Wolverine jig, what do I need with it?

[David Hostetler]

I got a Wolverine jig as a gift, and would love to be able to start using it, just wondered what I need to take full advantage of it. I would assume the Skew attachment, and dressing attachment (to make sure the wheels are true / round etc... What I am most curious about is the Vari Grind. Is it worth it?

[Brian Effinger]

The vari-grind is worth it if you use gouges that have a fingernail grind. Either spindle or bowl gouges. I use mine all of the time because it is simple, fast and most importantly give repeatable results.

[Steve Schlumpf]

David - I use my vari-grind all the time and wouldn't be without it! The skew attachment I am not sure I would ever use. I use the small platform/table that came with the Woodcraft slow speed grinder for my skew and scrapers.

[David Hostetler]

I mostly use the roughing gouges, bowl gouges, and I have a set of Benjamin's Best (PSI) Versa Chisels that I have ended up using in favor of the spindle gouge, and actually skews. I rarely use skews at all...

It's these....
http://www.pennstateind.com/graphics/400px/LCVERSA3.jpg

Since the Skew gets such little use, I think I am only aiming at the Vari Grind for now then. Thanks!

[Philip Morris]

David,
I actually have two of the Vari-Grinds, one setup for bowl gouges, the other for spindle gouges. They both have been updated with the bearing, rather than the metal tab to hold the gouge in place (recommended).

I'm with Steve on the skew attachment. I use one because I have it, but I could get along fine without it.

You do need some way of redressing the wheels. Whether the Oneway dressing attachment or just a hand held version is your call.

Also, I recommend the balancing kit for your grinder. It does make things run smoother.

[Cliff Holmes]

I like the skew attachment, cuts down on the limitations of my skills.

I highly recommend the Oneway balancer, it makes a huge difference.

[Steve Mellott]

I use the vari-grind attachment all the time. I bought and then sold the skew attachment. Per your suggestion, you also need a wheel dresser.

Steve

[Bernie Weishapl]

I am like Philip. I have two vari-grinds that are for the spindle gouge and bowl gouge. The skew attachment you don't need as you can use the platform.

[Ryan Baker]

The vari-grind (1 not 2) and the standard platform are essential. I would not buy either the skew jig or the dresser (skews are better done on the platform, and there are better dressing options).

[David E Keller]

I agree with Ryan

[Paul Douglass]

The vari-grind (1 not 2) and the standard platform are essential. I would not buy either the skew jig or the dresser (skews are better done on the platform, and there are better dressing options).

What are the better options? I need a wheel dresser.

[Scott Conners]

Doing it again, I'd buy the jig w/ platform and arm and the vari-grind jig. I don't use my skew attachment, it makes a bevel that isn't easily honed, and I find it very finicky to get a nice straight edge. Easier to use a normal platform. I also find the dressing attavhment poorly designed, it has minor flex in it that makes it annoying on fine grit wheels, and not nearly enough adjustment.
I'd buy Bill Grumbine's dresser if I were doing it again (www.wonderfulwood.com). It uses the normal platform and seems like a good design.

[Ryan Baker]

The single-point diamond truing tools that work with the platform would be the best. There are a couple recent threads about those. If you just want something to clean and dress the wheels, any of the inexpensive T-bar (or other design) handheld tools on the market will do that job just fine.

[David Hostetler]

Great advice folks!

Reading the instruction sheet for the Wolverine, they recommend an 8" full speed grinder with Aluminum Oxide wheels. Any idea why? I always thought slow speed grinders are what you want to use...

[Jerome Hanby]

Through some Internet misadventuring, I ended up getting my wife the stand alone varigrind2 and the add on for the normal Wolverine (which I realized the day before Christmas Eve and made an emergency run to Woodcraft for the Wolverine).

How do the setups differ for the gouges? I looked at some PDF online, but I didn't see any change in the jigs, just how they were used...


David,
I actually have two of the Vari-Grinds, one setup for bowl gouges, the other for spindle gouges. They both have been updated with the bearing, rather than the metal tab to hold the gouge in place (recommended).

I'm with Steve on the skew attachment. I use one because I have it, but I could get along fine without it.

You do need some way of redressing the wheels. Whether the Oneway dressing attachment or just a hand held version is your call.

