Sharpening gouges

[Reed Gray]

Last fall, I took a 3 day workshop with Stewart and Allen Batty. I did one thread on "I thought I knew how to turn bowls". This started me experimenting with different grinds and profiles on my gouges. It also started me sharpening by hand. Well, for the last week and a half, and about 60 bowls, I have been sharpening my gouges on a flat tool rest (Veritas), with no jig. This is all of my bowl gouges, both swept back, and standard grind. I use a couple of wedges (about 5 inch by 3 inch, 1/2 to 1 inch high by the grinder wheel, and flush on the away side) with a wood bar on the bottom to go in the slot on the tool rest, to get the desired angle. This is proving to be amazingly simple, and considerably faster than putting each gouge in a jig. I may never use a jig again. You control how much of a wing you get by how far you roll the gouge to the side. You can set any angle simply.

robo hippy

[Duff Bement]

Do you have any pictures?


PS: are you still selling your videos on the bowl savers? I had to give the copy I had barrowed back and now I need it more than ever.

Duff

[Jim King]

I agree that sharpening is not a high tech art. I was in the States one time and went to a Woodcraft supplier show. I saw more tools and sharpening things and toys than I knew existed.

I came back to the Amazon and made a few new tools out of old files and car springs and sharpened them on a $20 Chinese grinder. They work better than what I saw there and are strong. Those little store bought tools feel to me like I am working with a finger nail file and I do not feel safe.

I like a big handle and some heft. This is a typical turning made with file and car spring tools. All glued up of scrap and the base is an inside out turning. It is a cooler good for a twelve pack.

[Stuart Reid]

I attended one of Stuart Batty's workshops at last falls SWAT Symposium in Wichita Falls, TX, and came away with the same ideas about simply sharpening on the grinder. He grinds all of his gouges at 40 degrees and does all of them on the grinder. He places tape on the platform at an angle from the wheel, about 45 degrees I think, and then turns the gouge within that area. he indicated that you can't get the same angle on all faces if you use a jig. I know that my sharpening is much better now and certainly much quicker.

His technique is to do each side separately and then take one or two passes around the top to meld them together. I have the Grizzly wet grinder - knock off on the Tormek, and it does a great job but Stuart Batty's method is so much quicker that my Grizzly hasn't been uncovered in a long while.

Stu

[Reed Gray]

Duff,
I sent you a PM.

As to pictures, well, note to self; learn how to use your camera, and have daughter help you load onto computer, and post on woodturning forums.

I have the tool rest on the grinder at a set angle (change the angle, and your tools will never stay sharp again!). Since it is a royal pain to readjust the angle for each different angle grind I use, I make wedge shaped platforms to go on the tool rest. The Veritas tool rest has a slot for a miter gauge. I make a piece of wood that will fit in it and screw and glut it to the under side of the wedge so that it stays in place. I change angles by using different wedges (flatter or steeper. Does that make more sense?

robo hippy

[Richard Madison]

It makes sense Reed, but we still need to see a video of grinding the wings, showing how you rotate/swing the tool left and right.

[Reed Gray]

Well, if I did this right, this link is Mike Mahoney doing his sharpening. It is the exact same method. More properly, his method and Stewarts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m8-8MNhpvY

robo hippy

[Richard Madison]

Thanks Reed. That's about what I thought. Looks like he swings about 45 degrees l. & r. Explained it in excruciating detail for the uninitiated, so a very good watch if you have a speedy connection and want to learn some cool sharpening stuff. With a bit of practice it would certainly beat fiddling with a jig.

