Can you read end grain in a limb?

[Baxter Smith]

Another piece of wood and another question.:) In an earlier post when I mentioned I had some limbs to turn, Leo Van Der Loo cautioned me about the tension and compression wood.
In this particular piece, the limb had quite a curve to it, I'm assuming up. The growth rings were wider on that side as well. Do those things always go together or just in this piece?
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I cut the piece in half lengthwise so it had less curve, then split it through the pith. The larger growth rings were on one blank and narrower on the other. That would have resulted in one piece being the top of the limb and one the bottom. I turned the top or wider ringed piece. Right, wrong or no choice in this case?
The limb has been cut for a couple of years and just left leaning against the trunk so hopefully won't be terribly prone to splitting now.

Thanks as always for your thoughts.

Yellow Plum - 2 3/4 h x 4 w x 1/4 Finished on the lathe with Danish Oil and bagged.
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[Matt Hutchinson]

Nice looking bowl! I really like its grain and color!!

As far as blanking the limb, I think it really depends on whether you twice turn and/or whether you make natural edge pieces. Judging by the picture, I can see some really cool NE forms. Also, when choosing what to do with a log, I usually shoot for what I think would look the coolest, and don't worry so much about what the growth rings are doing. This is mainly due to the fact that I twice turn most everything. But if you prefer working a piece to finished form all in one shot, the symmetric/asymmetric grain definitely is significant in the kind of warping and/or cracking you will get.

So I would say you did it right. :)

Again, very nice bowl!

Hutch

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Another piece of wood and another question.:) In an earlier post when I mentioned I had some limbs to turn, Leo Van Der Loo cautioned me about the tension and compression wood.
In this particular piece, the limb had quite a curve to it, I'm assuming up. The growth rings were wider on that side as well. Do those things always go together or just in this piece?

I cut the piece in half lengthwise so it had less curve, then split it through the pith. The larger growth rings were on one blank and narrower on the other. That would have resulted in one piece being the top of the limb and one the bottom. I turned the top or wider ringed piece. Right, wrong or no choice in this case?
The limb has been cut for a couple of years and just left leaning against the trunk so hopefully won't be terribly prone to splitting now.

Thanks as always for your thoughts.


Baxter, Yes.
Looking at a log or branch and the growth rings can tell you quite a lot about the wood, it you see, know and understand why it is that certain things are the way they are.

Your arm would grow bigger and stronger than the other one if you would have to use it to always repeatedly lift something heavy, a leaning trunk and especially vertically sticking out branches do the strengthening by growing reaction wood, in the Northern hemisphere the hardwood will get more wood on the top side of the branch and the long side of the leaning trunk, the growth rings will be wider than on the tension side.

Normally wood will shrink hardly at all lengthwise, but reaction wood can shrink quite a bit, as much as 20 times I'm told, I've turned some pieces where the wood actually teared itself apart, not split on the rim or anything like that, but literally the wood itself, anywhere, be it sides or bottom.

So yes you did right by sawing through the pith and separating the tension wood from the reaction wood :).
Nice wood Baxter, I love plum and any of the Prunus species, but you have to really slow down the drying or it will split on you :) :eek:

[Steve Vaughan]

very nice bowls you have there!

[John Keeton]

Baxter, I sure am glad you are out in front on this stuff!! Great questions, and I am learning a lot from Leo and others. As they say, I'm right behind you - keep up the charge!

I hope the bowl doesn't crack on you because it looks great! Beautiful color.

[David E Keller]

Pretty little bowl from some beautiful wood. I always to to balance the rings when cutting through the pith ala Bill Grumbine's video.

[Bernie Weishapl]

That is a pretty bowl out of some really nice wood.

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks Matt. The color on the end of the limb was striking when I cut the checked end off at Christmas, then anchorsealed it. I debated the NE question when I was studying this piece yesterday because it was anything but round. The bark had separated on the end quite a bit so I felt like it would be a struggle to keep it on. Since I had just read a post about plum being the worst when it came to splitting, I decided to play it as safe as possible. I started with the idea of just roughing but the colors were so cool, I couldn't resist taking it all the way. May not have been the best choice in the long run.

Thank you Leo, I figured you would chime in with the reason behind the reason! I was trying to think about the branches on fruit trees, and it seemed that sometimes the branches curve down, or to the left or right. So determining the top or bottom of a limb that has been previously cut requires looking at the ring pattern more than the curvature? Since you wrote "in the Northern hemisphere the hardwood will get more wood on the top side of the branch" is that different from in the Southern? Although it seemed dryer than some of the apple, when I go back out to the shop, I will add another bag!:D

Steve & John - The purple/red was fascinating though I suppose it will not last. I would like to try your finishing method John but didn't have the materials at the time. If it makes it through the drying process I may give it a shot. I have always liked fruit but I am really liking fruitwood!

