tom Winship]

Unless Paul Sellers and Frank Strazza have changed things--they don't use DMT stones. They use, and sell, EZE Lap diamond stones.
Michael, I guess they have changed. I saw Frank again at the LN Hand Tool Event in Austin last weekend and he said again that they were DMT Dia Sharp, 8x3. They even sell them in the store at Homestead Heritage.
Have not met Paul.
Tom Winship

[Michael Faurot]

Michael, I guess they have changed. I saw Frank again at the LN Hand Tool Event in Austin last weekend and he said again that they were DMT Dia Sharp, 8x3. They even sell them in the store at Homestead Heritage.


Thanks for the update. The last time I was there, perhaps 1-1/2 - 2 years ago, they were selling the EZE Lap stuff. I wound up getting some DMT stones myself, as they're easier to find than the EZE lap ones.

[Bob Barkto]

The jump from extra-fine to xx-fine is not too great. I use that on hard steels to good effect.
The finish off a xx-fine stone is ok, but can be improved by stropping.
I use .25 - .5 micron diamond paste on leather. .5 micron green compound works just as good. For a lot of work the xx-fine dmt is sufficient in my experience. But for finish planing or paring where the surface left by the tool will be seen I like to strop.

I think the jump from the x-fine diamomd to an 8k waterstone would not be too great either. You might have to make 10 or 12 passes on the 8k instead of 5 or 6, or sometrhing like that...
You could skip the stropping then and have a very good edge imo.

I use coarse and xx-coarse dmt's for flattening all other stones. I don't know that it would hurt it if used or flattening an 8k shapton. Should be ok. It handles india, other water stones and arkansas stones just fine.

Hope this is helpful.


I went down to my local woodcraft store over lunch to see what they have, and it looks like I have two options based off of what I have been told here and also in store.

I can get the extra-extra-fine DMT plate for about $89, which is supposedly 8000grit. This would be my ideal option; however, in looking at that plate, it seems awful smooth, and makes me wonder if there is too much of a jump between the extra fine and the extra extra fine, and if I need to use something in between.

The other option, is to get a 8000grit water stone. The shaptons look nice and I have heard raves about them; however, they need to be flattened and the flattening plate is around $300. The stones themselves are "only" around $80. This begs the question, can I flatten the shapton 8000grit with one of my current DMT stones? If so, what effect does it have on the DMT? My understanding is that with the shapton, it really only needs to be sprayed with water, not dunked and soaked, so I could live with this.

Can anyone offer an insight into the questions on my two options?

[jeff phillips]

Well, just as an update. I ended up buying the DMT extra-extra-fine. I figured I'd been happy with them so far, why change now.

I've had a chance to sharpen two two-cherries chisels with it, and it appears to work. It isn't the huge difference in sharpness I was expecting, but it does allow for a noticably sharper edge. I am a bit confused though, as I expected a visually finer finish to the cutting edge; however, the scratch pattern, to me, is visually indistinguishable.

I'll try it on the blade for my LN #4 tomorrow and see what happens.

thank you for all your help.

[Jim Koepke]

I went down to my local woodcraft store over lunch to see what they have, and it looks like I have two options based off of what I have been told here and also in store.

I can get the extra-extra-fine DMT plate for about $89, which is supposedly 8000grit. This would be my ideal option; however, in looking at that plate, it seems awful smooth, and makes me wonder if there is too much of a jump between the extra fine and the extra extra fine, and if I need to use something in between.

The other option, is to get a 8000grit water stone. The shaptons look nice and I have heard raves about them; however, they need to be flattened and the flattening plate is around $300. The stones themselves are "only" around $80. This begs the question, can I flatten the shapton 8000grit with one of my current DMT stones? If so, what effect does it have on the DMT? My understanding is that with the shapton, it really only needs to be sprayed with water, not dunked and soaked, so I could live with this.

Can anyone offer an insight into the questions on my two options?

For flattening a water stone a piece of granite tile and some 150 - 220 grit sandpaper works fine. Wear a dust mask when doing this. A lot less in cost than a special flattening plate that so many have had the experience of not being flat.

I did mine yesterday and it is amazing how much faster and better blade sharpening is. I do not flatten as often as most. But if you want the ultimate in sharp blades to make smooth shavings every little bit helps.

jim

[Mark Stutz]

For flattening a water stone a piece of granite tile and some 150 - 220 grit sandpaper works fine. Wear a dust mask when doing this. A lot less in cost than a special flattening plate that so many have had the experience of not being flat.

I did mine yesterday and it is amazing how much faster and better blade sharpening is. I do not flatten as often as most. But if you want the ultimate in sharp blades to make smooth shavings every little bit helps.

jim

Jim,
It sounds as if you flatten them dry. I usually end up doing this wet, since I hat the granite plate a bit every time I go back to touch up an edge. No fine dust if you do it wet...and I don't bother with wet/dry paper.

Mark

[Leon Jester]

I'm pretty new to this whole hand tool thing, and while I really enjoy it, I've been struggling with sharpening.

On the recomendation of my local woodcraft store, I purchased DMT sharpening stones in grits running through X-course through X-fine. The problem is, that after using them for 3 months, I don't think the X-fine actually goes fine enough.

Not really wanting to change courses at this point and go with water stones, what options are there for a "dry" system that will be the next step after my current X-fine plate?

I've been doing a lot of reading, and it looks like spyderco has a ultra fine ceramic stone that appears to get good reviews. They seem to be much more commonly used for straight razors though, not chisels and plane irons.

Can anyone please help point me in the right direction here?

Thanks.

I've the Spyderco triangular ceramics, the black suffices for my needs there, the white is extremely fine. Cleanup with Bon Ami. The flat stones should do the same.

Alternatively, you can use W/D paper with either water or oil (I prefer oil) on a flat surface -- some use 0.250" plate glass, which can be obtained from a glass shop, I'd ask for used plate, it's scrap from broken windows they salvage and re-use. Pay a bit more and get the edges ground down rounded and smooth.

Other than that, I'm not much help, I'm one of those "if it shaves, it's sharp" people, I don't polish edges.