[Curt Fuller]

Last fall, I took a 3 day workshop with Stewart and Allen Batty. I did one thread on "I thought I knew how to turn bowls". This started me experimenting with different grinds and profiles on my gouges. It also started me sharpening by hand. Well, for the last week and a half, and about 60 bowls, I have been sharpening my gouges on a flat tool rest (Veritas), with no jig. This is all of my bowl gouges, both swept back, and standard grind. I use a couple of wedges (about 5 inch by 3 inch, 1/2 to 1 inch high by the grinder wheel, and flush on the away side) with a wood bar on the bottom to go in the slot on the tool rest, to get the desired angle. This is proving to be amazingly simple, and considerably faster than putting each gouge in a jig. I may never use a jig again. You control how much of a wing you get by how far you roll the gouge to the side. You can set any angle simply.

robo hippy
:D:D:D
I've often wondered if sharpening freehand would be easier, but I wonder because I've never sharpened using a jig. Not because I'm an expert like the Battys but because I leaned to sharpen freehand from the beginning before I knew jigs were available. And then I've been too cheap to buy one of the sharpening systems since. But from looking at the gigs and reading the countless threads on sharpening it just seemed like a lot of trouble for something you can do in 15 seconds freehand.

[Reed Gray]

The standard angle is 45 degree bevel, and 45 degree sweep. This is a good utility sweep angle and bevel, but I use more angles, and prefer a bit more sweep. Once you get the hang of it, it is very easy.

robo hippy

[Reed Gray]

When I first started sharpening, I did try to match the grinds totally free hand, where I put my fingers on the grinder tool rest, and then tried to grind. This was difficult, but I could see that with a fair amount of practice, it could be done. The hardest thing to do correctly was to match the bevel angle. With a tool rest plate at the proper angle, it really is simple.

robo hippy

[Joshua Dinerstein]

robo hippy:

So is the video from Mike Mahoney demonstrating his sharpening technique the same batty technique you have been talking about?

I was trying to follow just from the explanation but having now watching that video I understand what he was trying to do. I am just curious if it is what you were describing?

(I am an extremely visual learner, so I kind of have to see it, but once I do things often make sense to me.)

Thanks,
Joshua

[Reed Gray]

Joshua,
Yes, Mike and Stewart's sharpening methods are the same. I understand about the visual learning thing; see it, and do it hands on learning is the best. Stewart does stand to one side, the left I think, and rolls the gouge from one wing to the nose, and then through to the other wing. I do more like Mike, and roll from the wing on one side to the nose, and then from the other wing back to the nose. Same idea, just different ways to do it. This is really a simple way to sharpen gouges, and you don't need all the jigs, no matter which grind you prefer.

robo hippy

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Yes, Mike and Stewart's sharpening methods are the same. I understand about the visual learning thing; see it, and do it hands on learning is the best.
Great! Thanks for the follow up reply. I am going to get my wolverine platform setup and give it a whirl. I got 2 new BB/PSI bowl gouges right before Christmas. They were something of a gift. I wanted to put a traditional flat grind on one and a 45deg on the other. With all of them to practice on before I get Thompson gouge I hope to be able to figure it all out.

Joshua

[Roland Martin]

Thanks a bunch, Reed, and all who contributed to this thread. I'm new to turning and am trying to absorb as much as possible before I go nuts spending a bunch of money for nothing. I've 95% convinced myself that I was going to purchase a Wolverine system for all my grinding, that is, until I hit this thread. I've been reading a lot of posts in this forum lately and decided I should register today, & glad I did. I've got some fairly low quality gouges that I got at no cost, and now plan to practice grinding with these before I buy any attachments.

Thanks guys!

[JerHall]

Reed,

It seems to me that you are using the previous bevel on the sweeps as an index to maintain the included angle between the inside of the flute and the bevel on the sweep. My question is how do you get the proper included angle in the first place?

It seems to me it is totally dependent on how much you roll the tool as you go left and right. And that is not exactly repeatable without a great eye, or without a jig. Kirk De Heer suggests that a 23 degree leg angle on the jig is what gives you a fairly consistent included angle. This works in my experience, and is dead repeatable, with typically only one light pass. I have done it as Mahoney does, and the included angle on the sweeps migrates to a more acute angle over time. Am I missing something? I do use it when I am at someones shop or at a demo and want to sharpen, but when I get home I usually have to restore the geometry with some extra grinding. I don't see much if any difference in time for the same standard of grind. Seconds different at most and a lot less metal removal and heat buildup. I too was excited about this technique, but have returned to the jig.

Would really appreciate your perspective on this.