Thinking of returning Festool drill...

[Cameron Reddy]

I'd like some comments from some of you who are not terribly impressed with the Festool drill. I find that a hammer-action drill does a better job at driving hard-to-drive screws. I get MUCH LESS cam-out with the hammer action.

Plus, I'm put off by my normal collection of bits and hex shank drills fitting only in their bit extender (not sure of it's actual name).

Someone had just posted in the now erased thread that he didn't like the drill, but liked a Festool saw and sander. I'd love to find out from him WHY he didn't think the drill was so great.

Anyhow, as there is STLL much to be gained form discussing Festool, please comment!

Cameron Reddy

[Thomas S Stockton]

First comment, they have a great return policy if your not happy return it and find another drill that works well for you.
2nd comment- when buying tools don't get sucked into brand x is best argument. Look at the particular tool you want and decide that way based on features and intended use. I have some Festool products and they are good tools but I look at their catalog and see tools that I would not be happy with while other companies offer a similar product that fits my needs much better
Tom

[Chris Harry]

I think a lot of the disappearing comments are the mods hard at work (and, rightfully so). Festool "discussions" somtimes end up resembling more of a flame war/argument than an actual discussion.

Its interesting you dont seem to like the drill, though. The only time Ive ever seen one was Ask This Old House, one of the contractors seems to use one all the time. It sure looks like its a nice drill! Doesnt seem to have much issue with cam-ing out, etc.

But, sometimes TV works better that way :)

If I were looking for tools, Festool would be where I would look for sanders, Domino, etc. For a cordless drill I would (and have done so) look elsewhere. Bosch, Makita, Ridgid, etc. Just my opinion though.

[Harry Hagan]

I find that a hammer-action drill does a better job at driving hard-to-drive screws. I get MUCH LESS cam-out with the hammer action.
Cameron Reddy

Why would you keep the drill driver if you're not happy with how it performs? Take it back.

As you said, hard-to-drive screws require another tool to do the job right.

Drill a hole = drill driver.

Hard-to-drive = impact driver.

[Cliff Holmes]

I find that a hammer-action drill does a better job at driving hard-to-drive screws

I've found that hammer-drivers are no better at driving, they're just easier to work with because they don't generate the tremendous reverse-torque that the drills do. On the other hand, they're terribly noisy and slow.

[Cameron Reddy]

I've found that hammer-drivers are no better at driving, they're just easier to work with because they don't generate the tremendous reverse-torque that the drills do. On the other hand, they're terribly noisy and slow.

What do you mean by reverse torque? I've wondered why it is that a hammer action seems to produce less cam-out than normal turning of the bit...

I've got a Panasonic hammer-drill that has three electronic speed settings, and on fast, it is FAST. I'm finding myself reaching for it over the Festool...

[Cameron Reddy]

Why would you keep the drill driver if you're not happy with how it performs? Take it back.
...

I'm considering it. Had I not received 20% Bing cash back, it would probably already be on its way.

That eccentric chuck is the one thing it can do that no other can...

The finger control of speed is also the best I've used. So for delicate tasks it is superior...

[Harry Hagan]

I got a great deal on a Panasonic combo kit. Drill and impact drivers plus a flash light, all for the price of one driver from other places. They were purchased from someplace in South Carolina.

I reach for the impact driver when driving screws . . . no comparison in that task. I also have a Festool saw, router, domino, etc. with no complaints on either brand other that they’re both rather pricey.

[Richard Dragin]

I don't think you guys are driving screws with "hammer drills". I'll guess you are referring to an "impact driver".

[Richard McComas]

Maybe I confused here but a hammer drill in not for screws. Hammer drills are for drilling holes on hard materials like concrete. The hammer action is more of an up and down hammering. An impact driver is for driving screws and has a ratcheting rotational type of hammering similar to what mechanics use to install lug nuts on car wheels.

[Ed Griner]

I have used Panasonic drills,with high AH batteries. The 12 volt impact hammertakes care of everything,screws,self tappers,socket heads,allen screws,I don't take care of it,its outside in my van,hasn't been above freezing for about three weeks.I have used panasonic since it first came out(1990?).It has just about eliminated screwdrivers,small rachets,allan wrenches,for me, they are the best. I use 12volt because,we older types don't feel like carting around any extra weight.