David - I was remembering Bill Grumbines video as well but wasn't sure if that applied to horizontal limbs with the tension and compression wood. Apparently they are one and the same.:)

Thanks Bernie. The wood makes it! I thought about trying to do a better job finishing the bottom but didn't have good enough access to want to risk it! Thought I would try making a donut chuck sometime then maybe finish turn the bottom when dry. Remembered the cole jaws I had this morning so may unbag and try those. I have never used them correctly!

[Paul Atkins]

So trees growing at the equator would be perfectly even -----

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Paul I really don't know, The thing is softwood has the wider growth rings on the bottom, apparently, on both side of the equator, but I've been told that down under the hardwood the growth of the wider rings is opposite from here.
So if it actually has anything to do with the being on either side of the equator than yes you would be right about that, but I can't get my head around on that, so I'll keep with what I know of things up here, that's enough to get me confused as is :rolleyes:.
Here's some help for me I think :confused:

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[Baxter Smith]

Just spent a few minutes searching for the answer to the question of Northern vs Southern Hemisphere. Found lots of info confirming the difference between the way gymnosperms and angiosperms (softwoods and hardwoods) grow with respect to gravity. Nothing was ever mentioned about Northern and Southern Hemisphere differences. So until I travel to below the equator and see for myself, I'm going with the idea that down is down no matter where you are. (ie. a hardwoods gonna do what a hardwoods gonna do!):D

[Jim King]

Hardwood growth rings around the equator ( North or South) are not very clear. The trees grow year round here and rings are not generally well defined if at all..

As for limbs we dont have to many as the trees have to spend their energy going up toward the sun . I have worked some limb stock for turning and had no problems.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Hardwood growth rings around the equator ( North or South) are not very clear. The trees grow year round here and rings are not generally well defined if at all..

As for limbs we dont have to many as the trees have to spend their energy going up toward the sun . I have worked some limb stock for turning and had no problems.

Thanks for filling us in on your experience from up there Jim, I appreciate that.

I knew there was not the long rest period like we have here in the winter, but thought that the wet/dry season would make some difference in the growth of the trees, but apparently that is not the case or very little ??

In the forest here there's not the same growth anymore as was in the virgin forest, where a tree was also forced to get up there, and very little undergrowth, with clear-cutting or at least cutting many trees at once the character of the forest changes, as new seedlings are plentiful they are all more or less the same height the need to get up there isn't there anymore, and of course all kinds of other plants are shooting up and often able to grow faster than the predominant trees that were there before.
And of course we also have many trees that grow along roadsides and farming fields or just as shade trees in peoples yards, those are again not required to get tall fast, though they do look better very often than a straight trunk with only a branch or two at the very top.
Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo :)

[Jim King]

Leo:

We live in a continous rainy season. The trees here grow year round and very fast. Current thought here is that very few trees in the Amazon are over 50 years old. After about 35 years of stomping and slipping and sliding around tropical forests in Africa and here I agree with that scenario . The trees grow to the canopy and as soon as they are a bit above and the slightest breeze hits them they fall over as a 100 foot tree will have at most a 5 foot deep root system.

This certainly flies in the face of the Eco Industry pushing stories about 500 foot tall 500 year old trees but that is the way it is. They are obligated to make up good stories to keep the money coming in for thier "work" and salaries. They are another subject.

Jim

[David E Keller]

I don't know what the trees are that Jim posted, but I know I'd like to dull a few tools making them round. Pretty stuff.

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks for the pictures Jim. I can understand the hard to see growth rings but I am still wondering, on one of those hardwood horizontal branches, is the pith closer to the bottom, middle or top of the limb?
Hate to go to my grave not knowing for sure!:D

[Jim King]

Baxter:

Dont die yet, I just found a photo of a desk that was made of bloodwood branch wood cut into slices. You can see that the pith is off center but I dont know which way is up. The theory looks to hold on the pith being off center but which side I cant help yet.

That being said the pith on many perfectly vertical trees is off center also. Now what do we do ¿?

Jim

[Baxter Smith]

Still here!:D Great desk and great picture. Thanks Jim. I'm thinking that if an almost vertical tree leans a little, the side toward perfectly plumb will grow a little thicker in response to try and support it. If that is the case, a perfectly vertical tree might do the same with prevailing winds in its effort to stay upright.

Guess I will just have to wait until you cut off a limb and check it out. No rush, I plan on being around for awhile!:)