Set up my new Milwaukee SCMS today.

[keith micinski]

So this is the first tool I have ever bought that was set right at the factory which I was pretty happy about. I do have one issue though. When my blade is at 90 it is square with the table. If I rotate it to the left according to my Wixey box it is at 90.2 or 90.3. If I rotate it to the left it is at 89.8 or 89.7. This tells me the whole table is out of axis and there is nothing I can change about that. This would irritate me more if I paid 700 for this saw as opposed to 299. Is this an acceptable flaw or should I take it back? The Dewalt this is replacing is perfect when rotated to the 45's. As long as I cut the 45's on both sides then the .2 or .3 offset themselves. Plus I found if I put a little bit of pressure on the handle I can take the error out. Obviously I don't want to do that so I was wondering what you guys were thinking.

[Chuck Wintle]

So this is the first tool I have ever bought that was set right at the factory which I was pretty happy about. I do have one issue though. When my blade is at 90 it is square with the table. If I rotate it to the left according to my Wixey box it is at 90.2 or 90.3. If I rotate it to the left it is at 89.8 or 89.7. This tells me the whole table is out of axis and there is nothing I can change about that. This would irritate me more if I paid 700 for this saw as opposed to 299. Is this an acceptable flaw or should I take it back? The Dewalt this is replacing is perfect when rotated to the 45's. As long as I cut the 45's on both sides then the .2 or .3 offset themselves. Plus I found if I put a little bit of pressure on the handle I can take the error out. Obviously I don't want to do that so I was wondering what you guys were thinking.
That sounds like a reasonable margin of error of error.

[Frank Martin]

I have not opened mine yet, but my general feeling is it is probably better for carpentry due to large capacity. When it comes to cabinetry, likely a 10" version, perhaps the new Makita may be a bit more appropriate, due to less flex/better precision. I may go ahead and unload mine to get the new Makita instead. Compactness and better dust hookup for Makita are appealing to me.

[Allan Froehlich]

You should be able to adjust it to near perfect.

[Barry Wixey]

Keith. Are re-zeroing the angle gauge on the table after you rotate it? You would need to zero the angle gauge sitting on the table perpendicular to your blade before checking the angle. You may be picking up a few tenths of a degree that your saws surface is out of being level.

Man, I am not sure what I just said but I know what I mean. You have to re-zero the the gauge for every miter angle or the saw has to be sitting perfectly level. Maybe this is obvious and you are already doing that but I though I would throw in my 2 cents.

[keith micinski]

I am zeroing the gauge on the end of the table that doesn't actually turn with the blade it remains stationary. At 90 degrees the blade is perfectly square to the table. I then take the blade and rotate it to the left 45 degree stop. The blade now reads 90.2 or 90.3. If I then take the blade and rotate it over to the right 45 degree stop it reads 89.8 or 89.7. This tells me that the table is rotating off of its axis slightly and there is no adjustment for that other then turning the blade and re-squaring it every time I make a cut. I won't be doing that anytime soon.

[Chuck Wintle]

So this is the first tool I have ever bought that was set right at the factory which I was pretty happy about. I do have one issue though. When my blade is at 90 it is square with the table. If I rotate it to the left according to my Wixey box it is at 90.2 or 90.3. If I rotate it to the left it is at 89.8 or 89.7. This tells me the whole table is out of axis and there is nothing I can change about that. This would irritate me more if I paid 700 for this saw as opposed to 299. Is this an acceptable flaw or should I take it back? The Dewalt this is replacing is perfect when rotated to the 45's. As long as I cut the 45's on both sides then the .2 or .3 offset themselves. Plus I found if I put a little bit of pressure on the handle I can take the error out. Obviously I don't want to do that so I was wondering what you guys were thinking.
I'm confused. If the blade is rotated to the left would it not read 45 degrees ratherr than the 90 you state. or have I missed something?

[Jay Jeffery]

Are measuring this on cut pieces? How are you measuring the angles?

[keith micinski]

I must have not explained it clearly. I was checking the Blade's squareness in relation to the table at the 90 degree position and the 45 degree position. This has nothing to do with the angles the saw was cutting. I am using my Wixey angle box to determine the angle of the blade to the table. Or I guess I should have said the bevel of the blade if that helps.

[Alan Schwabacher]

What Barry was saying is that if you did not re-zero the Wixey between measurements, your deviation could be simply because your saw table is not perfectly level. The Wixey is simply a high-tech plumb line with a protractor to measure the angle in a particular direction. You need to make sure it's the right direction.

