Rough Cut Lumber for Table Top

[Doug Burkart]

I am new to the forum and would like some advice.

I have a table with solid red oak (I think) legs and frame with a Formica top. What I want to do is make a solid oak top for it. The current table top is 1 1/2" thick and I would like to keep the same thickness. Am I assuming correct that I would need 8/4 lumber and then plane it down to 1 1/2"? I have a 6 1/8" jointer and a 12 1/2" planer that I will use to finish the boards.

I never bought rough cut lumber before and would like to know if this is the correct size lumber to buy. Any tips on picking out rough cut lumber to finish? Also do you guys know what I can expect to pay a board foot for this stuff?

I am located in Chambersburg, PA which is right on the boarder of PA and MD. I am looking at going to Hicksville Planing Mill or Klingler Family Sawmill. Are there any other sawmills in the area that you would recommend?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Doug

[Dave Gaul]

Hi Doug...

I can't answer all your questions, but I think you are on the right track! 8/4 is probably the best way to go, unless you want to resaw the lumber and then book-match the pieces for you top, but that depends on your skill level and equipment available.

The cost varies and depends on many things... is the lumber dried? how was it dried? local costs vary too... quality of the wood it's self, how it was cut... you could pay up to ~$5 or more for 8/4 QSRO.

I would give each of those mills you listed a call, and if close enough, visit both of them and see which one gives you the best overall service!

[Matt Evans]

Doug, welcome to SMC.

That is the normal method. Tips: Take a block plane with you and check out the grain on a few boards. It is much easier to color and grain match if you do. Try to get pieces out of the same board, if possible. If heavy checking is evident on a piece you are looking to buy, clean up the end for about 18" or so, to make sure the checks don't go further than you expect. Ending up with short boards is no fun, and that fuzz obscures the checking, so it is hard to tell.

Near Chambersburg you should be able to find the wood relatively inexpensive ( I would think). In small quantities you might be paying more, but I wouldn't pay more than $3.00-$3.25 /BDFT for rough red oak. You can get it S2S for about $4 / BDFT, possibly a bit less.

I am not familiar with the local sawmills there. My suggestion would be to call one of the local millwork or cabinet shops, and ask who they recommend. They might even have a supply they would be willing to part with to get it out of their shop.

[Lee Schierer]

The method you describe is one way to get a thick looking top. The problem with thick tops is they weigh a ton and thick wood can cost a premium. You can achieve the same look if you glue on strips around the edges matching the grain direction on each side so the top looks thick, but is really only 3/4" thick with a thick edge border. It will look the same but be half the weight and cost for material.

[Matt Evans]

The method you describe is one way to get a thick looking top. The problem with thick tops is they weigh a ton and thick wood can cost a premium. You can achieve the same look if you glue on strips around the edges matching the grain direction on each side so the top looks thick, but is really only 3/4" thick with a thick edge border. It will look the same but be half the weight and cost for material.

Lee is correct. (I just like heavy table tops. Better bench substitutes.)

If you look at any counter top out there that is exactly how they are done. To preserve the illusion, you just run 3/4" laterals across the bottom in between the edging.

[Brad Wood]

The need for 8/4 in order to get a 6/4 top will be dependent on how straight the lumber is to begin with.

I just did a table top and started with 8/4 and the final thickness is 1 and 5/8th's... but there was a lot of twisting, cupping, bowing, etc, that I had to work out... and it was over 8' lengths, so there was a lot of linnear area that needed to be addressed.

I think also you skill with the jointer will have a lot to do with it.

[Matt Day]

Don't forget to keep an eye on the width of the boards you're looking through. They should be less than 6 1/8" or you'll have to rip them down to joint them, unless you use a planer sled (search that term and you'll find out what i mean).

[Don C Peterson]

Don't forget to keep an eye on the width of the boards you're looking through. They should be less than 6 1/8" or you'll have to rip them down to joint them, unless you use a planer sled (search that term and you'll find out what i mean).

Not if you use hand planes...(he muttered as he slunk back peace and quiet of his neander-cave)

[Scott T Smith]

Doug, a top that is 1-1/2" thick will weigh quite a bit. Most table tops are 3/4" - 7/8" thick, perhaps 1". A lot of counter tops that have laminate use a partical board for the substrate, and since it is not as strong in tension as oak it has to be thicker.

When buying from a mill, unless you are in a position to dry the lumber yourself I would recommend that you purchase kiln dried stock. Lumber dried in a dehumidification or solar kiln will machine similar to air dried lumber; lumber dried in a steam or conventional kiln is often viewed as machining a little bit differently than AD stock.

If you purchase quartersawn oak boards for your top, you will have significantly less expansion issues to deal with across the width of the top, as opposed to flatsawn lumber.

