Lookin for a shaper profile

[Glen Butler]

Has anyone seen or know where to get this handrail shaper profile?

[John Harden]

I like the design of that. I've not seen any all that similiar, particularly the top section. You may need to have 60mm blanks custom ground to make it. Lot's of places can do it for you relatively quickly.

[Brad Shipton]

Do you have a corrogated insert head? If so, mirror reflections probably has that profile in their catalog. They can direct you to someone that might produce one for you. I have had several blades made. Custom blades are not cheap by anymeans. They first make a plastic blank to hog out the majority of the steel and then someone has to program the profile into their grinder. The hand rail one I had made was something like $200 per blade. Many charge somewhere between $20 - 50 per inch of the profile.

If it is a small run, I know of some old timers that make them theirselves using softer steels than a moulder co would use.

By the way, that is not really that uncommon of a profile. You could probably find a moulder co. to make you that for less than what it will cost you after you get all the materials. I discovered that a bit too late into the game when I did mine. Railing built by a professional moulder will have quite a few less chatter marks. I know I spent a few hours sanding my railing.

Actually, looking at this again you could probably create that profile in two passes per face using a couple of Freud's profiles. I think they actually have a couple of router cutters that might do it and that might save you a few $$.

Brad

[Glen Butler]

This design is very common in my neck of the woods. Alder is popular and relatively inexpensive, and this profile is stocked. But for cherry, hickory, and pretty much everything else, I get dinged a premium -- around $20/ft. for cherry. It only takes one rail to pay for the cutters. Then there are the custom goosenecks and curves that cost nearly $200 per piece. Most of that is labor-- money I can keep for myself in these tight times.

Brad, Mirror Reflections is the company? I tried googling with no luck. Got a number or email for them? That is what I am trying to find is a company that already has the profile so hopefully I don't get dinged the premium to make it custom.

[Brad Shipton]

IC. You found a different result than I did. I was quoted a $100 extra for a short run, plus the normal cost for material and running the profiles. I admit I never go into the fact that there was a glueup to prep the stock. I know I priced out some 16/4 Cherry stock and quickly discarded that idea.

You can buy the cad profile template from mirror reflections, but they dont make profiles for guys like us. If you have a cad program you can draw up what ever you like. Thats what I did.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/House%20Stairs/DSC01901.jpg




I have had Weinig make custom cutters for me and you can buy there profiles online. Moulder heads are very similar in many ways, but you do need to pay attention when you buy from them. They are used to selling to moulder operators that have left, right, top and bottom heads.

The last set I had made came from a custom grinding service near me and they did a great job. Even the moulder co's will make them. All of them have the grinders.

http://www.mirror-reflections.com/
http://www.weinigusa.com/tooling/tooling.php

[Steve Clardy]

That's a common profile in handrails.
I've bought and installed it before.
I think it originates from J.L. Smith stair parts co.

[Glen Butler]

That's a common profile in handrails.
I've bought and installed it before.
I think it originates from J.L. Smith stair parts co.

This is why I was hoping I could find a stock cutter somewhere. Getting it custom made is about $800.

[Walter Plummer]

I think Steve is on the right track.http://www.ljsmith.net/lj-6601.html Unless you need some totally custom fitting I would buy the parts. There will still be a lot of woodworking cut and install the parts. Trust me, stairs are fun at the beginning and the end. In between not so much.:rolleyes:

[Walter Plummer]

If you are set on making it some other places to try are: cggschnidt.com. weaver-sales.com and we get our knives ground at cayceco.com.

[Jim Bowers]

http://www.lrhent.com/k1885.htm think this is what you are looking for

[Richard Wolf]

That turns into a very large cutter. 3" cutter mounted in a 4" holder equals about 8" or 9" diameter head spinning in your machine.
I also don't think you can make any up easings with a cutter of that dia. in a shaper. Even with a sled, the cutting arc will not allow you to make a 9" radius up easing. If you have if figured out, I would love to see it.

