Business Overflow Question

[Tim Bateson]

I hate to be vague, but I haven’t yet accepted this large ongoing contract.
Situation – A large quantity of items that will be delivered to my house & need to be completed for pickup within 24 hours – each will be somewhat unique name/date – local company. However… Although the pay is good on this contract, it’s not near enough to quit the day-job. I wouldn’t do this for a single contract even if it was equal to my day job
Option A: Turn down the contract (done this before).
Option B: Work my …tail off, burning the candle at both ends? I’m not as young as I think I am.
Option C: Spin the overflow work off to someone else? Risky – both in quality & contract underbidding.
Option D: …open for suggestions.

[Dan Hintz]

1) Is there any risk to missing the deadline (e.g., signed contract at your end that imposes a penalty of some form, like paying a fine)? If not, move on to step 2.

2) Do you honestly feel you can complete the work within 24 hours (e.g., they're not going to drop it off 5 minutes before you leave for your 8-5)? If yes, go to step 3.

3) Is you machine(s) in top notch order with no issues as of late? If yes, move on to step 4.

4) Can you handle the (temporary) stress? If yes, move on to step 5.

5) Suck it up and make some post-Christmas cash.

[Kenneth Hertzog]

Tim
I do jobs that I can get done within the time frame allowed
I ( like you ) am not as young as I use to be. :-(
If I can't do it myself I don't.
I just tell them I'm not your man. ( or person )
having others help is not always the best idea.
they may not work for what you work for.
or there ethic may be different.
Sorry I didn't get it done just doesn't cut it.
ken

[James Stokes]

If you can get the job done in the 34 hour, call in sick for your day job and do it. If you do it be sure you charge some type of rush fee to discurage that happening in the future. Any job I take like that gets a rush fee added. Make it worth your while.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Spec the job carefully. Bracket the drop-off/pick-up times to an hour of the day you can live with. Allow for mechanical breakdown/power failure, etc., in the contract. Spec things like: "XX hours following the drop-off of all materials required to complete the job" so if they delay, the clock isn't running.
.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

What is your definition of "ongoing" when it comes to this contract? Will they be delivering a large quantity of items every few days, few weeks or few months?

If this only happens every few months, I would take a personal day or non-paid day from your day job and crank out the project. I might even consider it for every few weeks and make up some sort of excuse to my day job why I need to have those personal days off.

[Bruce Volden]

Tim,

Reminds me of a few years ago!! I had thousands of BBQ handles to engrave corporate names onto (I was younger:D). I paid my kids $10/hr to run them through the machine while I was at my "real" job. This went on for several weeks til they were finished. My kids were trained on the machines and how to handle or recover when things went wrong. This worked out real fine.

Forward:

I no longer accept "big jobs"- I'm no longer younger :( Yeah, I say go for it!

Bruce

[Bob McGinn]

Good + Fast = Expensive

If a client wants good, fast work then of course we can put up our prices. We must put up our prices here because we have to postpone every other job we have, cancel appointments/meetings and stay up 24+ hours to get their job done.
The advantage here is that we get quick money however the disadvantage is that we could possibly let other clients down by not delivering their work on time. We get more stressed and if it is a major project, our sleeping pattern gets disrupted.

[Mike Null]

I would not turn work away! This is a routine job-no exotic material, no difficult art--just volume.

Get somebody else to help you out.

I have three other engravers who will back me up if I get jobs of this type. I still make a little on their work and the customer is happy.

Only one of the other engravers is in St. Louis.

[George D Gabert]

Another thought.

Set the 24 hr lot size to what you feel you can do on your schedule and see if they can live wiyh it.

This is also a good reason to develop dialog with other hobby laser owners in your area,who can back you up and who you can back up. This helps both parties. Also if they take the contract away due to your inability to complete the project on time, you were over stressed anyway and they may need you to take their overflow.

Also you may be able to outsorce the job to them and ask for a finders fee.

GDG

[David Fairfield]

If you have a day job, you have the luxury of turning down jobs that are liable to stress you out. I generally refuse high stress jobs.

Dave

[Doug Griffith]

In this crappy economy, I welcome stress if it comes with margin.

[Dave Johnson29]

I hate to be vague, but I haven’t yet accepted this large ongoing contract.


I don't have any answers, but some points for you to ponder.

Who is doing this work now? Maybe they are unable to cope reliably or the company is looking for a better price.

Will you have spares to use if a screw up? Each being "somewhat unique" is a recipe for disaster and screw ups as you get tired.

Who pays for the spares? If indeed blank spares are available.

Can they drop half Tuesday and the other half Thursday? Why do they have to drop everything on one day.

Can you control quality and delivery times if you farm stuff out? I would be more worried about QC than someone taking the job from you.

Personally, and I suspect you are at this position too, :) I'd walk. Too many difficulties to overcome, let someone else have the drama.

[Robert McGowen]

I don't know anything about engraving, I just like reading the posts for some reason.

