Washing machine update

[David Freed]

I picked up our new Samsung washing machine (http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/appliances/washers-dryers/washers/WF448AAW/XAA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail) today that I mentioned in this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=122716&highlight=washing+machine) and temporarily hooked it up. We are keeping the old machine to do really dirty clothes in and I don't have the new plumbing hookups installed yet.

My wife put 1 large load through it. The amount of clothes she put in would have been 3 loads in our top load washer. We watched it go through its cycles. Instead of continuously tumbling the clothes as I assumed it would, it would constantly start then stop throughout the entire process. When it tried to start the spin cycle, it tried several times to balance the load by stopping, reversing the drum rotation for a few seconds, then trying to spin again. After many tries without ever getting close to full spin speed (1300 rpm's), buzzer rang and it said it was done even though the clothes were still very wet. :confused: We restarted it on spin only cycle and this time after many tries, it got the load balanced well enough to kick into high speed.

I will update my review later after we run a few more loads through it. I would be interested to hear if this all sounds normal from anyone else that might have one of these machines.

[Mike Henderson]

This is not directly to your situation but about a year ago we bought a new top loading washer - old one was maybe 20 years old. One thing I noticed immediately was that the new one could handle the spin cycle much better - it almost never gets out of balance. I don't know what changes they made but the difference is remarkable.

Mike

[Terry Ventorini]

I have a Samsung front loader (mine doesn't have steam) my ol'lady loads it up, and it runs fine. when it washes it only sloshes left, right. I'm sure you checked but is your machine level??

[Mike Cutler]

David

The part about not continuously tumbling during the wash cycle is probably correct. Our front loader sloshes them back and forth, also.

The lack of spin at the end is a problem. Your final rinse cycle cycle should have ended up with the drain valve opening, and beginning the spin.
The washer should have cycled back and forth ensuring that the load was balanced, and that the level( water) in the drum was empty. If the load is out of balance the washer will just cycle back and forth attempting to spin.
Try a smaller load of laundry, or run the washer empty. Make sure that it's level and check that any discharge clean out ports/filters aren't obstructed.

Any, or all of the shipping blocks and stops have been removed haven't they?

[David Freed]

I have a Samsung front loader (mine doesn't have steam) my ol'lady loads it up, and it runs fine. when it washes it only sloshes left, right. I'm sure you checked but is your machine level??
It was a temporary hookup. I brought it home later in the day and we just wanted to run a load through it to try it out. It is still on the roller cart that I pulled it in the house on. I used the old washer's hookups and quickly "leveled" the cart by eye using wood blocks and shims so it probably wasn't perfectly level. I am going to build a stand to put it on for the permanent installation and use a real level.

While it was washing, it rotated so slowly that I wouldn't say it was "sloshing".




David

The part about not continuously tumbling during the wash cycle is probably correct. Our front loader sloshes them back and forth, also.

The lack of spin at the end is a problem. Your final rinse cycle cycle should have ended up with the drain valve opening, and beginning the spin.
The washer should have cycled back and forth ensuring that the load was balanced, and that the level( water) in the drum was empty. If the load is out of balance the washer will just cycle back and forth attempting to spin.
Try a smaller load of laundry, or run the washer empty. Make sure that it's level and check that any discharge clean out ports/filters aren't obstructed.

Any, or all of the shipping blocks and stops have been removed haven't they?
It don't think there are any obstructions because the water drained out quickly, but I will check the filters. The writen installation instructions did not say how many shipping bolts to remove, but the picture showed 4, and I took those out. I will try a very small load and see how it does.

[Randy Cohen]

we have a frigidaire front loader that we got about a month ago. (from sears, < $500 with rebates). it is important that it is level. the machine works great. it does the balance thing with every load but the clothes come out dryer than they ever had with our old top loader. normal cycle time is about 45 minutes. when it washes the clothes tumble one way for a while and then the other. then it rinses twice with less than top speed spinning. the final spin is very fast. vibrations are minimal.