8/4 stock costs signficantly more than 4/4 stock per board foot, primarily due to the increased cost in kiln drying (takes 2.5 x longer to dry 8/4 than 4/4). Budget wise, if you want to stick with a 6/4 finished thickness then one option is to face glue two 3/4 boards together. When working with FS material, alternating the growth rings (as viewed from the end) will result in a more stable board too. If you do buy 8/4 material, be sure to machine down both sides equally as you reduce it's thickness from 8/4 to 6/4. Often times there is a significant delta between the core and surface MC% on 8/4 lumber, and if you don't mill the outsides down equally your boards will often cup.

If I were you, I'd try to buy boards that came from the same log (bookmatched would be ideal), and ones that were as flat as possible in both directions. Obviously you want to study grain patterns so that your glue-ups will have the best appearance. My personal preference would be QS material. I would study the ends of the boards to see if there is any significant checking; if so you will want to remove the last several inches of the board to make sure that you have solid material, so take that into account when purchasing. If your wood supplier's RS stock looks pretty clean on the ends (few if any checks/cracks), then you're probably dealing with a knowledgable miller and kiln operator.

Mill costs vary depend upon location and availability of local oak, most places are between $2.00 - 3.00 bd ft for 4/4 FS oak, and $4.00 - 6.00 for QS 4/4 oak. 8/4 usually costs 50% more per bd ft, or thereabouts. Extremely wide QS boards bring a sifgnificant premium due to their scarcity.

A moisture meter is a good thing to bring with you too, to verify the MC% of the wood. Ideally you want boards that are under 10% MC (unless you're buying AD stock that you intend to finish off yourself - in that instance 12% - 14% is acceptable). If you're buying stock that was stored outdoors, then it's best to obtain some boards from deeper down in the pile (more likely to be drier than the perimeter boards.

I'm sure that there will be other that chime in with great advice; this is just my 2 cents.

Scott

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Doug,
Dried red oak weighs about 3 pounds per board foot (12" X 12" X 1"). Six quarter finished oak (1 1/2" thick) will weigh 4 1/2 pounds per square foot. If your top is 42" X 8' you will have 126 pounds of table top. Having said this, as long as you have help when you glue it up and move it around, it will make a great top. Red oak is fairly stable but if you glue up 7 pieces of 6" wide face grain (cathedral grain) I can almost guarantee you you will not hold the top flat. Merely the fact that the top will be more exposed to ambient air from sunlight etc will cause it to lose more moisture than the bottom and the top will cup towards the top. Years ago we built a solid oak table top and we eventually torched the bottom to get it to flatten out. The good news was the customer liked it so much they asked for the top to also be torched for effect.
Consider breadboard ends or floating stringers across the width set into sliding dovetails to help keep it flat.
Also remember, even though the real beauty of red oak is in the face grain, quarter sawn oak or rift cut oak is more stable.
fmr

[Frank Drew]

Lotta good advice from Scott.

[Doug Burkart]

Thanks guys for all of your help. I am going to have to rethink the thickness of the table. I might go with 6/4 rough cut lumber and plane it down. The planer sled is a very good idea and I think I will give it a try.

Doug

[Scott T Smith]

Now this is odd.....

Yesterday I spent about 30 minutes writing a detailed response to this post. It posted successfully, and another SMC member even complimented me on my post, but now my response is gone...

Strange....

[Lee Schierer]

Now this is odd.....

Yesterday I spent about 30 minutes writing a detailed response to this post. It posted successfully, and another SMC member even complimented me on my post, but now my response is gone...

Strange....

I thought I had the same problem yesterday. I was sure I had responded but couldn't find my post. Then I discovered there were two identical posts here at SMC. Here is the other one with your comments:Rough cut lumber (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=129868)

[Rob Russell]

Now this is odd.....

Yesterday I spent about 30 minutes writing a detailed response to this post. It posted successfully, and another SMC member even complimented me on my post, but now my response is gone...

Strange....

That's because there were 2 threads. I've merged them so you can see your original response and we don't allow duplicate threads anyway.

[Scott T Smith]

That's because there were 2 threads. I've merged them so you can see your original response and we don't allow duplicate threads anyway.


Glad to know that I'm not going senile.... there is always that possibility! :D

[Frank Drew]

Don't forget to keep an eye on the width of the boards you're looking through. They should be less than 6 1/8" or you'll have to rip them down to joint them,

Actually, you can quite successfully face joint material up to just under twice your jointer's width by flipping end for end every other cut, keeping the same face down; it's very commonly done, particularly in professional shops that don't happen to have ultra-wide jointers.

[Paul Incognito]

Doug,
I've used these guys: http://www.groffslumber.com/ they're great to deal with. Great selection and they'll plane it for you for 20 cents more per bf.
PI