Ed

[Van Huskey]

I don't think you guys are driving screws with "hammer drills". I'll guess you are referring to an "impact driver".


If they are using a hammer drill they need to get their hands on an impact driver. The first time I used one I could not wait to buy one, a good one will make driving even a lag bolt a pleasurable experience!

[Cameron Reddy]

I'm referring to an impact drill... not a true hammer drill. However, I used the term "hammer action" to refer to the "impact" part of the drill's operation.

The question I have is: Why is an IMPACT drill better at driving screws with less cam-out? I know it's true. I'd like to know why it's true.

Now, if Festool came out with an impact drill that accepted standard hex accessories... Oh, my, I'd be in heaven.

I may end up using my Panasonic Impact drill for hard tasks, and the Festool for those hard to reach screws and other applications where a light touch is in order.

[Jason White]

Phillips head screws were actually designed to cam out to prevent over-driving them. Google the history of this type of screw and you'll see that it was designed for assembly lines and other industrial, machine-type applications. I would guess that they became popular for carpentry and woodworking when "sheetrock" screws became widely available.

Impact drivers are great! I have two of them. They're particularly useful for a lot of regular carpentry tasks like driving long deck screws, exterior trim screws, light framing, smacking together a quick workbench or sawhorses, etc. I like a regular drill-driver with a trigger that I can "feather" for woodworking. I've tried assembling cabinet boxes with the impact driver and always end up over-driving the screws.

If cam-out is a big issue for you with the Festool drill (or any other brand of cordless drill), try using square-drive screws. I'm quickly becoming a convert! I don't like the ceramic-coated ones, however. Too hard to get the driver bit into the hole because of the coating.

Jason



I'd like some comments from some of you who are not terribly impressed with the Festool drill. I find that a hammer-action drill does a better job at driving hard-to-drive screws. I get MUCH LESS cam-out with the hammer action.

Plus, I'm put off by my normal collection of bits and hex shank drills fitting only in their bit extender (not sure of it's actual name).

Someone had just posted in the now erased thread that he didn't like the drill, but liked a Festool saw and sander. I'd love to find out from him WHY he didn't think the drill was so great.

Anyhow, as there is STLL much to be gained form discussing Festool, please comment!

Cameron Reddy

[Jim Becker]

I happen to be one of many who like my Festool drill/driver a lot. It's probably my most used tool alongside of the 150/3 sander. I have the TDK-12 and it's a workhorse tool for me...and light enough to remain comfortable in my hand. I also value the alternative heads that came with it. A number of times the offset chuck has solved a problem inside cabinets, etc., for example. Battery life is outstanding in my experience, too. And then there is the metal construction inside, unlike many drill/drivers on the market today. For me, all this was worth my investment but I can appreciate how it might not be a good fit for others. It's nice to have choices.

I will agree with you around the issue of using commonly available hex tooling, but will point out that the Centrotec system is pretty well thought out. The Festool tooling sits deeper in the design, fully engaged with the drill/driver's shaft, unlike all the other systems. This almost eliminates run-out and provides very positive driving power to the tooling. The quality of the Festool tooling is also excellent...I'm still using the Phillips wire-detent bit that came with my drill/driver several years ago and it's like new. (As mentioned in the next section, I primarily use Robertson/Square Drive, but there are so many situations where one still must use Phillips in construction/destruction, etc.)

But it also means that folks with existing tooling will need to either use the BHS-65 bit holder (which extends things by about an inch and a half) or modify their tooling. That reduces capability in close quarters. Further, for those of us "standardized" on Robertson/Square Drive fasteners, there is no native Festool bit available. I've gotten around that by chucking regular square drive tooling in my lath and using a file to cut a new ball detent groove in the proper location for the Centrotec chuck and to slightly knock off the corners to adapt to the format of the hex recess in the tool. This took me about a half-hour, but was time well spent. Trust me, I (and others) have been very vocal about the lack of native support for Robertson/Square Drive tooling with the company.