[Mike Cutler]

David

In the event that it turns out to be the timer/timer module, I would return the washer. The lead time on timer modules can be fairly long, and in the case of one national brand, almost indefinite.
Don't let them order you a new part without a written guarantee of a delivery date as a minimum. If they can't, bring the washer back immediately.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I know the problem. You've got the door facing to the front. Everyone knows washers have their door on top.

We had a washer with instructions that INSISTED on facing the door to the front and it was the most miserable piece of junk we ever had. I even bolted it to the floor to keep it from jumping out into the middle of the room. After it ruptured it's speen, we got a new machine and installed it with the door facing UP this time and it's working fine.

Try laying the machine down so the door faces up. Gravity won't work against you that way.
.

[Myk Rian]

It's a known fact that front load machines look fancy, but are not the best choice.

[Dave Ogren]

I am not an expert but have done my homework. I can completely rebuild a top loader in 2 ++hrs and I am slow. The front loaders only have one (1) bearing and it is in the rear. Leverage ??? Prone to failure. The best way to keep a top loader running is to leave the door open when not in use, so the moisture can escape. Any of you guys can rebuild a top loader, you only need a special wrench, costs about $10.00 Keep the bearing more lubed than it was from the factory. Change belts every few years. All of the high volume users such as groomers, beauty shops etc that do 7 to 10 loads per day all use a Whirlpool top loader. There is one horizontal maching (which loads from the top) has bearings front and rear and is indestructable made in a machine shop in Ohio, called Stauber or close, costs just over $1,300.00 but why?? There is a very poor return on investment. Repair the top loader. I have no afilliation with any of these companies. I just want to keep my money in my pocket.
Good Luck,

Dave

[Jim Becker]

It's a known fact that front load machines look fancy, but are not the best choice.

I'm not sure I would agree with that after using our LG SteamWasher and LG SteamDryer for over a year. Totally better cleaning than our old (also high-end) top-loader (which is still in service in the old basement laundry for horsie stuff), quieter, faster and it holds more. But I can imagine that there are front-load units that don't perform well just as there are top-load units that don't do a good job.
-----

David, just be cause you can FIT a load in the machine that's three times the size of your old top-loader, doesn't mean it can handle that much. You need space in the machine for it to work. So don't over-stuff it... ;)

[Paul Ryan]

It's a known fact that front load machines look fancy, but are not the best choice.

I have a very close friend that has been repairing appliances for 35 years. He has been uttering that same thing ever since front loaders again became the latest and greatest. As he says for some reason maufactureres didn't learn the 1st time, back in the 70's and early 80's, that front loaders have their issues because of the design. Now they go and try it again. Because they can make extra $$ on pedestals, and by saying they are more energy efficent. They may save a few bucks in water, but are inherantly pron to more failures. And they begin to stink due to water that can't be drained.

[David Freed]

Sorry for the slow response. As I said in my first post, I temporarily hooked it up. When I lifted it off of the shipping styrofoam I found out why it wouldn't balance. The styrofoam went up inside the machine and the outer drum was resting on it. Now that I have it permanently hooked up it works fine. So much for cutting corners. :rolleyes: My wife really likes it.

[Scott Shepherd]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the rest of the world been using front loaders for decades now? I rented a house in the UK for work 15 years or more ago and it had all front load stuff in it back then. I can remember going to the DIY stores and seeing nothing but them.

[Al Willits]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the rest of the world been using front loaders for decades now? I rented a house in the UK for work 15 years or more ago and it had all front load stuff in it back then. I can remember going to the DIY stores and seeing nothing but them.

Yes, Europe seems to be full of them, but they were into using less water way before we were, front loaders will work if you don't over load them, use the right soap and keep them on a stable floor.

Loading one up with three times what a top loader can handle is a quick way to a broken washing machine

If you washer in the spin mode won't ramp up but just keeps trying and then does the slow back and forth thing, its a good bet it's trying to redistribute the load because it thinks its out of balance, a unstable floor will cause this too.

You can not run a front loader on a cart, or a rack/floor that allows flex.

