I bought a shaper...sort of. Can you help?

[Nathan Conner]

I responded to a local Craigslist ad this weekend and finally went out this evening to pick up a Woodtek HS7 "Tilting Arbor Moulder" from a cabinet shop for a few hundred bucks. Good deal, I think, because it's a monster for my tiny shop. About 600 lbs, we guessed, and now it sits on the shop floor, looking great (thanks to the engine hoist to get it out of the trailer). (Attached is a pathetically blurry cell phone pic. Sorry)

It was purchased a long time ago by this shop with some plans in mind, I guess, and sat on its pallet for the last 18 years under a tarp. They wanted the floor space back, and I got a heck of a deal. It still had plastic and grease on it. It's never been wired (there was shipping plastic over the electrical box). All of the spindles and tools were still wrapped in their original wax paper, and it was still bolted to the original shipping pallet. So, honestly, it was new. At 5.5 HP, it's more than big enough for anything I can throw at it. Reversible...and tilting. WHY would you want to tilt the arbor? I don't get that.

The bad news - 1) It was made in 1992, so parts are going to be hard to find. They stopped selling that model somewhere around 8 years ago. 2) The manual says it only came in a 3-phase model. 3) Worst - it's missing the fence. They looked for it, but said they'd never seen anything like that with it, and guess it either never shipped with it or it just has been lost. :(

My plan is to use this as a souped-up router table - I have loads of 1/2 router bits, and I think (7k or 10k speeds) that they should be ok with this. It has a 1/2" collet I just mounted tonight, along with 3/4 and 1" spindles.

So, a few questions for those who know a little something about shapers -- I know this is "just an import", right? It looks semi-well finished, plastic handwheels, hammered metal, nicely ground and flat top. Did I just buy a well-known piece of junk? Or is it going to hold up alright?

Am I going to have any luck finding either an original or aftermarket adjustable fence for this? Is there any point in looking? Is this thing worth any time or money invested? I know I can slap a board and clamps on it and call it a fence, but do they sell (like Incra or someone) a shaper fence upgrade? Or should I keep my eye on the auction sites and see what I can find? I did email WW Supply - they sell these. Maybe they'll have some advice.

Lastly - the motor. All of this is relatively moot if this really is a 3-phase motor, since I only have single phase in the shop and don't know if I want to buy a phase converter to make it work for me. There's a sticker on the motor that says "220v" and there's a 4.4kw/5.5HP rating on the electrical box inside the base. The manual says it's only available in 3-phase, but I thought those were different voltages than 220 (208, 277/480?). Obviously, I know nothing about 3-phase stuff. The last thing I want is a fried motor or electrical fire in the shop. I haven't even opened the external panel - just curious if someone knows off the top of their head that 220 means 220, single phase, all the time?

[Brian Ross]

I have 220 volt 3 phase tools. If you are familiar with motor sizes look at the motor. A 5 hp 3 phase motor is considerably smaller than a 5 hp single phase motor

Brian

[Nathan Conner]

I have 220 volt 3 phase tools. If you are familiar with motor sizes look at the motor. A 5 hp 3 phase motor is considerably smaller than a 5 hp single phase motor

Well, it looks the right size to me. It's half-again larger than the 3HP motor in the PM2000, and has large cooling fins all around the casing. I know there's something about the...(sorry, I'm an idiot) external capacitors? Like you can count them to find out the difference? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

[johnny means]

220 volt 3 phase is actually achieved by using two normal 110 volt poles and adding a third "high" 220 volt phase. My shop is wired for 240 volt 3 phase and all we did was, literally, add another line from the third phase cable outside my door.

So yes, you probably have a 220 volt 3 phase machine there.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Does the motor have any capacitors strapped to the outside? Also, can you count how many individual conductors leave the motor (are there 2 or 3)?

[Brian Ross]

Nathan.. I don't think either one of us will make it as an electrician. None of my 3 ph motors have capacitors that are visible. If you take the cover off the motor where the power is fed there might be a label showing the number of line voltage connections. If it shows 3 lines the motor is 3 phase. Please do not take any of my info as gospel.

Brian

[Steve Clardy]

Tilting arbor. Handy for making more profiles, especially arched molding.

WoodTec is Woodworkers Supply house brand. They import them to their specs.

http://woodworker.com/

[Nathan Conner]

2) The manual says it only came in a 3-phase model.