Also, I recommend the balancing kit for your grinder. It does make things run smoother.

[Jamie Straw]

David, as a new (1-month) user of the Wolverine, I would suggest the following:

Get the original Verigrind (not the Verigrind 2)
Pass on the skew rest -- not necessary at all
The VG2 seems to have been iinvented simply to help people stay on the wheel with the tool -- not slip off the edge of the wheel. IMHO, the awkwardness of the jig is not worth it. It only takes focus and a bit of coordination to prevent this problem.

If you're a member of AAW, I highly recommend their sharpening video. I got it last week, and it's been very helpful, and most demonstrated bring in the Wolverine during their presentation.

[David Hostetler]

David, as a new (1-month) user of the Wolverine, I would suggest the following:

Get the original Verigrind (not the Verigrind 2)
Pass on the skew rest -- not necessary at all

The VG2 seems to have been iinvented simply to help people stay on the wheel with the tool -- not slip off the edge of the wheel. IMHO, the awkwardness of the jig is not worth it. It only takes focus and a bit of coordination to prevent this problem.

If you're a member of AAW, I highly recommend their sharpening video. I got it last week, and it's been very helpful, and most demonstrated bring in the Wolverine during their presentation.

Thanks for the input... Haven't met up with AAW yet, but am looking into the Gulf Coast Woodturners. Problem is they seem to always meet when I am swamped at work...

[Don Geiger]

My experience with the Wolverine skew jig is it only allows you to get a straight edge between the short point an long point. Many people, me included, like a slightly radiused edge. Check out the way Alan Lacer does it. I use his skews and follow his method of sharpening which is using the platform tool rest and pivoting the skew with the handle very low to match the bevel.

As far as wheel dressers are concerned it is a subject I know a lot about. I invented one a while back and market it. It works directly on the 3" X 5" Wolverine platform tool rest and absolutely trues the wheels easily and effectively. Unlike anything else on the market, it has a hefty mass (1.75 lbs) and a fulcrum point very close to the wheel. The diamond is 1/2 ct. and is presented to the wheel at a slight angle. The diamond is advanced in micro increments by rotating the threaded support shaft. The diamond maintains a cone shape. I have replaced only two diamonds in all the years I've been selling this product.

A shorter model is available too, but only works well on tool rests up to 2" front to back.

When the wheels are made to be concentric to the axle, further balancing is not necesary. Balancing only compensates for irregularities in the circimference of the wheel. I've done extensive testing on this and firmly believe it. Even if you were to balance the wheel using weights and did an absolutely perfect job and the vibration in the grinder was corrected; your tools, when applied to the wheels, would still bounce. Then if you corrected the eccentricity of the wheels using a wheel truing system now the grinder would vibrate because the weights would be unnecessary.

I have supplied my Wheel Truing and Dressing Solution to over a thousand turners and have had none that decided balancing was necessary once the eccentricities of the wheels was corrected. I have received only positive feed back from the users. Most report it is the best wheel dresser they've ever used.

If you want to read what other Sawmill Creek members have to say about it: search my name "Geiger" and you'll find some of their threads. Also you can search "Geiger woodturning" or "Geiger woodturner" on Google.


Thanks and good luck with your turning!

Sincerely,
Don Geiger

[Jamie Straw]

Thanks for the input... Haven't met up with AAW yet, but am looking into the Gulf Coast Woodturners. Problem is they seem to always meet when I am swamped at work...

Their sharpening video is very good. You can get it even if you're not a member, it's just $10 more ($35 v. $25 I think). Membership also gives you 10% off at Woodcraft if you happen to shop there. I do when I need something fast 'cause they're just across the water from my island. :D

[Alan Tolchinsky]

My experience with the Wolverine skew jig is it only allows you to get a straight edge between the short point an long point. Many people, me included, like a slightly radiused edge. Check out the way Alan Lacer does it. I use his skews and follow his method of sharpening which is using the platform tool rest and pivoting the skew with the handle very low to match the bevel.

