Best BS for basement shop

[Mark Neidinger]

I have a very difficult stairway to manage. I'm really not sure what saw will fit down the steps, but size is an important factor.

My requirements are possibly impossible:
1) I hate using a table saw. It scares me. I use board buddies and push sticks, but I still hate using it. I'd like to reduce my use of it.
2) It needs to fit down the steps, which are normal width, but with pretty short ceilings and a landing halfway down.

I'd like a 17"/18" so that I can better minimize my use of a table saw, but none of these seem to be able to be taken apart, except for the table. This might be enough to get it down the steps if it is thin. Maybe I need to experiment by building a box equal to the size of the saw. I would be considering the Grizz G0513x2 or the Rikon 18" (which will be going on sale in February for $999 according to local WC).

The G0457 and Rikon 14" seem to be able to be disassembled, but I'm not sure if they could minimize my use of a table saw. Also, why does the G0457 cost almost as much as the G0513x2? That would sting a bit.

So, what to do?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have a General International 17" band saw in my basement.

I removed the two cast iron wheels, the table and motor and doors, then took the frame down the stairs.

Regards, Rod.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I understand your concerns, and don't really offer anything other than concurrence to what Rod suggested about tearing the machine down as much as possible.

I have a basement shop, and getting machinery into it is the biggest reason why I haven't upgraded any of my equipment in 20 years. Actually, I have twice the problem now: removing the old and installing the new.

Most importantly, be safe.

-Jeff :)

[Pat Germain]

I have the G0513X2. It's in my garage shop. But I'm pretty sure I could slide it down my basement steps if I had to. If there is a problem area it would be the base. I don't know if that can be detached or if it's welded on. It's not that wide. I can look at it when I get home, if you like. I could also measure any point on the saw and post those measurements.

Although the saw is tall, it came in a crate which really was not very big otherwise. I'm thinking you could slide the whole crate down your basement steps thus making sure the saw was well-protected during the process. Shoot, it would probably see more abuse during shipping than it would being slid into the basement. And the crate would be easier to balance than the saw by itself.

In your situation, the shipping crate might be a very good reason for ordering a Grizzly saw.

[Zach England]

Depends on how high your ceilings are. In my 1920 bungalow the basement ceiling is about 6 1/2 feet high and my grizzly 14 inch barely fits. I'd love to get the riser block kit, but I'd have to project the top wheel up between the joists and I am not sure I like that idea. I think at some point I will build a different base for it to drop it down a little bit.

[Zach England]

I would add that when getting machinery into a basement I have always had to do it one part at a time. You should have seen the cabinet saw going down there. I completely disassembled it and it still broke the door jamb. Were people smaller 90 years ago?

[Mark Neidinger]

My house was built in 1920. The basement ceilings aren't that low, just the stairwell ceiling.

I do believe people were small 90 years ago.


I would add that when getting machinery into a basement I have always had to do it one part at a time. You should have seen the cabinet saw going down there. I completely disassembled it and it still broke the door jamb. Were people smaller 90 years ago?

[Prashun Patel]

If you really have a height issue, then you might consider getting a 14" with a riser block. Most 14" saws disassemble from their stands.

I was able to two-man my Grizzly G0555 down the steps to my basement pretty easily.

The G0555X is a 'pretty decent' substitute for a real 17" saw - if ease of disassembly is a major factor. I'd get the riser block with it, though.

[Pat Germain]

I do believe people were small 90 years ago.

Pardon the OT post but...

That's a charlie! Reminds me of when I served aboard a battleship while I was in the Navy. I'm 5' 7" exactly and I just barely fit through hatches and doors and beneath giant steel beams on that ship. Almost everyone onboard had to constantly duck to move around. The ship was designed and built during WWII when the average height of a sailor was in fact much shorter than today.

[Pat Germain]

I just remembered something possibly releveant. A couple of years ago I helped a friend pick up a used Unisaw. The seller had just received a $10,000 sliding table saw from Austria. I saw it and it was in his basement.

I asked the guy how he got the saw into the basement. He said he hired a "rigging company". He told me that's the only way to go for such things. Apparently, a moving company really isn't equipped for such a task. But the rigging company showed up with lots of gear, including lines and pulleys, and knew exactly what to do.