Zero it on the table, and then turn it while it remains flat on the table. It will probably change because the table is not perfectly level. All you need to do is to re-zero the Wixey, while on the table, set to measure the angle perpendicular to the blade.

[Van Huskey]

If you are going to keep it, try some error doubling dynamic testing and see what you end up with.

[keith micinski]

I understand what you are saying but I am never removing the Wixey from the blade. I am simply rotating the blade in relation to the table. The box should be able to be spun around in a 360 degree circle just like a plumb bob and alway remain level unless the circle is spinning off axis. This is what is happening I believe because the left side is off 180 degrees from the right side. I will go out and remove it and rezero it each time and see what I come up with though. I wish I could get my framing square in there better to check it with it also.

[Nick Laeder]

I understand what you are saying but I am never removing the Wixey from the blade. I am simply rotating the blade in relation to the table. The box should be able to be spun around in a 360 degree circle just like a plumb bob and alway remain level unless the circle is spinning off axis. This is what is happening I believe because the left side is off 180 degrees from the right side. I will go out and remove it and rezero it each time and see what I come up with though. I wish I could get my framing square in there better to check it with it also.

Let's say you shimmed up the right side of the saw 1/2" and then adjusted the bevel so that the gauge reads 90* at 90*. Then as you rotated the miter, the blade would not stay at 90*, right?

The only way the test you're trying would show the reality is if the saw is perfectly level. Since it's off a similar amount in different directions, I'd bet that the whole shooting match is just out of level.

[keith micinski]

Here are some pictures of what I am saying. The first one is the level box sitting on the stationary table edge at exactly 90 degrees.
The second picture is of the box on the saw blade withe saw at 90 degrees to the fence and the box is reading a perfect 90 degrees.
In the third picture without removing the box from the blade I have swung the saw over to the left 45 degree detent and the box is now reading 90. 3 or 90.4 it bounces in between the two.
In the fourth picture I then swing the box over to the right 45 degree and it is reading 89.7. There is no doubt that the rotating part of the table is off axis to the fixed part of the table with these results. By the way I took the box off of the blade and re-zeroed it every time and got the same results.
I guess my question is that is 3 tenths of a degree really something to be worried about or should it be absolutely perfect. I know I get a little anal about my tolerances sometimes but I know that every bit the tool is out is the more perfect I have to be to make up for it. And if there is one ting I have learned it is that I need all the help I can get. Plus like I said earlier as long as I cut the 45 using each side and keep the same face up the slight bevel will actually match. I don't usually do this though when I am working with square pieces I just flip the one over and keep the saw turned the same way so that there is less room for error in keeping everything the same plus it is easier for me to cut on the left side of the blade.

[keith micinski]

Nick what you are saying is right except for one thing. When I zero the box out on the table to start with, that is assumed to be level whether it is or not and the .3 or .4 degree readings I am getting are actually using the level that the box set as zero even though it may not actually be level in the real world.that is the beauty of that box you just stick on one face press Zero, then you stick it on the other face and what ever it reads,that is how many degrees you are from the first face. I have always used it to set my table saw and every other saw because it is so quick and easy. I don't even use positive stops on the table saw anymore because it is so quick just to grab this and set the blade that way I don't have to worry about saw dust or something keeping the blade from actually making it all the way to the stop.

[Van Huskey]

Just hit mine with the Tilt Box (never cut wood either) 0.00 @90 0.00 @45 both left and right. Did it three times.

I honestly don't see an issue with .2 or .3 degrees but I can't see that error in my mind. would have to cut some wood make the joint and lay it on the TS to "see" what a couple of tenths look like over 30 or so inches.

[Ben Martin]

Did you get the one from Bolingbrook? Congrats!!

[keith micinski]

Well, actually I found one a little closer. I only had some 2 1/2 stock laying around and I did some test cuts with it and it looked ok but I like to test it with 1x6. I hate to take it back because they don't have anymore at that store and I would be missing out on this good deal but I also plan on keeping this saw for a long time and I want to be happy with it.

[keith micinski]

I am going to build a frame with it tomorrow and if I am happy with it I will keep it and if not then I guess I will just have to take it back and miss out on the good deal. I was really hoping someone else would chime in and say that theirs was out by that much to and it was no big deal they all are but now that I know yours is right on it will probably drive me nuts every time I use that saw. I am openly admitting I am probably being a freak over nothing but unfortunately that is just how I am I guess.