As far as commercial units, Maytag and Whirlpool are the favorites for the Laundromats around here.
Maytags dual drive belt washer being number one, but they're getting harder to find.

Al

[Jerome Hanby]

Same here, but we've had ours over two years. Best washer and dryer I've ever used. And Best Buy price matched lesser models from a quote Ii had from Home Depot on the Tromm models. Felt like we stole them:D.


I'm not sure I would agree with that after using our LG SteamWasher and LG SteamDryer for over a year. Totally better cleaning than our old (also high-end) top-loader (which is still in service in the old basement laundry for horsie stuff), quieter, faster and it holds more. But I can imagine that there are front-load units that don't perform well just as there are top-load units that don't do a good job.

[David Helm]

We've had the top end Whirlpool Duet for four years. I set them up as stacked units. They have been magnificent. Large loads, very clean clothes and low water use. My friend the appliance repairman told me that the current generation front loaders are tops.

[Pat Germain]

I've been following the progress of front loaders for awhile. The subject comes up a lot on another forum where I hang out.

It seems, like any new product, there were some serious problems early on. The problem I heard about most was mold and mildew. I understand the newer machines have got that problem licked. But retrofitting the old machines is turning out to be a real soup sandwich.

Another problem was with balance. In an older home with flexible floors, the top loaders would shake and shimmy. Thus, it seems the front loaders do require a very stable floor.

Many, many people report glowing results from their front loaders. The machines use much less water than top loaders and still manage to do a great job at cleaning clothes. That can be a big benefit for large families as well as people with septic systems that tend to get overloaded. Also, as more people convert to front loaders, entire communities will save significant amounts of water. That's a big deal here in the West.

So, I don't think it's fair or accurate to malign the entire product line. In spite of the problems, would think the repair guys would love them if it kept them busy.

[Paul Ryan]

In spite of the problems, would think the repair guys would love them if it kept them busy.

You would think that would be the case Pat, but I can tell you 1st hand as a repair guy my self, cars though not appliances. I am not very fond of the cars that I know are lemons, or POS's on delivery. They kept me busy and I made lots of money on them, because I could do alot of repairs with my eyes closed. But I could honestly say don't touch this model or that model.

[Al Willits]

""""""""""
So, I don't think it's fair or accurate to malign the entire product line. In spite of the problems, would think the repair guys would love them if it kept them busy.
"""""""""

Hard to tell a customer their $700+ washing machine needs $350 or more worth of repairs when its only a year or two old, you end up being the bad guy in many cases.

Boards going out can be well over a $100, in many cases a new motor requires a motor control board with it.

Sales departments are designing these and many other appliances not repair people.
The more features the better....until you have to repair them.

Al

[David Freed]

I am not an expert but have done my homework. I can completely rebuild a top loader in 2 ++hrs and I am slow. The front loaders only have one (1) bearing and it is in the rear. Leverage ??? Prone to failure. The best way to keep a top loader running is to leave the door open when not in use, so the moisture can escape. Any of you guys can rebuild a top loader, you only need a special wrench, costs about $10.00 Keep the bearing more lubed than it was from the factory. Change belts every few years. All of the high volume users such as groomers, beauty shops etc that do 7 to 10 loads per day all use a Whirlpool top loader. There is one horizontal maching (which loads from the top) has bearings front and rear and is indestructable made in a machine shop in Ohio, called Stauber or close, costs just over $1,300.00 but why?? There is a very poor return on investment. Repair the top loader. I have no afilliation with any of these companies. I just want to keep my money in my pocket.
Good Luck,

Dave
I can't find a parts diagram of my washer (yet) to see how it is supported, but on any kind of tool or machine I have seen, there are 2 bearings or bushings at some point on a shaft to keep it stabilized. I can't visualize how 1 bearing would work.

One major reason for getting a water saving washer is because our well gets low every summer and my wife has had to do our laundry at the laundromat every summer for several years. A new well will cost us over $6000.



Yes, Europe seems to be full of them, but they were into using less water way before we were, front loaders will work if you don't over load them, use the right soap and keep them on a stable floor.