So, you might contact a rigging a company to make sure you're getting your new saw into your basement safely and completely intact. It could be well worth the extra expense. Especially when you consider the medical bills and pain associated with throwing out your back. ;)

[Mark Neidinger]

I'm just not sure that the G0555 would take over some of the table saw duties.


If you really have a height issue, then you might consider getting a 14" with a riser block. Most 14" saws disassemble from their stands.

I was able to two-man my Grizzly G0555 down the steps to my basement pretty easily.

The G0555X is a 'pretty decent' substitute for a real 17" saw - if ease of disassembly is a major factor. I'd get the riser block with it, though.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm just not sure that the G0555 would take over some of the table saw duties.

I was suggesting the G0555X which has a little more power - and only if disassembly ability trumps everything.

I agree, my G0555 is a poor substitute for a table saws on most days. Truth be told, I've had tensioning issues with it since day1. Each time I switch out the blade, I gotta reset the tension from ground 0. Major pain.

[Steve Walls]

I went with a Delta 14" with riser block in my basement. I've been happy with that. If you don't have one I suggest picking up a hand truck, with some decent wheels, not small hard rubber ones. These work great for getting heavy items down the stairs.

[Stephen Edwards]

What operations are you hoping to eliminate on the TS by using a BS? Some people use an add on table to increase the table size of their BS. Would this help you? If so, perhaps a 14" BS might work for you after all.

[Mark Neidinger]

I think just ripping. I use a circular saw and guide for breaking down sheet goods and have a compound miter saw for most cross cuts. I don't use the table saw to dado, I use an undersized plywood router bit.

Certainly I am looking for a large stable table.


What operations are you hoping to eliminate on the TS by using a BS? Some people use an add on table to increase the table size of their BS. Would this help you? If so, perhaps a 14" BS might work for you after all.

[Prashun Patel]

Another option is a track saw or a guided rail for your circ saw.

[Van Huskey]

If you do want to move away from the table saw and have issues getting any of the larger machines into the basement you may want to look at a REALLY good 14" BS instead of the more standard fair. My choice would be getting a Laguna (or other top machine), the trick with ripping on a BS is power. You don't want to be standing in front of the saw all day to make one long heavy rip 3hp is a blessing then. I often think it is funny how BS motor power increses with the throat size instead of the resaw height. I see BS with 3/4 HP motors and 12 inch resaw stats now seriously unless it is foam are you really gonna resaw that 11 inch hunk of walnut with 3/4hp. (Here is where someone will post that all it takes is some time and a soft hand, sure 2 days and a power feeder set to 8mm a minute)


Plus I am curious what TS scares you, I often find people fear of a TS is not the type of machine just the one thye have and it is usually because they can't be 100% sure it is gong to stay in one place or one piece. I ask this since getting a substantial TS in your basemant would have been every hard.

[Mark Neidinger]

You are right that it is not a substantial tablesaw (Bosch 4000), but I have used many saws, including cabinet saws, and don't want to use them if I don't have to. I am not willing to spend time or money buying a great machine that I absolutely hate using.


If you do want to move away from the table saw and have issues getting any of the larger machines into the basement you may want to look at a REALLY good 14" BS instead of the more standard fair. My choice would be getting a Laguna (or other top machine), the trick with ripping on a BS is power. You don't want to be standing in front of the saw all day to make one long heavy rip 3hp is a blessing then. I often think it is funny how BS motor power increses with the throat size instead of the resaw height. I see BS with 3/4 HP motors and 12 inch resaw stats now seriously unless it is foam are you really gonna resaw that 11 inch hunk of walnut with 3/4hp. (Here is where someone will post that all it takes is some time and a soft hand, sure 2 days and a power feeder set to 8mm a minute)


Plus I am curious what TS scares you, I often find people fear of a TS is not the type of machine just the one thye have and it is usually because they can't be 100% sure it is gong to stay in one place or one piece. I ask this since getting a substantial TS in your basemant would have been every hard.

[Van Huskey]

You are right that it is not a substantial tablesaw (Bosch 4000), but I have used many saws, including cabinet saws, and don't want to use them if I don't have to. I am not willing to spend time or money buying a great machine that I absolutely hate using.


Easy enough then, if you can't get a bigger saw get a SERIOUS 14" BS, most of the 14" BSs are not built nor bought to replace a TS if you are going down this road you need to look upmarket for a BS.