As mentioned above, there are many choices for tools. If the benefits of the Festool drill/driver are best suited to your needs, then buy it. If it doesn't meet your needs, buy something else. Festool will cheerfully refund your money if you don't like the tool, too.


The only time Ive ever seen one was Ask This Old House, one of the contractors seems to use one all the time. It sure looks like its a nice drill! Doesnt seem to have much issue with cam-ing out, etc.

But, sometimes TV works better that way

FYI, Tom Silva was introduced to and bought his Festool gear from the same dealer that many of us enjoy working with...

[Cliff Holmes]

But it also means that folks with existing tooling will need to either use the BHS-65 bit holder (which extends things by about an inch and a half) or modify their tooling.

You can also remove the centronic chuck and use the hex drive directly, it's a standard size.

[Jim Becker]

You can also remove the centronic chuck and use the hex drive directly, it's a standard size.

This is correct, but it has limed holding power on the bit. Not a problem with fastener types that don't grip the driver, but with Robertson/Square Drive...LOL...the bit stays in the fastener. Seriously, I do this quite a bit for "really" close quarter driving.

[Cameron Reddy]

When I put a hex shanked drill into either the end of the BHS-65 bit holder or the hex drive of the drill sans the centronic chuck, I have the same problem. The drill bits don't stay in the drill!:mad::mad:

A small bit placed into the BHS-65 is gripped pretty well by the magnet in the BHS-65. But it doesn't hold any of my expensive Fuller hex shank tapered bits.

And nothing stays in the main hex opening of drill except Festool chucks.

I'd really like to make this work... but I can't see how I'm going to do it... I did just order a set of Festool drill bits to see if their existence improves things. I don't think they are tapered, though. And they are not my US Made Fullers...

[Jim Becker]

Cameron, I've never had a bit pull out of the BHS-65 bit holder...it accepts both wire and ball detent standard tooling. But the BHS-65 must be held by the Centrotec system...you can't just push it into the drill/driver "naked"...there's nothing to hold it on the tool outside of friction. If it's pulling out of the Centrotec...you're not fully seating it. It goes in a LONG way!

[Cameron Reddy]

Jim, thanks for your help. I'm holding the drill in my hand making sure we are talking about the same thing. The Centrotec bit holder is held onto the drill's main hex fitting. You pull the black release to attach and detach. Similarly, the green release works with the BHS-65 and you are right, you have to push the BHS-65 into the Centrotec bit holder further than you think to get it to seat fully. From that point, the BHS-65 will not pull out. I'm there.

The problem is the bit that fits into the hex opening at the end of the BHS-65. The BHS-65 holds screwdriver bits pretty well as it's got a very strong magnet. But that magnet isn't nearly strong enough to pull a taper drill bit out of wood. THATS where I'm frustrated. :mad::mad:

[John Harden]

Someone had just posted in the now erased thread that he didn't like the drill, but liked a Festool saw and sander. I'd love to find out from him WHY he didn't think the drill was so great.


That was probably me. To be clear, I REALLY like the small Festool pad sander I have. I tested out one of their orbital sanders and didn't like it at all.

Why don't I like my $600 Festool drill? Proprietary bits required. Simple as that. Can I get around it by buying yet another Festool accessory? Probably.

Does it work well? Yes. Does it work three times better than my Bosch impact driver. No. In fact, as an impactor, the Bosch works better for winding in difficult to drive screws. Does the Festool work three times better than my Panasonic drill? No, it does not.

I have nothing against Festool. I like the clean design of their vac's, but frankly, my Fein is much quieter and provides just as much clean suction.

Festool's systainer's are also difficult to dispose of as they take up too much room in my trash can. Why do I want yet another case for tools? I have plenty of storage in cabinets and tool chests.

I have nothing against high end tools. I have a Felder slider/shaper and a Felder, 16" Jointer/Planer.

Some may disagree with my reasoning. That's fine. To each his own.