Well. The manual and the seller both lied. :) I went to get some photos to answer some of your questions, and I find that if I use a flashlight and scrunch myself enough inside the base and use a mirror in the other hand, I can read that it's a Ling Tang motor - 3 HP, single phase, 220. There's a name plate at the top inside.

Thanks for the voltage help, guys. This part, at least, is done. Any recommendations about the fence? I love the utility of the Jet extruded aluminum one, but...for most applications, I'm guessing the cost of a fence would pay for a lot of homemade ones?

[John McClanahan]

3 phase motors don't use starting capacitors. If the motor has capacitors mounted on it, it is single phase.

John

[Nathan Conner]

THANK you, John. I don't feel like a complete idiot this go round, at least. I knew that had something to do with it?

Turns out it is a 220 single phase. The plate is nearly impossible to see, much less read, but I got it with a mirror and a headache.

[Steve Clardy]

Check with WWS.
They might have a fence laying around for it. ;)
They have been having some huge discounts on new machinery lately, trying to reduce inventory.

[Mike Cruz]

First thing you NEED to do is call Woodwookers Supply. I bought an old Woodtek 15" planer about 8 months ago off CL. Their tech people are great. They had ALL the parts to replace everything I needed. Give them the serial number (if you can find one) and they can tell you everyting you need to know about it. If you look at their catalogue, I think you will rethink the title of this post and GLOAT will be in there somewhere. I'm not saying that their stuff is GREAT quality, but it CERTAINLY ain't cheap. Their prices are equal to or more expensive than Grizzly. Their quality is better than HF. Their CS is outstanding. Call them, really...

[Jeff Duncan]

Adjustable fences can be very handy, some guys get by with plywood fences and do fine. others use the adjustable fences all the time, depends on the type of work you'll be doing. Then of course you could make your own adjustable with a little ingenuity.
Basically any aftermarket or replacement fence will work You'll likely just need to drill and tap 2 holes in the top. Personally I think the Delta extruded aluminum fence is a nicely made unit, not sure what they run, but if you find a need for a good fence may be worth it. Stay away from the Powermatic fences, at least the style on the older 26-27 models, really not very good IMHO.
good luck,
JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

That model had a nice long run, so I don't think that parts will be much of an issue. Check eBay for shaper fences. Sometimes there are nice ones for sale/auction. Definitely a gloat.

[Jeff Monson]

Saw this on my local CL list, dont know if its a good deal or not but its a new shaper fence.

http://fargo.craigslist.org/tls/1544727504.html

[Jim Rimmer]

Don't know much about shapers and shaper fences but I would think you could mount a fence on it. I had mounted a Delta T2 on my Craftsman TS (before the motor burned up) and you could probably mount one on this shaper with a little modification. I'm in the process of trying to convert my old TS table into a router table. If I am not successful, I will have a T2 for sale.

[Dave Cav]

You might try this fence.
http://www.accuramachinetools.com/new-accura-asfa003-shaper-fence-assem.html

It's sold on Ebay and a few other places. Sold as a sort of universal replacement shaper fence. I am considering one to replace the stock 80s vintage fence on my Delta shaper. I would like to talk to someone that does have one, though.

If you just use your shaper as a "souped up router table" you are really wasting the potential of your machine. A shaper can do a LOT of stuff better than a router table, but it has a VERY steep learning curve. You might consider getting a couple of books on shaper operation and giving it a try with regular shaper cutters. A good way to get a lot of profiles relatively cheap is with one of these:
http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5502-profile-pro-multi-shaper-starter-sets.aspx

CMT also makes a set just like it and their cutters are interchangable. The cutters are a lot cheaper than carbide shaper cutters and should be fine for a hobby shop. They can also be resharpened.

[Nathan Conner]

Hey, Dave. Great info. Both of those look like good starters, and not too much of an investment. I have a book ready to order from Amazon, as soon as I get the machine running.

So, I wired it up and plugged it in. I made sure everything was free and moving and fired it up. I immediately saw that I was letting the smoke out of the belt. Oops. A little machine oil and some reefing on the spindle, and it finally let go and was REALLY free and moving. When I fired it back up, it hummed right along. Fast, quiet, really seemed to be moving perfectly.