[Stephen Edwards]

If you already have a circular saw and guide for breaking down the sheet goods, and if you want to use the BS primarily for ripping, I don't see why a really nice 14" BS wouldn't do the trick for you, especially if your basement ceiling height is an issue. Yes, you may need to build an add on table to get the table size that you want/need. I suppose you'd need to consider the throat size, too for ripping sheet goods.

If you're talking about using the BS mostly to rip boards 1-3 inches thick the G0555X will certainly do that for you with no problem. Though it isn't as fast nor will it give you as smooth a cut as on a TS with a good blade, it still ain't gonna be an all day job to rip boards on a powerful 14" BS.

I wouldn't want to give up my TS but, if it died on me today, ripping lumber on my BS wouldn't slow me down much. It would add the extra step of having to joint both edges of every board. I'd really miss it for ripping sheet goods. However, I understand and appreciate that we're all different.

Good luck with your decision.



I think just ripping. I use a circular saw and guide for breaking down sheet goods and have a compound miter saw for most cross cuts. I don't use the table saw to dado, I use an undersized plywood router bit.

Certainly I am looking for a large stable table.

[Pete Bradley]

I've got a 600lb+ old iron 20" Delta in my basement. I use it much more than my Unisaw. It went down in pieces. I suggest you go big, you'll quickly forget how hard it was to get down there. Take the table and motor off, and find a couple of friends to help. Be careful, w/o the motor they get very topheavy.

[Mark Neidinger]

I am fine with disassembly ... but can the G0513x2 or the Rikon 10-340 frame be disassembled? It looks like it is all one piece.


I've got a 600lb+ old iron 20" Delta in my basement. I use it much more than my Unisaw. It went down in pieces. I suggest you go big, you'll quickly forget how hard it was to get down there. Take the table and motor off, and find a couple of friends to help. Be careful, w/o the motor they get very topheavy.

[Jerome Hanby]

Same here with an old 14" Delta/Rockwell. I wouldn't like carrying that hunk of cast iron down the steps, but I could do it. The base and moptor would be easy.


If you really have a height issue, then you might consider getting a 14" with a riser block. Most 14" saws disassemble from their stands.

I was able to two-man my Grizzly G0555 down the steps to my basement pretty easily.

The G0555X is a 'pretty decent' substitute for a real 17" saw - if ease of disassembly is a major factor. I'd get the riser block with it, though.

[Pete Bradley]

"pieces" is relative. The biggest part of mine was the cabinet which stands about 6 1/2" tall with a substantially bigger footprint than the Griz. The goal is to get weight to something that's manageable, which the full weight was not. It still wasn't easy but now it's there it's easy to forget how difficult the move was. :-)

Pete

[Dave Avery]

I got the 513X2 into my basement with only my wife's help...... it was easy compared to the Sawstop PCS and the Jet JJP-12 jointer/planer. No disassembly required.....

[Gary Muto]

I passed on the G0513X2 in favor of the Rikon 10-325 since I knew I could get the box into my basement easily and that I'll likely be moving sooner or later. I would have likely gotten the Grizz over the 18" Rikon though but I also considered the Jet 18". About 6 months ago I came across a Jet 16" that is just the right size for most basement shops IMO. It's like their 18" model but shorter and the base has an 8-10" wide section that comes apart making the saw fairly narrow. I think the Jet 16" is beefier than the Rikon 18" but I have not seen Grizz to compare it in person.

[Hugh Jardon]

1) I hate using a table saw. It scares me. I use board buddies and push sticks, but I still hate using it. I'd like to reduce my use of it.

Even with the best BS in the world, this problem is not going to go away, you'll just do things differently. However, some cuts simply can't be made on a BS that can with a TS, and vice versa.

Whether or not the BS is replaced, surely it is worth conquering the TS?

15 years ago, I had a terrible flight, and vowed I would never set foot on a plane again. 10 years ago, my wife booked a vacation that involved crossing the Atlantic. I sat there for 9 hours with white knuckles on the arm rest. Nothing happened, it was uneventful. I had flown again. If the plane had had a problem, and creamed into the Atlantic, I would have died a horrible death. But it didn't, and I didn't. Now, I have a job that means I fly a lot, I've been on the top airline tier for the last 8 years. I got back on a plane all those years ago and haven't looked back.