Opinions are like that. Neither right, nor wrong, just opinions. No reason to pop a vein. :)

Regards,

John

[Joe Jensen]

Jim, thanks for your help. I'm holding the drill in my hand making sure we are talking about the same thing. The Centrotec bit holder is held onto the drill's main hex fitting. You pull the black release to attach and detach. Similarly, the green release works with the BHS-65 and you are right, you have to push the BHS-65 into the Centrotec bit holder further than you think to get it to seat fully. From that point, the BHS-65 will not pull out. I'm there.

The problem is the bit that fits into the hex opening at the end of the BHS-65. The BHS-65 holds screwdriver bits pretty well as it's got a very strong magnet. But that magnet isn't nearly strong enough to pull a taper drill bit out of wood. THATS where I'm frustrated. :mad::mad:

On the bit end of the BHS-65, the black knurled end will push back toward the drill. Push back, slide the bit in, and release. I use ball detent bits and it holds them perfectly. I don't use wire detent, but I am pretty sure I've read it hold wire detent as well...joe

[Paul Johnstone]

I'm considering it. Had I not received 20% Bing cash back, it would probably already be on its way.


Don't keep it just because you got a good deal on it.

It seems like you are unhappy with it, so return it.

A drill is a tool I would not spend a Festool premium on. There's so many nice drills made by other manufacturers which work fine.

[Cameron Reddy]

On the bit end of the BHS-65, the black knurled end will push back toward the drill. Push back, slide the bit in, and release. I use ball detent bits and it holds them perfectly. I don't use wire detent, but I am pretty sure I've read it hold wire detent as well...joe

Well, perhaps we have an answer. It appears I have been confused about the BHS-65. I had assumed it was the bit holder that came with my drill. However, mention of a knurled end prompted me to search for a BHS-65 and that is NOT the part I have. So, I have been incorrectly describing the bit holder. Mine does not have a knurled end that articulates to hold in detent bits. My bit holder is magnetic hold. And only magnetic hold. I will have to get the real BHS-65 and see how I like it.

[Matt Slayen]

So I am a little confused here...
I have 3 festool drills. I started with a TDK on closeout, then found a screaming deal on a used CDD and broke down real fast when the LI-ION came out last year.
I use my drills all the time.
I have never bought any of the festool bits. Am i missing something? I just put a standard bit holder in the jacobs style chuck and use that to hold standard bit tips.... If i need to drill a hole, i put a standard drill bit in the jacobs chuck....
If i am doing a lot of back and forth between drilling and screwing, i use two drills, or two jacobs chucks in the same drill (a big advantage of the festool removable chucks)...

Back to the original post, i have found that for light screw work i use my Bosch PS20 most often. I also have retired my CCD from attic and crawl space work in favor of the Bosch.

That being said, I use my festool drills all the time and will but a new one if they ever died.

MATT

[D Randall]

I have the c12 and love it. I like the weight, and I like the changable chucks. I use the centrotec chucks as much as I can for driving. I use my robertson bits in one of the BHS 65 because it hangs on to the bit. I use that for everything outside of Kreg driving. Love the weight. the battery life is right for my use, cycling the batteries enough that they get even use, and the quick charge is plenty for my needs. I only wish they had a Li-Ion battery for the c12, but the NiCad are fine so far.

[Brice Burrell]

There's a lot of confusion going on here about Festool drills and accessories. Part of the confusion stems from all the options you get from Festool drills that aren't really available from any other drills on the market. For the record, proprietary bits are not required in Festool drills. All Festool drills come with a removable keyless chuck, so all drill and drive bits will work just like in any other brand drill.

Festool's proprietary bits are needed for use in the Centrotec chuck (also included with every Festool drill). As Jim pointed out the Centrotec system is made to have reduced runout and a direct connection to the drill's output shaft. This in an improvement over almost any other quick change system out there. The downside are the proprietary bits.

I wrote a review of the new(ish) Festool T15+3 where I go over the features of the T15 in great detail. Maybe the review will help anyone on the fence make a decision one way or the other. http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage86.html

[Cliff Holmes]

proprietary bits required in Festool drills.

I think you meant to put "are not" in that ;)

[Jim Becker]

I think you meant to put "are not" in that ;)

I fixed it...

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Brice Burrell]

I fixed it...

Jim
SMC Moderator

Thank you Jim.