What are the differences in these table saws?

[Wayne Jolly]

Hi all,

I have been looking at the Grizzly website contemplating buying a new table saw. I see in in the catalog that there is a G0691, and a G1023RLX. When I look at the specs I don't really see much difference. Both have 220V 3HP single phase power, both have riving knives, and almost all of the other specs are the same or VERY close. The G0691 says it has a Leeson motor and the 1023 doesn't say brand of motor. The G1023 mentions a serpentine belt and the G0691 doesn't say so I would "assume" a triple V-belt design. The one big difference is in the shipping weight. The G0691 is 572 lbs and the 1023RLX is 130 lbs heavier at 702 lbs.

Is the 1023 itself that much heavier? If so, why? Is the G1023 worth the extra $45?

Thanks,

Wayne

[Rick Moyer]

Casn't say for sure; info from the spec sheets online (take with a grain of salt):

actual weights within 7 lbs.
elect. 0691= 6 ft cord, 14 ga., 20a circuit
1023= 10 ft crd, 12 ga., 30a circuit
origin 0691= China
1023= Tawain

I wondered about the cord, etc. before I bought my 0691 last year. My best guess here is the Leeson motor is more efficient than the one on the 1023, but I don't know. I didn't understand how similar HP saws could have such different specs for amps/etc.
I have not looked at the 1023rl series yet, but when I looked inside the 1023sl and 0691 they seemed to be very similar in terms of trunnion strength/weight and over construction. Not sure why Grizzly carrying both saws right now!?

[Wayne Jolly]

This is funny. I sent an email to Grizzly customer service asking them what the differences are. They don't even know. Here is part of their response.


.
.
... Unfortunately, we have not received the G1023RLX Table Saw into stock at this time. Once the G1023RLX Table Saw arrives into stock, we will be able to provide additional information other than what is in the catalog.
.
.Wayne

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Rick Moyer;1309007]Casn't say for sure; info from the spec sheets online (take with a grain of salt):

actual weights within 7 lbs.
elect. 0691= 6 ft cord, 14 ga., 20a circuit
1023= 10 ft crd, 12 ga., 30a circuit
origin 0691= China
1023= Tawain

I wondered about the cord, etc. before I bought my 0691 last year. My best guess here is the Leeson motor is more efficient than the one on the 1023, but I don't know. I didn't understand how similar HP saws could have such different specs for amps/etc.
QUOTE]

Hi Rick, it all boils down to how much money the motor manufacturer put into it.

All my large machines have premium efficiency/premium power factor motors, with a premium price tag. They draw substantially less current than the cheapest motors of the same power output.

Regards, Rod.

[Steve Peterson]

You have to ask yourself, do you want a good motor with the rest of the saw made in China? Or an unknown motor on a much heavier saw made in Taiwan? Its a tough call.

The motor is a very important part of the saw and the Leeson motor is rated at 12.8A while the other motor is 18A. Can the unknown motor be that much less efficient?

My guess is that the 1023RLX will soon be discontinued by the G0691.

[Dave Lee NC]

FYI The Leeson motor in my 0691 says made in China right on it.

[Jim Rimmer]

Too bad they don't have a comparison chart for tablesaws the way they do for bandsaws.

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Steve Peterson;1310736]
The motor is a very important part of the saw and the Leeson motor is rated at 12.8A while the other motor is 18A. Can the unknown motor be that much less efficient?
QUOTE]

The worst range I've seen is 12.7 amperes to 19 amperes for the same HP motor......Regards, Rod.

[Jim O'Dell]

Yeah, the information on the new 1023R saws is still a little sketchy, just like it was on the 690/691 saws this time last year. What we see in the catalog and online is probably all that CS knows about this saw at this time. Some differences already noted is the motor. We had that discussion last year when we found out the 690/691 had the Leeson motor. Mine also says made in China. Obviously Leeson has them built to a better standard than the typical motor.
Things we know about the new 1023R:
1) does add the riving knife.
2) has a blade shroud dust pick up (690/691 doesn't)
3) totally redesigned trunnion (where the 690/691 appears to be the old 1023 trunnion updated/changed for the riving knife) This may or may not have added weight to the saw.
4) there is a curious bump at the top right of the saw, at least in the picture. Possibly required to let the dust shroud clear on tilts.
5) has the serpentine belt instead of the triple V belt design. Not sure which is actually better. The serpentine may be smoother, but does it transfer the power as efficiently?
6) 2" more rip capacity than the 691
7) 4" dust port either on left side or back of saw. Where was the dust port on the original 1023? (I prefer the location on the right side, like the 690/691. Only saw I've seen with this configuration)
8) $45.00 higher than 690/691
9) heavier than previous 1023SLX (709 vs 540 shipping weights) Original shipping weight of the 691 in last years catalog is 644. Not sure why that changed. I just verified, my shipping slip from UPS Freight for my 691 shows 573 lbs. The original 644 could have been an estimate for a new saw where the copy for the new catalog was submitted for print several months before the saw was available. The same could hold true for this new saw. Could just be slightly off.
10)the 1023RLWX is available with with the 5hp option. None of the other 1023R models offer this in the catalog. Possible option later?
That's all I can tell from catalog. Wayne, you may have to be a little patient until the unit actually hits our shores to get the answers to your weight question.
If the 1023RLX had been offered when I got my 691 last month, it would be a toss up. The weight difference is nice, but I doubt that it would be a deciding factor for me. It would have come down to the difference of the 1023R having the dust shroud around the blade vs the dust port on the right (to me the correct) side of the saw and on a door that it can be modified to 6"without modifying the cabinet...not sure if the 1023 is on a door or part of the cabinet. I think I would have still ordered the 691, unless there is something about the new trunnion system that is vastly supperior. Time will tell on that one!! Good luck with your decision. Did CS say when they expected the new saws? Jim.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jim, the poly ribbed belts have higher efficiency than the V belts.....Rod.

[Cary Falk]

My guess is that the 1023RLX will soon be discontinued by the G0691.


I find it hard to believe that a brand new design with a riving knife would be relaced by a 1 year old design with a riving knife. It is confusing as to why there would be 2 different lines with basically the same features. I wouldn't think this would be cost effective. I am glad I am not in the market for a table saw.

[Wayne Jolly]

Jim - they did not say when the saw is expected to arrive but they did say:


Most backorders are filled within 4-6 weeks and we do fill all backorders first.

It's that word "most" that has me wondering.

As for the "heavier" part of your reply. Yeah, heavier is probably better, but the actual weights in the specification sheets are only 7 lbs different. 590 lbs for the G0691 and 583 lbs for the G1023RLX. That small of a weight difference could be the motors (and pulleys, etc.) and fence systems.

Patience is one thing that I have is spades. Besides deciding which saw to buy (NOT limited to Grizzly), I have to decide if I want to spend the money on a new saw, more wood, or more toys. Can't do more than one.

My current saw is a Craftsman contractor that I have "helped" by putting on a Delta T-2 fence with some home made rails that give me 42" capacity, and it took two sets of home made PALS (one in front and one in back) to get the blade to stay aligned with the slots. But I am able to get the saw alignment to stay dead on now. But a nice cabinet saw would be nice.

Thanks for the info. The more you know the better.

Wayne

[Matt Stiegler]

Just to provide a little context, here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=106066) is a old thread where Shiraz and others discuss differences between the old 1023 and the 690/1. Until I saw this thread I didn't even know there was a new 1023, so no light to shed there.

[Van Huskey]

Jim, the poly ribbed belts have higher efficiency than the V belts.....Rod.


Correct this is based on the fact you will never get 3 V belts that are the same length, the shortest is always taking the brunt of the load and the other two slip to some extent. The short belt will stretch but then the longer belts have "polished" etc etc. The 3 V does transfer the power they will stall the motor without spinning the belts the real advantage in the poly V is lower vibration thus smoothness of cut. The third type is the wedged V like the PM66 has.


I figured with riving knives mandatory for UL listing now the 1023 was gone particularly after they intoduced the 0691 which occupies the exact some niche but for what ever reason it lives on with a riving knife. My inclination is unless they somehow screwed the 1023 up in the change over process I would buy it. The 1023 has been a strong performer for many years THE best buy in the cabinet saw arena. As of 2010 with the updated 1023 I can see no reason to take a chance on a 691, I am sure it is a fine saw but unless you like the paint better I don't see what overshadows the reputation of the 1023. As for motors the increased efficiency will never save a hobby shop owner any real money and unless the motor is actually built in America I could care less. Although an American made Leeson or Baldor is a nice addtion to a machine the reality is the avaerage hobby shop guy will never see any difference. Alsa I am not convinced Asian motor draw specs are of any use, one seems to rate theirs to appear more powerful while the next rates to appear efficient. I would have to see real world amperage draws to even entertain the two motors are that far afield from each other.

[Brad Westcott]

I was also noticing the changes in the products carried by Grizzly. It seems all reference to a hybrid table saw have been removed. It also appears that use of the term "cabinet table saw" is inconsistent.
Without referencing the manuals for details on trunnion design, it is very hard to determine exactly what each model does or does not have.The G1023RLX sure looks tempting. I could really use the extra cutting capacity and the larger cast iron table. The dust collection features would also be very welcome. I am still pleased with the the performance of my Delta contractor saw but the Grizzly would really resolve a lot of the shortcomings of my current TS.

P.S. Their catalog is HUGE and I never new they carried so many products.