Loading one up with three times what a top loader can handle is a quick way to a broken washing machine

If you washer in the spin mode won't ramp up but just keeps trying and then does the slow back and forth thing, its a good bet it's trying to redistribute the load because it thinks its out of balance, a unstable floor will cause this too.

You can not run a front loader on a cart, or a rack/floor that allows flex.

As far as commercial units, Maytag and Whirlpool are the favorites for the Laundromats around here.
Maytags dual drive belt washer being number one, but they're getting harder to find.

Al

We did not "overload" our machine on its initial run. It was 3 times as big as her old washer because it would only do medium loads. The large setting was broke. To fill it to its rated capacity as stated in the manual, my wife would have needed at least another 1/2 basket of clothes. She wanted the large size to do bed covers not giant loads of clothes. I stabilized the machine before we loaded it. It was on a solid but temporary base. Read my previous post for why it wouldn't balance. It is now on a stand that I could drive one wheel of my pickup on and that stand is on a concrete floor.

[Dave Ogren]

David,

I have not been into a frontloader. My info. comes from the washing machine repair forum. One (1) bearing is conceivable, it would have some thing to due with the length of the bearing in relationship to the shaft diameter. But that being said I think what they really meant is a bearing behind the tub leaving the tub loaded weight all ahnging out, where as the one manufactured in Ohio has a bearing on end of the tub and the shaft goes right through the center. That would be the best way to support the load. That is why even though the machine has a horizontal tub and operates like a front loader it really loads from the top. How ?? I have not seen one of them either.

Sounds like you need to do something about well.

Good Luck,

Dave

[David Freed]

David,

I have not been into a frontloader. My info. comes from the washing machine repair forum. One (1) bearing is conceivable, it would have some thing to due with the length of the bearing in relationship to the shaft diameter. But that being said I think what they really meant is a bearing behind the tub leaving the tub loaded weight all hanging out, where as the one manufactured in Ohio has a bearing on end of the tub and the shaft goes right through the center. That would be the best way to support the load. That is why even though the machine has a horizontal tub and operates like a front loader it really loads from the top. How ?? I have not seen one of them either.

Sounds like you need to do something about well.

Good Luck,

Dave
Got a spare $6000? :D

I lost both of my businesses and had to file bankruptcy. Our washer and dryer both quit, our car has problems, our house needs a roof, etc. I finally found a good job 3 months ago and we are trying to prioritize and take care of one thing at a time. The well will have to wait a while. Right after we ordered our front loader, someone offered us their old washer and dryer. That is how we ended up with 2 washers.

A bearing like you describe supporting the drum from the rear could last a long time if it was designed right. I am still trying to find a parts diagram to see how mine is built.

My wife did several loads of laundry today. In all the cycles, this machine just floats like there is nothing in it.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

It's a known fact that front load machines look fancy, but are not the best choice.

Myk, I also need to disagree. True - I'm sure everyone has had good and bad experiences with both types, so this might just come down to personal experience. We did have a bad initial experience with our front-loader.....worked great for a few months, but then had a bad control board. It took a few weeks of haggling with them to replace it (the deal was if the replacement part was not at our house by a certain day, they'd replace the whole unit. To their credit, it wasn't and they did).

Since then, I'm very happy we got it. Much happier with it than *any* top loader I've ever used over the years.

[Matt Ranum]

We bought a Frigidare front loader 4 years ago. I was quite sceptical of how it would work and the longevity of it since my old Whirlpool top loader lasted me over 20 years. Do I think this will last that long? No, but thats the way it works today it seems things are designed for replacement rather than repairs.

However, we have been pleasantly surprised at the performance and savings this machine has brought. Water useage was a concern as well since we have our own private septic and its a mound type system and all the waste water goes into it which means more pump usage in the septic tank itself. Also since the install our electric bill has dropped about $10 a month and I relate that back to the water pump, septic pump ,and the dryer which is electric, doesn't run no where near as long now.

4 years later I would say I would buy another in a heartbeat.