It would seem like every business that has employees has an employee do the work and the owner makes the profit. Yes, it is a smaller profit than doing it yourself, but you only have so much time. There is a risk in having employees and not doing it yourself, you just have to balance it out. If you want to take the next step, I would consider training someone to do the job in case you do not have the time and go from there. I would rather make $.50 each on a 1000 pieces that someone else did than nothing on zero pieces that I turned down. Good luck with your decision. YMMV

[Joe Pelonio]

I would not turn work away! This is a routine job-no exotic material, no difficult art--just volume.

Get somebody else to help you out.

I have three other engravers who will back me up if I get jobs of this type. I still make a little on their work and the customer is happy.

Only one of the other engravers is in St. Louis.
I agree with Mike, and have sent out work to other locals at times. Last time was when my tube went out in the middle of one of those big, short turnaround jobs. Murphy's law makes adds a lot of risk to this project, if you take it on by yourself and blow it, you could lose a lot more work down the road. Since I took a day job I have trained my regulars to give me a weekend and if they can't wait will go elsewhere but come back because my prices are a little better and they are loyal.

[Tim Bateson]

Thanks for the comments. It gives me a lot to ponder. I'm holding my verdict until I've met with the customer later this week to go over the details.

Additional Info: This is an established business in both Cincinnati another large city. Currently this process is being done in the other city. However, the cost of transportation and time has them looking for someone local. Work may come in daily or several days a week. Weekend orders do not require 24hr turn around.

Mike - Your advice sounds like something my dad would have told me - he was a factory maintenance man for 40 years.

[Chuck Patterson]

If you have something to offer that the competitor can not, it may give you some room to negotiate the terms.

When meeting with a high volume customer, I ask what it is that they are not getting from their current supplier that they are needing and not getting. What is it that they NEED and not getting? Whether it be price, quality, delivery times, customer service, etc. I then evaluate the situation and establish my price, time, and resources accordingly to meet their needs.

[Rodne Gold]

The customer seems to be looking for faster and cheaper service , if you can't handle it , pass on the job or as others have said , renegotiate the time frames.
We have often done that , being honest and realistic with the customer as to our capabilities has had the result of unrealistic turnarounds being modified.

[Scott Shepherd]

Tim, don't forget about Murphy's Law. If it's a 24 hour turnaround and your machine goes down, what's the plan? Mr. Murphy loves to be involved in rush jobs :)

[Tim Bateson]

Tim, don't forget about Murphy's Law. If it's a 24 hour turnaround and your machine goes down, what's the plan? Mr. Murphy loves to be involved in rush jobs :)

That Murphy guy sure gets around. He was quoted & I might say credited at my day-job today. Overnight during a "routine" maintenance window, our servers got messed up. No issues with the Servers other than our user accounts no longer function. Mr Murphy & his "laws" doesn't seem to like "routine". :p

Back on-topic: Good reminder, thanks Scott... and Mr. Murphy. :rolleyes:

[todd mckechnie]

I can say from rush jobs that I do, it definitely pays to have a back up plan.

In a situation such as this, a back up machine ? Back up parts of everything in the machine ?

I am new to laser engraving ( I dont even own one yet ), so I can't speculate on whether its feasible to have back ups of every part ( meaning a operating second machine ).

Whats the worse case scenario ? What happens if you can't deliver the goods in that specified time frame ? What penalties are you looking at for the unable to deliver on time factor.

Say you make 1000 parts at $1 each in 24 hours for them. If you deliver 950 parts in 24 hours does it drop to .50 cents a part ? If that does happen , is it still profitable for you to try and tackle this ?

In my business , I don't have companies sending me 1000 pcs to work on. What I do is strictly custom, one off every item. So I have a rush of 1 week to turn around a custom project that requires extensive man hours to custom build and fit together. If I miss the rush date, then I lose the rush charge, thats the way it works for me. So I have to make sure that I dont blow off my current customers to make a few extra bucks. Its usually not worth it for me.

So the only advice I can give is think it over alot. Its great to get all the opinions here. But the bottom line is , you have to figure out if you think you can acomplish this task and make money without killing yourself over it.

To me if you have to take a personal day off of work to finish the job, its not worth it.

Be very careful too of a company that wants a rush job that fast. As said before, ask why the previous company didnt work for them. I would ask for the name of the previous company and I would contact the previous company and ask if they still owe them any money ( unpaid bills ) or were changed demands mid way through the process ? I can tell you I ve turned down work, when I found out that a competing vendor had already worked on the part and the customer bailed , paid half the bill for 1/3 of the job and pulled it. Now they are looking to have it finish someplace else and trying to get it done cheaper thinking 1/3 of the job is done.

Just becareful, there are alot of crappy companies out there doing things like this......

Good luck !

[Bill Cunningham]

Not being as young as I used to be(and hopefully smarter too), I have turned down jobs like this. High stress, what happens if you miss the deadline? How long is it going to take to get paid (the bigger the company the more chance your invoice will "vanish" for 60 days or better).. But most of all, when I ponder this type of job I have to ask myself: "Do I really want this to contribute to me being the richest guy in the grave yard"!:eek:

[Mike Null]

Or, if I don't take it will I end up in Potter's Field.