Richard

[Glen Butler]

The drawing is saying that the outer diameter of the cutter should be no larger than 3" but if you were confused by that maybe I should confirm that my quotes were not artificially high because they thought the cutter was larger than I want.

[Steve Clardy]

Maybe investigate the cost of two set of cutters.
One for the sides, one for the top.
Several years ago I needed to recreate some 4-1/2" wide by 2-1/2" tall handrail for a restoration project in Liberty Mo.

138639

Fire had taken out the original upper story staircase.
I priced cutters, and it was cheaper to have 2 sets made.
Plus the fact is wasn't a near as hairy/butt tightening operation running a curved railing with smaller cutters.

In fact, Ballew Tools, the ones that made the cutters, highly suggested this, as they did not want to make the cutter one piece. They said it would probably break.

[Walter Plummer]

Even if you are looking to get a "cutter" not knives for a molding head, I think the minimum diameter would still be 4.75"+. 1.375" cut x 2 =3.5" + 1 1/4" spindle washer diameter. As Richard pointed out if you are putting knives in a molding head that is already 4" in dia. then your cutting circle is at 7.5"+ because you need a little more for clearance at the molding head.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

This looks a lot more like a profile for two knives on a W & H or belkin moulder. .. Of course if you do a lot you might find a shop fox + custom knives still make sense. I think custom moulding knives in NH price would still be about $400-$500 if my calculation is right. But cgg schmitt has a similar stock set, though I think it is a bit smaller
interestingly enough I think the thickness of the one you are drawing is to large to meet the "universally accessible standard". Too hard to grasp the big top.

[Glen Butler]

Even if you are looking to get a "cutter" not knives for a molding head, I think the minimum diameter would still be 4.75"+. 1.375" cut x 2 =3.5" + 1 1/4" spindle washer diameter. As Richard pointed out if you are putting knives in a molding head that is already 4" in dia. then your cutting circle is at 7.5"+ because you need a little more for clearance at the molding head.


I am not understanding where this arbitrary 4.75" is coming from. I am not putting knives in a molding head that is 4" in diameter either. But please explain what you mean.

I am looking for a brazed shaper cutter that fits a 1 1/4" spindle, plus 1 3/8" for the profile depth, plus whatever is necessary for the body of the cutter. I see no reason the upper cutter needs to be larger than 6". Even less would work as my raised panel cutter is 6" and it cuts a 1 5/8" profile.

[Walter Plummer]

Sorry, I think I misunderstood where the thread was going. If you just plan on making straight runs of rail the cutting circle is not an issue. If you want to make fittings to use with the rail a small cutting circle is desirable. I was just estimating the smallest you might be able to get to.

[Glen Butler]

I do want to make custom fittings. Left/Right hand turn I have figured out. It is the upeasings that have me baffled. I can see how the small diameter will benefit, and it is also necessary to run the top separate from the side. I guess I should look into a molder knive set to run the top on a upeasing, but I don't know how it would clear the internals of the molder. Perhaps I should run upeasings on edge using a shaper head that has the whole 2 3/4' cap profile parallel with the spindle.

[Richard Wolf]

Glen, making fittings on a shaper is a difficult and dangerous task. I have a jig, which looks like half a ferris wheel, to do the side profile on upeasings. The top profiles I always do by hand. The cutter circle is always too large on a shaper to cut the top of an upeasing. But even level turns are dangerous because your blanks are always small pieces, (to save material) and your hands end up being way to close to the cutter. I know a good stairbuidler that took off three fingers trying to make a custom volute.
You seem like you have enough experinece at this to realize that putting your hands in danger is not worth the cost of any fitting.
Be safe.

Richard

[Glen Butler]

Richard,

I do have jig plans that will keep my hands well clear of the cutterhead. Could you post a pic of your ferris wheel jig, that may give me some better ideas. Thanks.