Question for the pen turners

[Ken Garlock]

I made a few pens as family Christmas presents, and the came out pretty well, IMO. So I thought I would try something other than the slim-line and Comfort pens and pencils, I bought a Churchill pen kit from a local Rockler store. The experience was been an exercise in patience, a commodity of which I was born with little.:(

I found out immediately that I needed a specific set of bushings, OK not a problem. Then I discovered that the bushing needed a specific size mandrel, larger than the one I used on the Christmas Comfort pens. So, being a good troglodyte, I ordered a new mandrel from the people in Medina MN. While preparing the order I found that I also needed a 31/64 drill bit, and a 33/64 drill bit. This is basically a stupid requirement. Why not just settle on 1/2" across the board. I ordered the two bits anyway. The bits and mandrel arrived and I quickly discovered that the new mandrel would not fit the morse taper base I already had. Off to the folks in MN again for a complete mandrel kit. Since I was ordering all this stuff for one pen kit, I also bought a second Churchill kit. Oh yes, they called for a 'B' mandrel, but my calipers don't measure in Bs or As.

I started looking around at Craft supply, Packard, and PSI, and found that every pen kit also carries an optional item of bushings for said kit. NO ONE gives a size of the bushings so that you might be able to ascertain whether you already own a bushing set.

I am beginning to think that the pen kit suppliers really don't give a hoot about what they buy for sale, just so long as they can push it out the door/mail.

My question for your learned gentlemen/ladies is Why are their no standards on the components. Why are the mandrels not in standard sizes, be it inches or millimeters? Why are the bushings not in standard sizes that fit standard mandrels? Why in the dickens does a kit use use drills that differ 2 mm in size?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Well,

There are a couple of standards Ken.

Some pen kit manufacturers use metric.....basically 7mm or 8mm.

Berea Hardwoods...uses "A" mandrels and "B" mandrel.......

Some other places like Arizona Sihouette buy their kits from Berea..so A and B apply....

Other places buy from another manufacturer so 7mm or 8mm apply....

And...the drill size difference....size really does make a difference when it comes to assembling pens and having everything fit.

Also check out CraftSupply USA for pens and kits.

[David E Keller]

I guess it can be a little confusing, but once you figure out the system, it's not bad. Basically, you need different bushings for each kind of pen you are making. Ken explained the mandrel sizing nicely already.

You might try cigar and sierra kits if you are looking for something pretty simple but with more substance than the slimline kits... just don't forget the drill bits and bushings.

You may want to look at some of the online pen kit vendors for variety and savings. The Arizonasilhouette site has a table that lists mandrel size, bushing number, and drill bits needed for any given kit they sell. No affiliation with them, but I've had good luck there in the past.

As has been mentioned before, you don't have to use a mandrel or bushings to turn pens if you are willing to use a caliper and turn each barrel between centers. Many people do it this way with good results, but I've never had the patience to try.

Good luck

[Ken Garlock]

Thanks for the quick response.:)

Ok I can accept the type A and type B mandrels, but I think mm and in. are more descriptive. Regarding drill bits, yes I have drill bits in most sizes, 7, 8, 10, even 3/8", so I am covered for the most part. My complaint about the 31/64 and 33/64 is that the kit maker could have used 1/2. Find me a common off the shelf drill bit set that contains a drill bit larger than 1/2" .

Regarding the bushings, they should be labeled by size, say, A 7mm. Type A mandrel and 7mm OD, etc.

Yes, I have bought from Craft Supplies USA, and Packard in addition to Rockler. I have yet to try PSI. I get quick delivery out of Craft Supplies, and the people at Packard are very nice to deal with. I have looked at the Berea website and will give them a try down the road. Now that I know about Arizonasilhouette, I will also investigate them. Someone mentioned a supplier in Indiana that was also good to deal with, but I forgot the company's name.

Kit complexity is not an issue so long as there are good directions in the kit packet. I am willing to tackle most anything with my Lacer Skew.:D

Thanks for the guidance.:cool:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken,

For bang for the buck, I have found Craft Supply's blanks to be the site to use.

For quality....it's hard to be Arizona Silhouette

Both sites are extremely good for customer service!

[John Terefenko]

Well come to the vortex and the world of pen turning. Kits and requirements for those kits are constantly changing so get used to it and when ever you order kits make sure you have the bushings and drill bits for them. I always order a set of bushings ( they are cheap enough when you are talking big picture. )

[Chris Stolicky]

All good advice above.

As far as the drill bit size question, you basically need a larger barrel for the cap because it needs to go over the pen.

You are learning that the first pen is always the expensive one. The others are effectively become cheaper after your initial investment.

Learning the pen kits and sizes does take a little work. Not only is there an A and a B mandrel, but some pen kits, i.e. cigars, give you the option of using either the A or B mandrel. Just get the right bushings for your mandrel.

AS and CSUSA are great places for a wide selection of quality and respectable customer service.