[todd mckechnie]

But most of all, when I ponder this type of job I have to ask myself: "Do I really want this to contribute to me being the richest guy in the grave yard"!:eek:

That is awesome quip ! That gave me a whole new view of things LOL.

I ll have to remember that more often.

On a side note I had a rush job I just finished for someone, finished with two days to spare. Now the problem the customer states is they don't have all the money right now and says they cant pick it up till next pay period which is two weeks from now. So they are claiming they shouldn't have to pay the rush charge now ( $100 ) because of it ! ( which you know was probably the plan in the first place ).

Now I guess maybe it only makes sense to people in business for themselves why this doesn't make any sense.... LOL I guess it takes all kinds.....:mad:

[Dan Hintz]

Todd,

I hope you still intend to charge them the rush fee. Their inability to keep proper financial fluidity has no bearing on their initial requirement; your work was to be done within a shortened time frame, they were aware such a requirement incurs an extra fee, and therefore they are required to pay it, regardless of their lack of proper planning. If I asked a car dealer to add on a GPS package, I wouldn't expect them to give it to me free when I later decided I knew my way around town.

[Doug Griffith]

What I've noticed about this thread is that most would turn the job down if it involves too many issues. Issues that could be overcome with hard work and added stress. I guess the economy isn't as bad as they say it is.

[Tim Bateson]

As it turns out this was a job referred to me from another Creeker. It doesn't sound as time consuming as it did when I was first approached. I think they were quoting massive amounts of work just to see how interested I was. It now sounds like a reasonable & very doable proposition.

Thanks Mike D.

[Dee Gallo]

On a side note I had a rush job I just finished for someone, finished with two days to spare. Now the problem the customer states is they don't have all the money right now and says they cant pick it up till next pay period which is two weeks from now. So they are claiming they shouldn't have to pay the rush charge now ( $100 ) because of it ! ( which you know was probably the plan in the first place ).

Now I guess maybe it only makes sense to people in business for themselves why this doesn't make any sense.... LOL I guess it takes all kinds.....:mad:

So now you tell them, okay you don't have to pay the rush fee, but you DO have to pay the 2 week storage fee which is more.

;) dee

[Mark Winlund]

On a side note I had a rush job I just finished for someone, finished with two days to spare. Now the problem the customer states is they don't have all the money right now and says they cant pick it up till next pay period which is two weeks from now. So they are claiming they shouldn't have to pay the rush charge now ( $100 ) because of it ! ( which you know was probably the plan in the first place ).

Now I guess maybe it only makes sense to people in business for themselves why this doesn't make any sense.... LOL I guess it takes all kinds.....:mad:


You did require 1/2 down in advance, didn't you?

Mark

[Doug Griffith]

On a side note I had a rush job I just finished for someone, finished with two days to spare. Now the problem the customer states is they don't have all the money right now and says they cant pick it up till next pay period which is two weeks from now. So they are claiming they shouldn't have to pay the rush charge now ( $100 ) because of it ! ( which you know was probably the plan in the first place ).

Now I guess maybe it only makes sense to people in business for themselves why this doesn't make any sense.... LOL I guess it takes all kinds.....:mad:

It sounds like they are playing games with you. If you didn't receive a down payment, tell them to get back to you in 2 weeks, once they've been paid. You'll resolve the rush charge then. At that point, tell them there is no rush charge but your rate has gone up $100. Make them wait as long as possible because if they were in a rush before, they probably still are and won't have time to pull the same shenagens on someone else.

[Chip Peterson]

that sounds like a nice problem to have Tim. In this market, I'd have to agree with those who esentially said "do whatever it takes and have a back up in case of a problem". I know that when I get opportunities now, unless it is a really bad business case, I'll do everything I can to get it done.

If you need help, I know the SMC crew would come to your rescue.

Good luck!

[todd mckechnie]

It sounds like they are playing games with you. If you didn't receive a down payment, tell them to get back to you in 2 weeks, once they've been paid. You'll resolve the rush charge then. At that point, tell them there is no rush charge but your rate has gone up $100. Make them wait as long as possible because if they were in a rush before, they probably still are and won't have time to pull the same shenagens on someone else.


Yeah I usually don't get that. I think I am going to charge a storage fee AND the rush fee ! LOL

[Bill Cunningham]

From My 'Terms' page:

DELIVERY TIME
Initial orders requiring artwork and approval require 1-4 weeks depending on the product. Re-orders not requiring new artwork, molds, or dies require less time, depending on the product. Rush service is available on most products. Additional time may be required for enameling. For Laser engraved, or printed items, for 'local' customers, there is a 'fixed' rush charge of $20.00, which 'may' be refundable if the item is picked up on time. I.E. 'when' the customer requested it to be ready. If 'we' are asked to rush on your behalf, we expect 'you' to pick it up on time, or pay the rush charge -- Its only fair!! -- The words "Oh damn! I forgot" will NOT save you the $20.00