Whatever aspect of the TS scares you, I would try and address that. Being scared of tools has no place in the workshop. Respect them, yes, most of them will have your arm off in a picosecond, but please don't be scared.

[Mark Neidinger]

I'm not about to get rid of it. I just want to use it less. I'm not scared of it when I use it, I'm more scared of it generally. If it were scary using it for a cut, I would not make that cut.

I do a lot of work with long thin pieces, 1/4 x 3/16 x several feet. These cuts are not easy to do and I hate wasting so much wood with the planer. I need a bandsaw anyway and if I can get one that will reduce my use of the table saw, then all the better.

I think I will end up going with the 513x2. The Laguna's are a bit out of the range that I hoped to spend. As for ceiling basement height, I'v got about 7' 6". It's just the stairs that I'm worried about.


Even with the best BS in the world, this problem is not going to go away, you'll just do things differently. However, some cuts simply can't be made on a BS that can with a TS, and vice versa.

Whether or not the BS is replaced, surely it is worth conquering the TS?

15 years ago, I had a terrible flight, and vowed I would never set foot on a plane again. 10 years ago, my wife booked a vacation that involved crossing the Atlantic. I sat there for 9 hours with white knuckles on the arm rest. Nothing happened, it was uneventful. I had flown again. If the plane had had a problem, and creamed into the Atlantic, I would have died a horrible death. But it didn't, and I didn't. Now, I have a job that means I fly a lot, I've been on the top airline tier for the last 8 years. I got back on a plane all those years ago and haven't looked back.

Whatever aspect of the TS scares you, I would try and address that. Being scared of tools has no place in the workshop. Respect them, yes, most of them will have your arm off in a picosecond, but please don't be scared.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I have a 16" Walker Turner saw. I took it apart to move it (mostly for the weight, it weighs about 600 pounds) - it is built like the big classic C frame saws that are 24" +, just in miniature. Even the dust doors are cast iron. Anyway, I took off the table, took the frame off the base, and the top wheel assembly off the guide rods. It broke it down into easily managed pieces. I had to realign it when I put it together, but it was worth the effort. The Walker Turner saw also isn't all that tall- on the custom rolling stand I built for it the saw is only 6'4" tall and the table height is reasonable.

If you want a bigger than 14" saw (which it sounds like you do), one of the old cast iron saws that was built before the welded steel frame construction might actually be easier for you to move and install.

[Paul Johnstone]

I am fine with disassembly ... but can the G0513x2 or the Rikon 10-340 frame be disassembled? It looks like it is all one piece.

I have the Rikon 18".. I can look for you. If I forget to reply, please PM me.

[Ole Anderson]

I know my stress level using the TS goes WAY down when I am able to leave the splitter/blade guard on it. And I remember now to stand off to the left of the blade.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/CJ7ole/Img_0854.jpg

[Mark Neidinger]

I am leaning slightly toward the grizzly since the overall height of the Griz is 3" shorter than the Rikon. Maybe I should just get the 14" and not worry about it.


I have the Rikon 18".. I can look for you. If I forget to reply, please PM me.

[Mark Neidinger]

I had a much smaller kickback wound than that one time. It was an important lesson learned.


I know my stress level using the TS goes WAY down when I am able to leave the splitter/blade guard on it. And I remember now to stand off to the left of the blade.

[Cameron Reddy]

Mark,

Did you see my post about the actual heights of the Grizz saws?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=129877

Cameron Reddy

[Michael Schwartz]

I own the Grizzly ultimate 14" with riser block and other than the blade tensioning lever/mechanism which is cheap I have been pleased with it.

A note on the grizzly tensioning setup, this is something you really need to read the manual to get setup and adjusted properly.

[Mark Neidinger]

Yes. I did see that. Thank you for posting that and also confirming what so many others have said about grizzly customer service.

I also went to all of the product manuals in question to find out their heights and whether or not they could be disassembled. The grizzly manual shows 73" and the rikon manual shows 76". Neither saw seems to be disassembled in a way that would matter, except to remove the heavier parts like wheels, tables and motors.


Mark,

Did you see my post about the actual heights of the Grizz saws?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=129877

Cameron Reddy

[Stephen Edwards]

I am leaning slightly toward the grizzly since the overall height of the Griz is 3" shorter than the Rikon. Maybe I should just get the 14" and not worry about it.