As far as wheel dressers are concerned it is a subject I know a lot about. I invented one a while back and market it. It works directly on the 3" X 5" Wolverine platform tool rest and absolutely trues the wheels easily and effectively. Unlike anything else on the market, it has a hefty mass (1.75 lbs) and a fulcrum point very close to the wheel. The diamond is 1/2 ct. and is presented to the wheel at a slight angle. The diamond is advanced in micro increments by rotating the threaded support shaft. The diamond maintains a cone shape. I have replaced only two diamonds in all the years I've been selling this product.

A shorter model is available too, but only works well on tool rests up to 2" front to back.

When the wheels are made to be concentric to the axle, further balancing is not necesary. Balancing only compensates for irregularities in the circimference of the wheel. I've done extensive testing on this and firmly believe it. Even if you were to balance the wheel using weights and did an absolutely perfect job and the vibration in the grinder was corrected; your tools, when applied to the wheels, would still bounce. Then if you corrected the eccentricity of the wheels using a wheel truing system now the grinder would vibrate because the weights would be unnecessary.

I have supplied my Wheel Truing and Dressing Solution to over a thousand turners and have had none that decided balancing was necessary once the eccentricities of the wheels was corrected. Please chack it out at www.geigerssolutions.com (http://www.geigerssolutions.com). I have received only positive feed back from the users. Most report it is the best wheel dresser they've ever used.

If you want to read what other Sawmill Creek members have to say about it: search my name "Geiger" and you'll find some of their threads. Also you can search "Geiger woodturning" or "Geiger woodturner" on Google.


Thanks and good luck with your turning!

Sincerely,
Don Geiger

Hi Don, Your product looks like an interesting jig although its concept is very similar to Wolverine's diamond wheel dressing jig. But your jig is $100 with shipping which makes it even more expensive than the Woverine which is $70. I don't feel that's a very good value in my humble opinion. But your site is very interesting a has a nice look to it. Good luck with your products. Alan

[Gary DeWitt]

Been using the varigrind for some time and couldn't live without it. My Delta grinder came with a T shaped dresser, works fine for me.
The wheels that came with the grinder were so far out of true side to side that I couldn't stop the grinder from trying to walk away! Extreme vibration. Norton oxide wheels took care of that. Slow speed grinding was more important with carbon steel tools, which lost their hardness at the slightest overheating. HSS can not be overheated at the grinder. I freehand sharpen my skews above the platform, and use it for the scrapers. Here's a link to a video on skew sharpening, really helped me get the best cuts with the least catches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObHzhq11auQ
There is also a second part video on honing. The AAW video (and membership in general) is invaluable.

Lincoln said: Give me 8 hours to fell a tree, and I'll spend 6 of them sharpening the axe.

You'll find in the long run, the sharper you keep your tools, the easier and more fun your turning will be.

[Don Geiger]

Hi Don, Your product looks like an interesting jig although its concept is very similar to Wolverine's diamond wheel dressing jig. But your jig is $100 with shipping which makes it even more expensive than the Woverine which is $70. I don't feel that's a very good value in my humble opinion. But your site is very interesting a has a nice look to it. Good luck with your products. Alan

Hi Alan:
Thanks for looking at my site and for your compliment. Also, please search the SMC site for "Geiger" and you'll find several positive comments from users.
I own a few of the Wolverine wheel dressers that people have sent me after they purchased mine. I have learned there are quite a few differences:
1) Our diamond is twice as large (1/2 ct. vs 1/4).
2) Our tool works directly on the platform rest at a closer fulcrum point.
3) Our diamond is presented at an angle. This extends the life of the diamond considerably. Theirs is perpindicular to the wheel which flattens the diamond and makes it less efficient with each use.
4) Our system works as one unit. Theirs is two units.
5) Our diamond is rotated each time it is advanced toward the wheel. Theirs is not.
6) Our tool is hefty at 1.75 lbs and is machined from bar stock.
8) Our tool does not vibrate.

Please think of the value of the product instead of the price. The Wheel Truing and Dressing Solution, like all of my inventions, is used every day you turn. I know I have many tools that I have spent a lot of money on and hardly ever find the need to use them.

Thanks!

