Plane Till Question

[Jim Koepke]

My plane till project is getting closer to the top of my list. One question is does a plane till need a slight tilt?

The second question would be if it does need a tilt, how much?

Thanks in advance,

jim

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim - Just finished (almost) mine. Angle is about 7*, with "hooks" at the top that catches the toe + knob area of the bench planes. Without the hooks, I'd go at least 10*.

Block planes are weighted differently - I made a separate ledge to hold block + chisel that is at about 30*, and I had to make a separate bracket for large shoulder that's about 20*. These don't have any hooks - the planes just rest in their slots.

Edit - Jim - if you can wait a couple days, I can post photos, if you are interested. This thing started as a rack to hold 3 lousy saws, then I added the files for the saws, then 10 planes, then 12 planes (2 I dont' even own yet), then some LN screwdrivers I bought, then I decided I didn't like the layout of my tool wall, then I got more clamps, then I decided I didn't even like the brackets, etc for ANYTHING on my tool wall, so I had to remake all of those. No tangents left to pursue - some shellac on some brackets, and stuff is going on the wall. I gotta get a grip here.

[David Keller NC]

My plane till project is getting closer to the top of my list. One question is does a plane till need a slight tilt?

The second question would be if it does need a tilt, how much?

Thanks in advance,

jim

Theoretically, no it doesn't - assuming you've made a catch pocket for the toe and heel.

But I can tell you as somone that has a concrete floor in my shop and a fair number of fairly valuable planes (both valuable to me and in the absolute sense), I'd be a lot more nervous if it didn't have a tilt.

[Brian Kent]

Jim, the more important question is, "How many planes should a plane till hold?"

[Pedro Reyes]

I did put an angle on mine, because I prefered the convenience of easy and safe handling (no cleats, not laces, just lay the plane there). My angle is close to 1 in 2, only because it was determined by the depth of the case and the length of a #6. The "triangular" volume behind the board which holds the planes is also used, the whole thing is hinged and I have access to rarely used stuff back there.

peace

/p

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, the more important question is, "How many planes should a plane till hold?"

I am just making one for my bench planes. The rest will mostly be held in drawers or on shelfs.


The "triangular" volume behind the board which holds the planes is also used, the whole thing is hinged and I have access to rarely used stuff back there.

peace

/p

I was considering this, did you use a piano hinge? is there a frame holding the till to hinge on?

More information would be appreciated as would pictures.

Thanks,

jim

[Chris S Anderson]

I keep my LN planes in their boxes and locked in my craftsman chest and locked in a closet in my locked garage.

In this or last months Fine Woodworking (Tools and Shops) there is a picture of Hack with 20 or so planes hanging behind him. It drove me crazy. Not if the planes fell from their pirch, but if they whole dang thing fell!

[Pedro Reyes]

...
I was considering this, did you use a piano hinge? is there a frame holding the till to hinge on?

More information would be appreciated as would pictures.

Thanks,

jim

Jim,

I didn't use a piano hinge, just two "regular" hinges, since the "door" is intended to be opened only when I have removed at least some of the heavier planes, then there is no need for a very strong hinge. My till holds #3, #4, #4.5, #5, #5.5 and #6, I would not lift the door unless I have removed at least 2 or 3 of the heavier planes. That said, my carcase has a thin plywood (yes sorry) back (1/4") in a groove running all around the inside of the case. This groove is about 3/4" from the back to allow for a french cleat to be attached to the frame and still make the whole case flush with the wall, does this make sense?

Anyway, I have another horizontal stick (maybe 3/4" by 1") parallel to the french cleat, doweled into the frame almost at the top, and I attached the hinges there (screws going through the plywood as well but not using the plywood structuraly). The two blocks seen directly above the #6 and above the #3, at eitehr edge of the "door" are also there to provide "meat" for the hinge screws, because the door itself is thin as well and gets its rigidity from the vertical dividers not from its slim thinckness.

This was one of my first projects, learned a lot, the surface where the planes sit, is darker only because I wrapped the plywood in some felt, to keep the planes warm ;)

Hope this helps, if not let me know and I can get more pics over the weekend (I am traveling right now).