[Van Huskey]

I would not have given t a second thought if mine was out that much UNTIL I cut some wide stock matched it up and actually visualized what .3 degrees actually looks like. It may be so small you would never notice it. Quite frankly I have never Tilt Boxed a miter saw before and wouldn't have, would have just used my setup square and 45s and it it looked good and made what appeared to be accurate miters I would have never known the difference.

[Jeremy Killingbeck]

I would be interested to know how a 10 - 14" cut looks like on this saw. I was considering purchasing it, but then decided not to after I looked at it in the store.

[Paul Incognito]

Keith,
I did the same test with my DeWalt and it was out by about the same amount. It's something I can live with. If I'm cutting miters that have to be dead accurate, I use the table saw with a sled anyway.
PI

[Barry Wixey]

Keith. What Alan was saying is correct. It is hard to explain but you really have to spin the angle gauge so that is perpendicular to your blade at the 45 degree setting (even if you have it on the fixed table) zero it there and stick it on the blade. I bet you are dead on at 90.0 if you do that. I get this question a lot. You can not spin that gauge around 360 degree and have it read 0.0 in every spot unless your table is perfectly level.

Here is the canned email I send out constantly to explain this:

Try to visualize this:

If you have a flat table on a hill side with a 15 degree slope. The front and back edges of the table going up and down the hill. If you face the front of the table and place the gauge on it and press “zero” it will now read 0.0. If you then turn the gauge around to face the back of the table and go around the table and look at the gauge it will now read 30 degrees instead of 0.0. Double the angle of slope of the table relative to the center of the earth.

So, you always have to view the gauge from the same direction.

[Jeremy Killingbeck]

Well, actually I found one a little closer. I only had some 2 1/2 stock laying around and I did some test cuts with it and it looked ok but I like to test it with 1x6. I hate to take it back because they don't have anymore at that store and I would be missing out on this good deal but I also plan on keeping this saw for a long time and I want to be happy with it.

I would be interested to see how the saw does cutting a 12" board. I am just curious how much deflection the blade & slider will have. Keep me posted.

[Harry Hagan]

Not that Barry needs my support, but he’s correct.

Moving the SCMS from the 90° swing position to the 45° swing position is essentially transforming the SCMS into a different saw located in a different position when using the Wixey. Hence the Wixey gauge must be reset to zero before measuring the blade’s angle at that particular position.

Zeroing the Wixey not only factors in the blade’s relationship to the saw’s base; but also the supporting structure’s relationship to level at that particular point.

[keith micinski]

I re-zeroed the box after rotating the blade and got the same exact result even though I am not understanding why I should have to do that.

[keith micinski]

Barry I agree with your example. I think that my table is doing exactly what you are saying and is off axis from the stationary part of the table.The one question I do have is if you are saying that I am placing the box wrong on the blade. In the picture I am attaching the box on the blade in what I would call a parallel position. Are you saying I should rotate the box so that the face with the readout on it looks upwards from the table.

[keith micinski]

Jeremy I am in Tennessee today but will be back tomorrow so I will try a 12 inch board. I cut some 6 inch boards today and the mitre looked pretty good so I think I am going to keep it.

[Brian Ross]

No disrespect to those of you that own wixey's but I would not rely on them to be that accurate. They are not something you will find in a machine shop. I would check it with a machinists square.

Brian

[Barry Wixey]

Keith. You are putting it on the blade exactly right. I guess the steps I would take would be: 1. Rotate the table to 45 degrees. 2. Place the angle gauge on the fixed table and rotate it on its base 45 degrees so the side of the gauge is now parallel to your blade and press Zero. 3. Stick the gauge on the blade just like you have been doing.

I agree and disagree with Brian. An accurate square is the best way to check 90 degrees as they are more accurate than 0.1 degree like our gauge. However, I challenge anyone to find an easier more accurate way to set a bevel angle to 31.7 degrees.

[Brian Walter]

Keith, Barry is correct, until you correct your measurement procedure you won't know for certain whether or not the saw is at fault. To visualize what he is saying think of zeroing the Wixey as actually leveling what it's setting on. So with the Wixey facing you on the one end of the saw as you show in one of your pictures zeroing it will be like leveling the saw from left to right. If the saw isn't level from front to back, when you rotate the Wixey the reading will not stay at zero. If you rotate the Wixey and zero it, then take the reading you should get the correct reading. You need to zero the Wixey with it perpendicular to the saw blade, (when looking down on the Wixey and saw) then take the reading.

Brian Walter

[keith micinski]

Ok Barry, I see what you are saying about rotating the box so it is parallel to the blade on the table now. I will give that a shot.