When I went to shut it down after about 20 seconds, however, I think I made a mistake. I had it running with the large main nut finger tight on the spindle threads. No spindle in it. As it was spinning down, (about 1/3 speed, or 2000 RPMs) what I think happened was that bolt caught and snugged itself tight, because there was a *CLUNK* and the spindle carrier immediately stopped - like a brake had been engaged.

Now...nothing. It won't start again. I can't get that bolt off to save my life. I tried some wrenching oil, tapping on the monstrous cylindrical wrench with a hammer, and then a breaker bar, which immediately tried to snap off the wrench's T-handle.

Is that what happened? Did this guy just snug itself to a halt? The motor still wants to run, but the spindle won't turn and that nut is down TIGHT. I'm guessing an air hammer or heat or something will get it loose, but it will take some serious work.

[Chip Lindley]

Nathan, trying to follow the narrative of your experience, I am surmizing you were running the machine without a spindle in the bearing cartridge. The big socket-head bolt that comes up from the bottom of the cartridge, locked and froze solid. If memory serves, the bolt is left-hand threaded. The spindle shaft will not turn probably because the locking knob stud became engaged in the shaft. Look or feel inside the access door, on the spindle housing, for a round, knurled knob that pulls out under spring pressure. Pulling out and 1/2 twist will Unlock so the pulley shaft will turn freely. That lock knob is engaged to lock the shaft for changing cutters OR changing to different size spindles.

I have a similar '90's Woodtek 3hp shaper which is a very nice machine. Even smoother than my old Powermatic 26. You got a nice Tilting Spindle Gloat there! And hopefully still undamaged after your mishap. GOOD Luck!

[Nathan Conner]

Hey, that is, funny enough, EXACTLY what I saw in there before I started it up. Luckily, I read all 5 pages of the manual front to back before I fired it up. (Don't take away my man-card, I rarely read manuals...promise!)

So, yeah, the locking stud is marked by a large bright red handle, and I was careful about pulling it out, turning it 90, and seeing it unlock, then releasing it a few times just to make sure I had the hang of it. I was able to get it to lock in just fine and unlock before I ever powered it on.

What I noticed, though, is that when I locked it, and tightened down the big spindle nut, that I couldn't UNlock it. The thing wouldn't budge (pull out in order to turn) after using the wrench to torque down that nut. So, I backed the nut off enough that I could unlock it (which was about finger tight) before I fired it up the first time. It was certainly unlocked while running, and is now still free to turn, lock, unlock, even with the spindle frozen where it is.

I was fairly careful with the threading, too. Pretty sure this one was right-hand threaded, but when I was tapping on the wrench with the hammer, I did try backwards a few times, just in case I was wrong - no luck with that, either.

Great advice though. Thank you! I'll go give it another go later this morning and see if I can't break it loose. I'll keep my fingers crossed that I didn't damage it somehow. :( And I'll try again with a call to WWS to see if they have any tech support on the machine or any info on a fence so I don't have to re-tap the top for a new fence configuration. Yesterday's phone calls to them went unanswered.

[Rick DiNardo]

Nathan,
Check to see if the spindle lock (used to lock the spindle when loosening and tightening the nut) engaged while the motor was running.

[Nathan Conner]

Hey, Rick. Welcome to the creek!

And yeah, that was the first thing I checked. It still moves freely, doesn't seem to be locked. I replied in another post a bit earlier - it's not locked now, but when I had cranked the nut down before, I couldn't ever UNlock it until I loosened the nut up a bit. So, I don't know what's up with it.

Nice machine when it ran. Smooth and quiet. Now, I have to say, it IS quieter...

[Chip Lindley]

Nathan, I'm thinking the end of the locking stud broke off and is wedged in the slot or hole in the shaft. The rest of the lock knob operates as usual. Try removing the locking knob to see if the end is broken off. IF NOT Great! If so, disassembly of the spindle will follow to see what gives (or doesn't give) inside the housing.

I have never had to disassemble my Woodtek for bearings, etc., so I can't help you there. If your manual has exploded drawings of the shaper, you can see where every part is, and how how they fit together. Probably best attacked by turning the shaper upside down on plywood or cardboard to save the CI top. Knee pads are not optional

Meanwhile, hopefully WWS will have some information for you. Keep after them! Good Luck again!