/p

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/pars73/planesmall1.jpg

[Mark Stutz]

Jim,
My design is very similar to Pedro's, only just the center section lifts up for concealed storage. I would measure the angle, but it is buried in the garage with rest of my shop, patiently waiting their new home. I really didn't measure...just used what looked safe.

[Steve Sheehan]

You might try looking on You tube at the L-N videos . You can see a plane till behind Deneb as he works on a scrub plane . I'm guessing the tilt is about 22 1/2 degrees .
I'm busy copying that design right now .

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks all, my thoughts were the panel with the planes swinging to the side not up. Up might be easier.

jim

[Josh Bowman]

This is a little different, but I need to store more planes. Here's mine, it's monted on a french cleat. I think I'm going to turn the planes on thier sides, that will let me add another shelf inbetween the current shelves and allow the blade to stay out and ready if I wish.

[dan sherman]

this one by Chris Gochnour, is at 5 degrees (uses string loops to hold the planes), and looks simple & cheap to make.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=33075

[David Gendron]

Mine just sit on the shelf below my bench, it is realy handy, you can switch plane with out having to run around.

[Ken Whitney]

Here is a small till. The angle is about 20 degrees. There is a small lip that the toe slips in to. The angle seems about right.

It is Frenched cleated to a French cleated panel. I was concerned about the weight:)


138091

Ken

[Dave Anderson NH]

The angle on the tilted top section of mine was determined the same way most of the other folks' was done, using the required depth of the whole assembly.

Chris, Having been in Garrett's shop many times over the years I can assure you that his wall rack for planes and the cabinet he uses to store others are very securely anchored to the brick walls of the building. There is no danger to any of his tools.

[Chris S Anderson]

The angle on the tilted top section of mine was determined the same way most of the other folks' was done, using the required depth of the whole assembly.

Chris, Having been in Garrett's shop many times over the years I can assure you that his wall rack for planes and the cabinet he uses to store others are very securely anchored to the brick walls of the building. There is no danger to any of his tools.


Is that his real shop and till on the cover of FW Tools&Shops ?

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Chris,

I don't subscribe to FW anymore, but his shop is a brick Federal period build he built himself from bricks salvaged locally. It is the only shop he's had for about 14 years now. As for his handplanes, some are wall mounted, some are in a wall mounted box with door, and almost all of his wooden molding planes are in about a dozen large pull out drawers along the back wall of the shop. I would not even venture to guess how many planes he has in total, in fact I doubt if even he knows.

[Jim Paulson]

Dave,

Maybe I missed it, but did you ever provide creekers with dimensions or plans for the wonderful till you made several years ago? I liked your combination of green paint and stained wood.

While tills seem fairly individualistic according to ones inventory/collection, this thread is helpful for those of us who want to eventually build one. Thanks to you all I am getting closer to building one myself.

Jim

[Mike Hutchison]

Wrestling with tilt question also. Keep coming up with 10 degrees as a number; no real reason why. If the till ends up tilted it will probably be back to back with a saw till which is presently on a wall. Both tills to be then mounted on a rolling table. This idea was posted here some time ago
and looked like a good practical solution. I am pushed toward a table by fact that now that the plane till is reasonably close to completion, repeated attempts to find wall space for it are not working out.
So far I am using "shoes" to hold the toes and heels of planes and modified French cleats for smaller/block planes. Trying to work out if they (shoes) should fastened to the shelves or not. If the tilt thing comes into play the issue will be forced in favor of tying the shoes down. Oh yeah, already too small.

[Don C Peterson]

I made mine with a slight tilt. I didn't measure the angle but I'd guess it's around 6 - 8 degrees. The planes will sit on it just held by gravity, but I put the whole thing on casters and I was concerned that the jostling might cause them to fall so I made cleats for the heels and toes.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Jim,

I'll try to see if I saved the plans for the till. I rememer drawing them, but I'm not sure I bothered to save them since I figured it was something I'd only need to build once. I'll check tonight when I'm at home. I'f I don't have the plans, I'll at least throw a tape on it and post a few measurements.