I have also ordered from Woodnwhimsies and Woodturningz. Both have great reputations.

Oh, on the drill bits, I learned the hard way, but if you purchase one of the "29 drill bit" packages (borgs have them), they come with most of the common 'non-letter' sized bits you need for pens. There a couple of odd sized ones like a 37/64 the really big (and pricey) pens need.

[Dan Forman]

For what it's worth, in my opinion the Churchill and El Grande (both use the same bits and bushings) are the best of the larger pens. Some of the offerings from Craft Supply are fancier, but also heavier and not as well balanced. These are by far the most comfortable pens to write with, as long as you don't post the cap (stick it on the end of the pen when you write), which throws the balance way off. I also have been very happy with Arizona Silhouette.

Dan

[Dave Halter]

Ken,
If you go to the IAP site (penturners.org) and look in the article library there is lots of kit info. There's a file in the 2009 Article folder that gives bushing dimensions and bit sizes for a lot of kits.

Dave

[Wayne Racinowski]

The statements above are just the beginning of a penturners concerns and lack of localized information. What I did initially for my self was to create a cross reference of information that I wanted for my shop, it got a little involved, but released it to the public as a PDF on IAP.

Labeled "Bushing and Tube Reference, 2009 Library".

My intention is to release this as an Excel file when it is near complete. I hope that you can use this information as a stepping stone in pen turning.

Please feel free to help me fill in the blanks of the chart,

Wayne

[Donny Lawson]

I thought of trying other pen kits but I like customizing the slimline every chance I get.I talked to a guy today that has been turning pens for years and when I showed these to him he said"I never thought those were slimlines".The best thing is there are no extra bushings to buy.Just use your imagination and see what you come up with.,Plus they sell 10 to 1 over the regular slimlines.
Donny

[Montgomery Scott]

There are only three companies that spec out pen parts: Berea Hardwoods, Craft Supply USA and Penn State Ind.

Everyone else out there is a reseller of their kits. I don't buy from PSI due to the low quality of their kits. I also don't buy kits with anything less than their TiN coated parts (except the series 2000 7mm kits from Berea) as the plating wears off too quickly otherwise.

To deal with different size mandrels or to easily adjust the length of mandrel used I bought a Beall collet chuck. It's versatile for mandrels and other things such as finials.

[Paul Douglass]

I have found this site useful on occasion. It is a cheat sheet on bits and sometime I have gotten by substituting a slightly larger or smaller bit when I didn't have the correct bit.

http://www.penventory.com/inv.pl?command=drillbitcheatform

And Wayne, I was just looking at your file on IAP this AM. That was a lot of work putting that together. I'm sure I will be looking at it often. Thank you

It was listed on the home page on the right had side.

[Paul Douglass]

Oh ya, while you are buyong make sure you have a 60' live center for you tailstock. The list never ends with pen turning.

[Allen Neighbors]

Ken,
On Penn State's Home Page, top center, is a link to Instructions and Manuals. If you'll click on that, the instruction page gives the sizes - ID and OD of their bushings. I don't know about other sites.
(I can't afford to buy a lot of the other, more expensive types of kits from some of the other sites, because they won't sell for what I'd have to get for them -where I sell. I live in an agricultural/ranching community, and they just don't buy higher priced pens.)

[Rick Gibson]

Get yourself both a 60 deg. live and dead center. The point on the standard wood lathe center is to sharp and will move around in the hole in the end of the mandrel eventually ruining it and could result in out of round pens. There is a guy over on IAP (JohnnyCNC) that makes excellent bushings for the pens. They go between the centers and a mandrel is no longer needed. They are a little more expensive but worth it if you are going to be making a lot of pens. They also have a pretty extensive library on penturning

[Paul Douglass]

Penn State use to have a free CD on penturning. Well worth the price. you just had to request it. Don't know if it is still available. It actually is pretty good.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Allen.

Thanks for the info about PSI references. I will for sure check it out today.:cool:

Hi Rick. Yes, a 60 deg. center is on the list. I just purchased a One-Way live center when it was on sale at Hartville Tool. I see they have just introduced a pan makers 60 deg. point for it. For $8, that is probably the cheapest thing you can get from One-Way.:D

Hi Paul. I'll check out the free DVD when browsing the PSI site.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken I have the Oneway livecenter. The 60 deg point works great.

[Matt Ranum]

PSI still has the dvd, I just got it back in December and is a good introduction to pen turning. Just have to pay the shipping.

[Ken Garlock]

PSI still has the dvd, I just got it back in December and is a good introduction to pen turning. Just have to pay the shipping.

Matt, it is even better than that, free shipping. I ordered one. I think this is like giving the teenager a hit of dope just to try it....:eek:

[Rick Gibson]

Woodsmith also has a podcast you can download, almost an hour long. There are a few questionable practices being done but all in all not bad and it is free.

http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/10/09/podcast-26-turning-pens-on-the-lather-from-start-to-finish/