Wanting to get a router plane

[Zach England]

I think me next tool purchase will be a full-size router plane. Can anyone recommend one? I have never handled, much less used one of these before.

I see that the old Stanley 71 go pretty inexpensively on Ebay, but they look to me like they have a lot of fiddly little parts and I am thinking I'd be better off to buy a new Veritas model. Please advise.

[Richard Niemiec]

FWIW, I sold off my Stanley 71 and bought the LV Large with the fence; don't even think about getting it without the fence. I thought about the LN for a long time, but I found the LV is a bit more to my liking. I've never looked back.

[Josh Bowman]

I've got 2 of them. They actually do a very good job. If for instance you are going to route a dado, you have to cut the sides with a saw, but the 71 router will do the rest....and as fast as an electric one. They really are no more than a fixed chisel. But you'll besurprised how well they do and real quite.
BTW...what's that long black rope for on an electric router? I keep pulling it but the thing won't start!

[harry strasil]

make one, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=119557&highlight=router+tutoral

[Zach England]

Black rope is for hanging yourself after your router skips out of whatever jig you conjured up and makes a mess of your workpiece. Hence the desire for a router plane.

[harry strasil]

actually its a cobination stop switch, and leach for when it gets away from you, and a finder for when it gets away and hides under something. It also works as a tether when you swing it around and let it go when its on a path for the scrap box.

[Zach England]

Thanks for the replies. I tried to search but did not come up with much. Probably EEBCAK. I think I will buy the Veritas.

For the record, I have nothing against routers. I just think a router plane would be a lot easier to use for some tasks.

[Mike Henderson]

Whichever one you buy, get one with a depth adjusting wheel. I find it really difficult to adjust the depth by hand.

I bought the Lie Nielsen small router plane but don't use it that much because I find it hard to adjust.

Mike

[Andy Hsieh]

I have one veritas on the way - bought specifically for helping with dados on the project I am about to start.

derek cohen and alice frampton have done nice write ups/ reviews on it

I also have no issues w/ tailed tools if it makes the job easier but I want to master my handtool skills before I choose which tailed tools will be most valuable to me.

hope the veritas works for you!

[James Taglienti]

I just use a 71 1/2. Router planes are one trick ponies. The large number of home made examples that cam be found show that it is pretty specialized, i would think, and also quite simple. Mine is a bronze patternmakers copy. I have used it 3 times in 3 years. Plowing grooves goes to the plow plane, dadoes go to a handsaw with a guide, and for cleanup, a couple of chisels and a rabbet plane. Maybe the router plane if it gets really gnarly. I dont like them very much, every stroke you have to readjust the depth. i am sure it is an operator issue. the vast quantity of user made ones may also be testimony to the router planes versatility and value.

[Don Dorn]

Whichever one you buy, get one with a depth adjusting wheel. I find it really difficult to adjust the depth by hand.

I bought the Lie Nielsen small router plane but don't use it that much because I find it hard to adjust.

Mike

Yep - I found the same thing with my Veritas small router plane. Frustrating, huh? After two years of messing with it, I have a LV Large one on the way.

For the OP: Had some difficulty deciding between the LN and LV, but ultimately chose the LV because it comes with three blades, a better fence system (even though it's optional) a jig to sharpen the 1/2" blades, and like the Stanley 71 1/2, it doesn't have the hump. Oh yea, took advantage of it during the free shipping days too.

[James Owen]

I think me next tool purchase will be a full-size router plane. Can anyone recommend one? I have never handled, much less used one of these before.

I see that the old Stanley 71 go pretty inexpensively on Ebay, but they look to me like they have a lot of fiddly little parts and I am thinking I'd be better off to buy a new Veritas model. Please advise.

I have and have used both the Stanley 71-1/2 and the LN full-sized router planes. Both will do the job well, but the LN is a much nicer functioning plane.

No experience with the LV router, although it looks very nice, and given LV's reputation, and my experience with other LV tools, I'm sure that you would be very satisfied with it, as well.

[Richard Magbanua]

I went with the LV as well. It works great, just be sure to have a good work-holding system. I use it for dadoes a lot but I hog-off the waste with chisels first. To me, it's more of a finishing tool. Chisels are much faster to use for removing the waste. I really love it for tenon cheeks. You can get consistent depths on your tenon cheeks by using the router plane on each side.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/3261207710_1c21f29723_o.jpg

[Andy Hsieh]

I love illustrated posts :o- thanks for posting the pic :)

[David Gendron]

+1 for the Veritas, I don't have one, but it is on my list... long list!!

[harry strasil]

sure beats a shoulder err rabbit plane for tenons.

[Allan Froehlich]

I have the little Veritas router plane.

It works well, but sometimes I wish I had a larger one.

[Derek Cohen]

And when you what it can do for hinges ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Dovetail%20Cabinet/Hinge%20Morticing/13Routerplane.jpg

(I posted a thread on hinge morticing recently) ..