[Eric Brown]

My cabinet holds my planes and most my saws flat. It's easy to grab any tool and use it quickly. My saws have different woods for the handles to indicate rip vs x-cut. Plenty of room to grow too. Will be adding doors soon to hold layout tools, chisels, etc. Bottom cabinet will be getting some draws for more storage. (Yea, I'm a tool nut.)

Eric

138297

[Rye Crane]

Hi Jim,

I used rare earth magnets from Lee Valley recessed into the back of the cabinet to locate and hold the planes in position. I made a 1/2" deep 2" wide channel that allows the planes to sit about 1 1/2" to 2" off the vertical. It is enough to keep them from falling out. This is for the bottom shelf there is a #1, 1.5,2,3,4,4.5,5,51/4,51/2,6,7,71/2,8 bench planes. I was originally going to have dividers between the planes to keep them from banging into each other but with the use of the magnets and the lack of room for dividers I was forced to go without. Haven't had any problems but I exercise some care in accessing them.

On the top right shelf I have the smaller block planes recessed into their own compartments so they won't fall out. The number 9 in the next shelf is on a 30 degree platform with a base that holds it in place with the two dowell plates on each side.

The shelf with the chisels have them inserted into their own slots in a large block of alder. I have rearranged this now because I ran out of room with the purchase of the newer LN chisels (fishtail & skew) I am
waiting until I make the doors with a 4" recess for more tools that will hold the remaining chisels.

I used turnstiles for the back saws and haven't lost any of them yet.

Rye Crane
Pittsburg, Ca.

[Jim Koepke]

This is for the bottom shelf there is a #1,1.5,2,3,4,4.5,5,51/4,51/2,6,7,71/2,8 bench planes.

Wow, and I thought I had a lot of bench planes.

Nice cabinet by the way.

jim

[Rye Crane]

Jim,

Yes, my wife says I have a "problem" . Not sure what she means but
I am on a first name basis with Deneb at LN. So far what I don't have is
their panel saw and the new "match" plane for t/g. There is an upcoming
hand tool even coming to our area in Oakland Feb 5&6th. maybe I'll correct the situation at the show.

take care,
Rye Crane

[Bill Houghton]

given that you, like me, live in shaky country, I suggest you favor more tilt rather than less, and consider methods to keep the planes onboard if the earth starts moving.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

Yes, my wife says I have a "problem" . Not sure what she means but
I am on a first name basis with Deneb at LN. So far what I don't have is
their panel saw and the new "match" plane for t/g. There is an upcoming
hand tool even coming to our area in Oakland Feb 5&6th. maybe I'll correct the situation at the show.

take care,
Rye Crane

I enjoyed the show at the Crucible when I lived in the bay area. It is not too far from the BART station if you do not want to drive all the way in.

jim

[David Gendron]

Eric, you have a nice cabinet to be, I realy like the layout for the plane and the saws. I could see a sharpening station incorporated to it!

[Rye Crane]

Bill,

I used rare earth magnets imbedded into the rear of the cabinet. One to a plane. Even the #8 has no problems staying put. Those magnets are
very strong and it takes a little pull to get the plane to disengage. The magnets even exert a small pull on the bronze planes, enough to keep them put.

Rye Crane

[Hank Knight]

Jim,

I opted for a no-tilt till for my most used bench planes because it takes up less space in my small shop. Garrett Hack's till convinced me I didn't need to tilt it. Mine hangs flat against the wall on a French cleat. It has toe and heel clips to keep the planes secure. I've had no trouble with it in the several years it's been hanging in my shop. My concrete shop floor is always a worry, but I don't know that a different till design would reduce the risk. The only thing I would do differently would be to build it with some extra spaces. I now have a couple of "homeless" 4 1/2s I acquired after I built the till. Here are two photos - one with the till on my bench and the other shows the till hanging on the wall.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hankknight/DSCN0550Small.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/hankknight/DSCN0554Small.jpg

Hank

[Jim Koepke]

Hank,

I like your toe and heel cleats. I have a similar idea, but did not think of using one piece for two planes.

Thanks for sharing,

jim