The G0555X comes in two boxes. Getting it down the stairs wouldn't be a problem at all.

It has 13 1/2" capacity to the left of the blade vs. 16 1/4 on the 16 1/4" on the G0513X2.

If you're gonna use it mostly for ripping, as you stated in a previous post, the 555X should serve you well, especially if get the riser block. Remember, it comes with the resaw fence, which in my opinion and experience is a great fence. If you're leaning toward a Grizzly 14" BS, this is a good choice.



A note on the grizzly tensioning setup, this is something you really need to read the manual to get setup and adjusted properly. Ditto. If you follow the instructions carefully it's not a big deal. If you don't follow the instructions, you'll get frustrated!

[John Lannon]

I have a very difficult stairway to manage. I'm really not sure what saw will fit down the steps, but size is an important factor.

My requirements are possibly impossible:
1) I hate using a table saw. It scares me. I use board buddies and push sticks, but I still hate using it. I'd like to reduce my use of it.
2) It needs to fit down the steps, which are normal width, but with pretty short ceilings and a landing halfway down.

I'd like a 17"/18" so that I can better minimize my use of a table saw, but none of these seem to be able to be taken apart, except for the table. This might be enough to get it down the steps if it is thin. Maybe I need to experiment by building a box equal to the size of the saw. I would be considering the Grizz G0513x2 or the Rikon 18" (which will be going on sale in February for $999 according to local WC).

The G0457 and Rikon 14" seem to be able to be disassembled, but I'm not sure if they could minimize my use of a table saw. Also, why does the G0457 cost almost as much as the G0513x2? That would sting a bit.

So, what to do?


I am not trying to sound like a smart aleck. but I am wondering if you have been reading too many table saw mishap stories. The table saw is a very safe tool if you handle it safely and with confidence.

I have found that the best 14" bandsaw doesnt even come close to the accuracy of a table saw.

In my honest opinion, you might be better off taking a table saw class to help build your confidence. I had a kick back myself a couple years ago, and it was due to my own stupidity. It took a quite a few rip cuts to get that warm fuzzy feeling back. You will lose a valuable tool if you give up on it.

[kenneth kayser]

My local Woodcraft offers to deliver anything into my basement for no charge. Why not have your Woodcraft look at your stairway and advise you if the Rikon will fit and, then let them worry about getting it down.

[Dan Forman]

I got my MiniMax MM16 down the basement stairs on an appliance dolly, didn't remove anything. My door to the basement is 29" wide, the max height of something going down the stairs is 50", the basement floor to ceiling joist is 82", and the bandsaw is 74" high. It was actually the easiest thing to get down there of the major tools, because of the basically long, thin shape, despite the 500 pound weight. It took three people. Strapped it to the dolly with the spine to the dolly, sent it down base first. Make sure you have to room to tip it back upright, as the arc will be greater than the height standing up. You can actually do this between two ceiling joists if need be.

Dan

[Mark Neidinger]

Is this a typo? 50" height on the stairs? Do you crawl down there?


I got my MiniMax MM16 down the basement stairs on an appliance dolly, didn't remove anything. My door to the basement is 29" wide, the max height of something going down the stairs is 50", the basement floor to ceiling joist is 82", and the bandsaw is 74" high. It was actually the easiest thing to get down there of the major tools, because of the basically long, thin shape, despite the 500 pound weight. It took three people. Strapped it to the dolly with the spine to the dolly, sent it down base first. Make sure you have to room to tip it back upright, as the arc will be greater than the height standing up. You can actually do this between two ceiling joists if need be.

Dan

[Ole Anderson]

Don't get too confortable with the bandsaw, remember it is used by the butcher to cut meat, tendons and bone. There are cases of woodworkers with full amputations using the bandsaw. Think about it.

[gary butcher]

I had a whale of a time yesterday with my new BS, got a whole butt load done. I do a lot of smaller fiddly things and this saved so much time it's not even funny. Stuff that's too small to safely use on a TS and too much trouble with a router. Pretty awesome and accurate too once I finished adjusting it. I should have bought one years ago but was in the whole TS first mentality.

I was chopping wood, acrylic and ABS plastic in straight lines, curves and circles. Huge time saver and fun too. :D