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zach England]

Cutting small hinge mortises with a chisel is precisely what made me want one.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.....get one with a depth adjusting wheel......

I got the LN 71 a few months ago, and the adjustment mechanism was what drove the decision. All I can say is......I wish I had gotten this sucker many years ago - I think back to all the struggles with stopped dadoes and tenon fitting/tuning that would have been avoided. Absolutely love this tool. Know nothing about the LV version.

[Zach England]

Just curious--why do people prefer the router plane for trimming tenons? It seems much easier with a shoulder plane rabbet block plane.

[willie sobat]

I find it is the ideal tool for half mortice locks drawers (with dovetail saw and chisel). I have a Stanley 71 (UK). I imagine it is not as smooth as the LNs and LVs but it suits my needs just fine.

[Steve Hamlin]

Depth for small routers can be increased in suitably small increments by judicious use of a light hammer. Initial set just by placing it loose on the workpiece and tightening - then tap. For a set depth, use paper/foil shims to raise the sole off of a hard surface by the depth required.

Got a shoulder plane, almost never use it. Certainly never on a tenon. Occasionaly on a rebate.

Cheers
Steve

[Kent A Bathurst]

Just curious--why do people prefer the router plane for trimming tenons? It seems much easier with a shoulder plane rabbet block plane.

Shoulder and rabbet block are in the tool kit as well - I use them both. The router plane lets you set and lock in the depth - dead-nuts flat across the entire tenon face (you need a second part or milled scrap to support the outboard end of the plane, of course).

Easy to duplicate cut on both sides of tenon (assuming your design was centered), and for both ends of the stretcher/rail, and mulitple parts with same dimensions. The 71 has the rock-solid depth adjuster, but also has a depth locking ring/sleeve, so if you need to make muptile passes, you will end up in the same place when done.

I haven't done any hinges since I got the 71 - as described by Derek - but I am SO looking forward to using it on those as well - again, dead flat and depth stop means I know a lot of words that I won't have to use quite so often next time.

I saw a desctiption/explanation by Derek on router plane + tenons a few months ago. Ordered my LN 71 that same day. Watch out - Derek can help you empty your wallet faster than you thought possible.

One possible advantage of the LV over my LN is that it directly accepts other blades. With the LN, you need to buy an adapter to accompdate the smaller blades from the small router plane. Don't know how big a deal this is - I haven't needed the smaller blades so far.

[Preston Baxter]

I bought an ECE wooden router way back before LV or LN made routers. Its very simple, and like most simple things works extremely well.

Looking at it now I just shake my head and think that instead of spending money, I could have just made one out of a block of hardwood and an old allen wrench.

Adjustment is simple. To increase the depth, tap the stem of the iron with a mallet. The heavier you tap the heavier the cut.

Here it is in action cutting the dog holes for my workbench...
http://personal.bellsouth.net/p/s/psbax/ww/DCP_0245.JPG

[Derek Cohen]

Anyone looking to build their own router plane ... old woman's tooth (OWT) ... can follow the directions on my website for this one ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OldWoman'sTooth_html_m65d2df6c.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OldWoman%27sTooth.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

Depth for small routers can be increased in suitably small increments by judicious use of a light hammer. Initial set just by placing it loose on the workpiece and tightening - then tap. For a set depth, use paper/foil shims to raise the sole off of a hard surface by the depth required.

Got a shoulder plane, almost never use it. Certainly never on a tenon. Occasionaly on a rebate.

Cheers
Steve
I'll give you an example of where I had problems without an adjusting wheel. I was making mortises to set hinges into, and I had three hinges on each door (6 mortises per door). I marked out the position of the mortise and outlined the shape with a chisel, and used a chisel to get the majority of the wood removed.

The router plane was great to get a flat bottom. With my Stanley 71, I was able to adjust the blade down to where the wood started. Then take a turn (I don't remember exactly how much) to trim the next level. I continued this until I was down to the mark I had made for depth.

But the 71 was a bit big for what I was doing so I bought the LN small router. The problem was incrementing the depth for each cut. I'd go too much or too little. If too much, the wood split, and if too little, it was wasted effort.

If I only had one hinge mortise to do it wouldn't have been too bad, but I had a bunch to do and I didn't want to spend all day fiddling with the plane. I went back to the 71 with the adjusting wheel and things went a lot faster.

I should sell that LN small router because I'll probably never use it again.

I even contacted LN and complained about not having an adjustment on the small plane - that's how strongly I felt about it.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

If I only had one hinge mortise to do it wouldn't have been too bad, but I had a bunch to do and I didn't want to spend all day fiddling with the plane. I went back to the 71 with the adjusting wheel and things went a lot faster.

I should sell that LN small router because I'll probably never use it again.

I even contacted LN and complained about not having an adjustment on the small plane - that's how strongly I felt about it.

Hi Mike

A couple of comments ...

Firstly, I was wondering how you go about using the router plane, especially the small LN, to clean out your hinge mortices? The reason I ask is that I have received many comments from others expressing their surprise that I use it (and demonstrated this above) by pushing the router blade into the cross grain (rather than with- and into the grain). I have also stated that the large router plane is the better choice for hinge mortices since it has the better/wider support. The perception must remain that the small router plane is suited for hinges as it can get inside the mortice, per se. I think the small router plane is better suited to inlay work.

Secondly, I believe that all router planes should have depth stops. I view the LN depth stop on the Large a better design than the split ring Veritas depth stop, and so built my own version. I also built a smaller version for the Small router plane. These may interest you and others ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DepthStopsForVeritasRouterPlanes.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DepthStopsForVeritasRouterPlanes_html_2329a72b.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DepthStopsForVeritasRouterPlanes_html_422d2dc5.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

I do it cross grain, as you showed. One reason is that I feel I get better support for the router plane that way. No problem with getting the wood out if you've made a stop cut with a chisel around the border - I'm pretty sure this is exactly what you said earlier.

Mike

[Bob Haverstock]

If I only had one hinge mortise to do it wouldn't have been too bad, but I had a bunch to do and I didn't want to spend all day fiddling with the plane. I went back to the 71 with the adjusting wheel and things went a lot faster.

I should sell that LN small router because I'll probably never use it again.

I even contacted LN and complained about not having an adjustment on the small plane - that's how strongly I felt about it.

Hi Mike

A couple of comments ...


Secondly, I believe that all router planes should have depth stops. I view the LN depth stop on the Large a better design than the split ring Veritas depth stop, and so built my own version. I also built a smaller version for the Small router plane. These may interest you and others ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DepthStopsForVeritasRouterPlanes.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DepthStopsForVeritasRouterPlanes_html_2329a72b.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/DepthStopsForVeritasRouterPlanes_html_422d2dc5.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

I really like your depth stops, I can see one now on my router.

Bob

[Zach England]

I hate to bump this but I still do not have a router plane. I ordered the Veritas, but Lee Valley had them backordered first until Feb. and now until almost April.

So I am taking another look at the Lie Nielsen. There are two reasons I do not like it. Once is the open mouth. I can cut a piece of wood to fit it. No big deal.

The other is the lack of different blades like the Veritas. I think the v-shaped cutter in the Veritas would be useful. Is this true?

The other option is the ubiquitous Stanley. I'd rather not go that route unless someone really recommends it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Phillip Pattee]

Zach,
Yes, the V-shaped cutter is useful. In fact, so far I have found it the most useful. If you were cleaning out a stopped dado, the square profile is a obvious choice, but if you are going clear through, the V-shape really works.

What I have is the Miller Falls (I think it is a 67) router plane. It is basically a copy of the Stanley. I got it cheap because it had no blades with it. The Veritas blades fit the vintage router planes, and I bought those to make it a complete tool.

[harry strasil]

I use my Stanley 71, I got at an estate auction for $17, new condition in the original box quite often in my Basement shop, but I have yet to use the V cutter, I tried it a couple of times, but it didn't work as well as one of the straight blades. On my several shopmade router planes/old woman tooth's, I prefer a skewed straight blade.

my $.005 worth

[Sean Hughto]

I have the LV, and would recommend it. I use it a lot.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52609&cat=1,41182,48945

[Zach England]

Sean, that is my first choice, too, but I am the impatient type and they are back-ordered until March 23.

I think I am going to go ahead and order the Lie-Nielsen and keep my order from Lee Valley, then I can compare the two and will likely sell one unless I find each has a unique advantage.

Can anyone who has used both comment about how the fences compare?

[Sean Hughto]

I'm sure the LN is great, like all the rest of their tools. I personally choose the LV because I was concerend that the open throat design would be a pain in the butt. I know that one can affix a wood bottom, but I didn't want to have to, and also, I didn't see the "improved vision" the open throat provides as useful or necessary for the application I was imagining. I've never wished my LV had an open throat, and I've often been thankful it had a closed one.

[Bill Houghton]

I see that the old Stanley 71 go pretty inexpensively on Ebay, but they look to me like they have a lot of fiddly little parts and I am thinking I'd be better off to buy a new Veritas model. Please advise.

The fiddly parts components are about the same between a Stanley and the LV router, and they're not terribly fiddly at all. The only real fiddliness on a Stanley is that, on some of the early ones, the clamping collar could slide up and down on the cast post against which the collar operated, so you have to hold it in the right place while tightening. But this is no big deal.

Note that Stanley routers before 1939 didn't have a fence (type studies at http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/routers/stanley/). I've heard mixed things about whether a fence is worth having, but it's probably better to have one and never use it than find it would have been helpful. I own one with a fence and have yet to use it; but, because we've been head down on some major house remodels for some years now, I use the router plane only intermittently.

[Zach England]

I finally made a decision on the router plane

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/Altoids_router1.jpg

[Chuck Tringo]

Beautiful Zach, where can I get one of those and how much ? :D