Don

[David Hostetler]

Been using the varigrind for some time and couldn't live without it. My Delta grinder came with a T shaped dresser, works fine for me.
The wheels that came with the grinder were so far out of true side to side that I couldn't stop the grinder from trying to walk away! Extreme vibration. Norton oxide wheels took care of that. Slow speed grinding was more important with carbon steel tools, which lost their hardness at the slightest overheating. HSS can not be overheated at the grinder. I freehand sharpen my skews above the platform, and use it for the scrapers. Here's a link to a video on skew sharpening, really helped me get the best cuts with the least catches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObHzhq11auQ
There is also a second part video on honing. The AAW video (and membership in general) is invaluable.

Lincoln said: Give me 8 hours to fell a tree, and I'll spend 6 of them sharpening the axe.

You'll find in the long run, the sharper you keep your tools, the easier and more fun your turning will be.

My current grinder is a Ryobi BGH-616, which did not include a dressing wheel... I have it fitted with Norton white aluminum oxide wheels, and it is smooth as butter. I do have a cheap T bar type dressing tool for it from Rockler, but haven't quite understood how or why to use it other than to clean junk off the wheel...

I am a little concerned with the wheel size of the 6" grinder though. I am considering upgrading to an 8" grinder. I know a lot of folks don't like Ryobi, but I am considering the BGH-827, there are a LOT of features to the 616 that I am particularly fond of, the built in lights, the eye shields with magnifier, coolant tray etc... and the 827 has those same features. The motor is silky smooth, they just ship with lousy wheels, but then again, most grinders do... My concern with the 827 is the speed, it is what OneWay recommends (3450) but everywhere else I see folks recommending a low speed grinder...

Does it matter that I only have HSS tools?

[Scott Crumpton]

David, as a new (1-month) user of the Wolverine, I would suggest the following:

Get the original Verigrind (not the Verigrind 2)
Pass on the skew rest -- not necessary at all

The VG2 seems to have been iinvented simply to help people stay on the wheel with the tool -- not slip off the edge of the wheel. IMHO, the awkwardness of the jig is not worth it. It only takes focus and a bit of coordination to prevent this problem.


I agree with this, sort of. I have both the V2 and the large version of the original Verigrind. I like the design of the V2 tool holder, hate the design of the lower part. The problem I've seen is that since it holds the gouge in roughly the same place on the wheel all the time the wheel tends to rapidly develop a groove. If you're not constantly dressing the wheel this groove will get transferred to the wings of the gouge.

A real simple solution is to use the original's support arm with the V2 tool holder. The other solution is to cut the upper fork off the V2's support guide. I'm just about ready to do this.

With regard to dressing and balancing the wheels with the Wolverine balancer. It's my opinion that the wheels should be balanced, then dressed to make them concentric, then re-balanced, and finally dressed for use. There are two components to grinder wheel vibration, wheel density variations and wheel centering. The Wolverine balancer can only correct the former, not the latter, and neither can be corrected without correcting the other first. This makes balancing the wheels an iterative process.

---Scott.

[Gary DeWitt]

HSS is considered better by most, holds it's edge better than carbon steel. The only advantage I see to an 8" rather than a 6" wheel is a slightly less concave bevel. Wheel dresser serves two purposes: flattening the face of the wheel for consistent results, and removing black steel powder exposing new grit.

[Jamie Straw]

[snip] I am a little concerned with the wheel size of the 6" grinder though. I am considering upgrading to an 8" grinder. I know a lot of folks don't like Ryobi, but I am considering the BGH-827, there are a LOT of features to the 616 that I am particularly fond of, the built in lights, the eye shields with magnifier, coolant tray etc... and the 827 has those same features. The motor is silky smooth, they just ship with lousy wheels, but then again, most grinders do... My concern with the 827 is the speed, it is what OneWay recommends (3450) but everywhere else I see folks recommending a low speed grinder...

Does it matter that I only have HSS tools?

Lots of people use a 3450 grinder with fine results. It wouldn't be a good idea if you had regular carbon steel tools, but with HSS you're OK. The 8" wheels will have a higher "rim speed" (I don't know the technical term), because the outside surface is bigger than the outside surface of a 6" wheel, but if you use gentle pressure you should be fine.

Some figures from Bonnie Klein's presentation in the AAW sharpening video: Carbon Steel's tempering range is 300*-1050* (*=degrees). HSS's tempering range is 1000*-1100*. When a tool turns blue, it's temperature is around 600* To get a HSS tool hot enough to impact tempering, it would have to get "Very Dark Red.":eek: