Tool for removing old poly finish and leveling tabletop?

[Victor Robinson]

I've been building my first workbench (finally!). For the top I'm going to use the top off an old butcherblock dining room table from Ikea left over from our college days. At some point, we had decided to stain/finish the thing with ugly Minwax stain/poly combo brushed on. Just for the record, this was before I knew ANYTHING about finishing, woodworking, etc. :cool:

So now I'd like to repurpose this tabletop and it's certainly better than MDF for my bench. I've been trying to get the old finish off. I've tried my handplanes, but it's slow and occasionally gouges the surface (I have cheap planes and though sharpened, they've got other issues). The ROS with 60 grit is fairly ineffective as you might guess.

I'm thinking of just heading to the borg and picking up a belt sander or power planer. Any recs? Cheaper alternatives? Other methods? Should I even bother with buying 40grit (much coarser than anything I ever use) on the ROS?

I should probably just get a good card scraper...

[Eric Gustafson]

I've been building my first workbench (finally!). For the top I'm going to use the top off an old butcherblock dining room table from Ikea left over from our college days. At some point, we had decided to stain/finish the thing with ugly Minwax stain/poly combo brushed on. Just for the record, this was before I knew ANYTHING about finishing, woodworking, etc. :cool:

So now I'd like to repurpose this tabletop and it's certainly better than MDF for my bench. I've been trying to get the old finish off. I've tried my handplanes, but it's slow and occasionally gouges the surface (I have cheap planes and though sharpened, they've got other issues). The ROS with 60 grit is fairly ineffective as you might guess.

I'm thinking of just heading to the borg and picking up a belt sander or power planer. Any recs? Cheaper alternatives? Other methods? Should I even bother with buying 40grit (much coarser than anything I ever use) on the ROS?

I should probably just get a good card scraper...

Are you against using stripper to get the poly off then sanding?

[Victor Robinson]

Are you against using stripper to get the poly off then sanding?

Hey Eric,
Yeah I'd rather not go the stripper route if I can avoid it - my workspace isn't well-ventilated (yay city-living!). Plus now I have to remove a fair amount of material anyways thanks to the gouges I made with my crappy planes.

[ken gibbs]

I've been building my first workbench (finally!). For the top I'm going to use the top off an old butcherblock dining room table from Ikea left over from our college days. At some point, we had decided to stain/finish the thing with ugly Minwax stain/poly combo brushed on. Just for the record, this was before I knew ANYTHING about finishing, woodworking, etc. :cool:

So now I'd like to repurpose this tabletop and it's certainly better than MDF for my bench. I've been trying to get the old finish off. I've tried my handplanes, but it's slow and occasionally gouges the surface (I have cheap planes and though sharpened, they've got other issues). The ROS with 60 grit is fairly ineffective as you might guess.

I'm thinking of just heading to the borg and picking up a belt sander or power planer. Any recs? Cheaper alternatives? Other methods? Should I even bother with buying 40grit (much coarser than anything I ever use) on the ROS?

I should probably just get a good card scraper...


I use a hand held Dewalt power planer, 60 grit belt sander, and sand up through the grits. I have tried several strippers and none have worked so far on Urethane. It took about eight hours to strip, sand and stain my round 42" table top that was deeply gouged likely caused by kids cutting through the finish to the wood with stake knives. I think I took off about 3/16" to get all of the gouges and cuts out of the wood. I am up to eight coats of new urethane after staining. It is not a project that you can make money off of because I constantly think that more coats followed by steel wool will make it look better. So I keep adding layers and using steel wool between coats. I expect that another ten layers will make this table look like a heritage item.

[Victor Robinson]

I use a hand held Dewalt power planer, 60 grit belt sander, and sand up through the grits. I have tried several strippers and none have worked so far on Urethane. It took about eight hours to strip, sand and stain my round 42" table top that was deeply gouged likely caused by kids cutting through the finish to the wood with stake knives. I think I took off about 3/16" to get all of the gouges and cuts out of the wood. I am up to eight coats of new urethane after staining. It is not a project that you can make money off of because I constantly think that more coats followed by steel wool will make it look better. So I keep adding layers and using steel wool between coats. I expect that another ten layers will make this table look like a heritage item.

Ken,
You used both a planer and belt sander? Think there's anyway I can get away with just one of those. I already have a ROS. I was hoping I could make it a quickie cheapie tool purchase...

[Simon Dupay]

I get a belt sander like a PC 4x24 and sand it off, much easier then a power planer to use. Don't get a cheap one they won't have enough power.

[Dan Forman]

Card scraper should work, and be the cheapest. Belt sanders can do some damage in a hurry if you aren't used to working with them. An alternative would be something like this, with a circular motion as well as ROS. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=bosch+sanders&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=15200282378349327082&ei=gvhLS722Fof-sgOAq_WuCw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBoQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers

I suspect that this coupled with 60 grit would get the job done pretty quickly, then go back to your ROS to go through the rest of the grits. The more aggressive mode can be pretty hard to control, but it's good for rough work.

Dan

[Mike Cruz]

Rather than buying a planer or belt sander, you could go to your local Borg (or any tool rental store) and rent a floor sander. Start with a really rough grit...24 or 36, and work up to 80 or 100. Do the rest with your ROS.

If you have never used a floor sander, there are 3 kinds that you can get (at least one of my local Borgs has 3 different kinds...). The first is a large belt sander. If you have never used one, I don't reccommend trying this one. It can be very aggressive, difficult to handle, and you will likely not end up with anything near flat. The second type is a large ROS pad. Not a bad choice, but also not my favorite. The third, my favorite, is one that uses 4 ROS's. Either of these (choice 2 or 3) should work well. Of course, you do need to vent your shop and wear a mask if you are going to sand the poly off...really...

You should be able to rent the sander and buy the sanding discs for about $60.

[Jason White]

Paste stripper (methyl chloride).

Open all the windows and wear a respirator and gloves. Scrape it off with a wide putty knife. Works very fast.

Jason



I've been building my first workbench (finally!). For the top I'm going to use the top off an old butcherblock dining room table from Ikea left over from our college days. At some point, we had decided to stain/finish the thing with ugly Minwax stain/poly combo brushed on. Just for the record, this was before I knew ANYTHING about finishing, woodworking, etc. :cool:

So now I'd like to repurpose this tabletop and it's certainly better than MDF for my bench. I've been trying to get the old finish off. I've tried my handplanes, but it's slow and occasionally gouges the surface (I have cheap planes and though sharpened, they've got other issues). The ROS with 60 grit is fairly ineffective as you might guess.

I'm thinking of just heading to the borg and picking up a belt sander or power planer. Any recs? Cheaper alternatives? Other methods? Should I even bother with buying 40grit (much coarser than anything I ever use) on the ROS?

I should probably just get a good card scraper...

[Jason White]

Another vote for the "U-Sand" floor sanding machine (the one with 4 ROS pads)! Will definitely take the poly off. I've used it before and it works great if you don't need serious material removal. They rent them at Home Depot.

Maybe start with 50 or 80 grit to see if its cuts through the poly easily (I'd avoid the 24 or 36 grit unless you have gouges you want to remove). You're less likely to screw up the wood with this type of floor sander than with the old style "belt" or "drum" floor sander.

Another way to go -- if you know a friend with a Festool ROTEX sander, just borrow it and use some 40-grit "Cristal" or "Saphir" paper. Will cut through the poly like butter.

Jason


Rather than buying a planer or belt sander, you could go to your local Borg (or any tool rental store) and rent a floor sander. Start with a really rough grit...24 or 36, and work up to 80 or 100. Do the rest with your ROS.

If you have never used a floor sander, there are 3 kinds that you can get (at least one of my local Borgs has 3 different kinds...). The first is a large belt sander. If you have never used one, I don't reccommend trying this one. It can be very aggressive, difficult to handle, and you will likely not end up with anything near flat. The second type is a large ROS pad. Not a bad choice, but also not my favorite. The third, my favorite, is one that uses 4 ROS's. Either of these (choice 2 or 3) should work well. Of course, you do need to vent your shop and wear a mask if you are going to sand the poly off...really...

You should be able to rent the sander and buy the sanding discs for about $60.

[John Piwaron]

I had to do that not so long ago.

I used a heat gun and a wide blade putty knife to get the bulk of the varnish off then followed with 120grit on a ROS and then 220. It worked just fine without a lot of smell from chemical strippers.

FWIW, I do like chemical strippers, but they're not always necessary.

One other thing - I don't know that I'd be too worried about those gouges you speak of. Even if you get a beautiful pristine surface on that top, it won't be so long and it'll have various knicks, gouges and scrapes from whatever work you do on it. My own bench was a beautiful work of art when I finished it. After years of use it doesn't look that way anymore. But it's still great.

[Pat Germain]

How wide is the bench top? If it's not too wide for a lunchbox planer, that's the route I would take. You're going to use a planer for future woodworking anyway, right?

If it's in your budget, I recommend buying something like the RIDGID planer. The advantage here is the blades on a lunchbox planer are disposable. If they get gunked up and chipped from the benchtop it's no big deal. So, run your benchtop through the planer as many times as it takes, shaving off just a little at a time, until the surface is as you like it. Then remove the blades, throw them away and install a new set.

After this procedure, you'll have a very nice, flat benchtop with minimal effort and a nice, new planer with new blades.

[Ellen Benkin]

I'd find a lumberyard of some kind and pay hem to run it through their planer a couple of times. Spend your time planing the building process not worrying about getting the old finish off.

[john bateman]

Did you apply the Minwax to the underside also? If not, maybe just flip it over and use the bottom as your top.

[Prashun Patel]

I'd use a card scraper. You'll have to learn how to sharpen and roll a burr on it, but honestly, with a mill file and a screw driver, you can make a sharp enough hook to make short work of your stripping. Learning to scrape is a fantastic thing that'll serve you well for finer finishing as well...

[Victor Robinson]

I'd use a card scraper. You'll have to learn how to sharpen and roll a burr on it, but honestly, with a mill file and a screw driver, you can make a sharp enough hook to make short work of your stripping. Learning to scrape is a fantastic thing that'll serve you well for finer finishing as well...

Thanks Shawn. This is exactly the approach I decided to take. I'd been meaning to get a scraper and burnisher anyways, so put the order in yesterday and should be here tomorrow. I understand scraping is, for many people, one of the most pleasurable processes in woodworking. A best-kept secret, perhaps.

[Prashun Patel]

Another secret is that you can sharpen and roll a burr on a flexible steel putty knife. It won't hold an edge for long, but it'll get most of the finish off easy and it'll knock any high spots left by glue or bubbles, which I try not to subject my 'nicer' scrapers to.

[Mike Cruz]

Yes, scraping is wonderful...it has its uses. I don't believe this is one of them. Scraping an entire table top to get poly off sounds more like a daunting task than the pleasure that scraping can bring. Careful, if may leave such a bad taste in your mouth (figuratively) after doing the entire table top that you may get turned off by it...

[Prashun Patel]

I stripped an entire bench this way. Of course if you can fit it into a planer, that's the easiest.

[Brent Ring]

What about a set of flat, level, parallel rails screwed to the side, and then a router sled to slide back and forth across it. Many use that method when leveling a new benchtop as well.

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks everyone!

I'm going to try to scraper method since it's the cheapest and something I intended to acquire in the near future anyways. Considering that I managed to remove the poly from about an eighth of the table with my stupid Groz block plane, I'm hopeful the scraper method will work. And Mike, I'll try to keep in mind that the scraping experience will be less pleasurable than it can be. :)

If that doesn't work, I'll probably just go the stripper route and do the best I can ventilating our small garage (only opening is the door). Notice my emphasis on cheap options...

The floor sander options sounded good but I really despise renting tools unless I absolutely have to.

Planing not an option - even though the top is in three leaves, the two largest pieces are 30x40" ish...so would have to find a lumberyard willing to do this for me like Ellen suggested. None that I know of in my immediate area off the top of my head, so might have to travel some distance for this.

[Jamie Schmitz]

There are caustic type strippers that have no fumes. For a small amount of surface it would be easy. It spreads on like drywall mud and you cover it with plastic for 8-12 hours and then just scrape it right off (Search for Peel Away). This process will take off up many layers paint unless it is a 2 part resin. Do not get it on your skin or you will be crying. I would be very concerned with scraping or planing as this might make for an uneven surface,unless we are talking a very wide planer. Of course a wide planer would be the best choice.

[Chris Padilla]

Scraping is a wonderful skill to learn...it can be used in so many places. I've scraped old hard paint drips off of various mill work around my house...scrapped small bumps here and there...scraped dried paint off finished wood trim...scrapped a crappy poly job by moi off a small nightstand top. Do it...learn it. Even my wife knows when the scraper can be useful, "Honey, this so-and-so needs scraped!" She used to just say "sanded" but now she knows the difference!!

[ken gibbs]

Ken,
You used both a planer and belt sander? Think there's anyway I can get away with just one of those. I already have a ROS. I was hoping I could make it a quickie cheapie tool purchase...


I had to remove 3/16th " worth of hard wood to get down to the knife cuts somebody's kids made in this table top. Using a hand held planer saved hours of sanding. Using a 60 grit belt sander cross grain took out the marks from the planer. Then I used 120 grit paper in the hand held planer with the grain to get the cut marks out from the 60 grit paper. Then I switched to a random orbital sander with 180 grit to get my finish.

You could start by using your ROS with 60 grit, etc, but it would take you 3 X as long and you would not be able to hear for a week. How much is your time worth?

[David Winer]

Thanks Shawn. This is exactly the approach I decided to take. I'd been meaning to get a scraper and burnisher anyways, so put the order in yesterday and should be here tomorrow. I understand scraping is, for many people, one of the most pleasurable processes in woodworking. A best-kept secret, perhaps.
My understanding is that card scraping is excellent for final finishing. I've tried this method years ago and found it quite effective (for finishing.) If you tackle such a large project as you describe you will likely find that your hands will become overly tired and cramped from holding that card. I suggest you consider a scraper such as in the attached photo. I just checked eBay and found quite a few offered there. Several Stanley # 80s and others.

[Harry Hagan]

I'd find a lumberyard of some kind and pay hem to run it through their planer a couple of times. Spend your time planing the building process not worrying about getting the old finish off.

I had the same issue without the poly coating. Took it to a local millwork shop and they ran it through their drum sander. Cost me $10 and a 15-minute wait. No way I could have gotten it that smooth and level without spending more on materials and whole lot of time.

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Thought you all may like to know what ended up working.

I first tried the cabinet scraper. That was going to take a billion years - it's just much better for finishing. That being said, I can tell you I'm going to enjoy scraping my projects. :)

I ordered a $70 belt sander off Amazon. Boy oh boy...took about 15 min total with a 40 grit belt. Sure, I've got a bit of finish work to do with the ROS and the scraper, but it was FAST and EASY and there's not a trace left of the poly. And now I've got another lil' tool...