Paring chisels bevel angles - what's your fancy?

[Andy Hsieh]

For chisels that you use for only paring, What angle do you use?

I have an old set of 2 Cherries that were ground about 20 degrees - I thought they were great but felt that the edges broke down a bit faster than I would have expected. Today I started the arduous task of resetting the bevel to 25 degrees. Wondering if that is too much though for paring chisels?

Thoughts?

TIA
andy

[Matthew Bradburn]

It's actually a trivial task to increase the bevel angle with a micro-bevel, it's decreasing the angle that's arduous. I'd say increase the angle by whatever small increment you can until you're happy with the edge durability.

[Mark Maleski]

In the sharpening class I took 2 years ago, and that served as my gateway into successful woodworking after quite a bit of frustration, my instructor demonstrated his paring chisels at 20 degrees. Because I don't have a dedicated set of paring chisels nor the experience that would come with them, I suppose you should discount my opinion quite a bit. But because I thought so highly of this class and this instructor (and the ease with which he pared deeply into a block of maple with said 20-degree bezel chisel) I'm somewhat dissatisfied when I see paring chisels sold with a higher grind. Blue Spruce's long paring chisels, for example, would appeal to me highly but for this (they're sold at 30 degrees).

I'm glad you posted the question, I'm hoping some of our more experienced members will chime in. I'm as curious as you are. I've also found that many paring chisel descriptions don't state their initial grind, or recommend a honing angle. I'm hoping others will share their experience with specific brands and/or types of steel.

[harry strasil]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/skewchisels.jpg

Smooth cut no matter what!

[David Gendron]

I use 25 on my old stanley 720 and a few degre as a micro beveled. I also have a set of BS DT paring chisels and they do come at 30 degres abd i hone them with the same micro bevel as the stanley and they work realy realy well... I read some where that a realy low beveled angle on A2 chisels is not recomended( that is what BS use for steel)
And that O1 works better for verry low bevel angle like 20 or less degres!?!?

[Brian Ashton]

I don't know if it's already been said but the perfect angle is more dependent on your chisels. I have a set of expensive Ashley Isle bench chisels that can't take to low of an angle without the edge rolling. Where as my Ashley Isle carving chisels can take a very shallow angle and hold up well. I have a set of chisels I made myself out of O1 tool steel that can handle a fairly shallow angle and hold up well as does a cheap pair of Marples chisels I ground into left and right skews... I couldn't actually tell you what the angle of any of my chisels are as I grind them over time to where they seem to hold up best while allowing for clean cutting... They're probably different between set also. I know the angles are quite shallow on some though because the bevel length looks on some of them to be over double the thickness of the chisel but that's as close to measuring as I get.

[Andy Hsieh]

I have read people with paring bevels as low as 15-17 degrees.
seems really low but was not sure on edge retention regardless of steel type at such a low angle

don't even get me started on looking for answers on paring angles for soft or hard woods....

[Mark Maleski]

I don't know if it's already been said but the perfect angle is more dependent on your chisels.

That's only true if you have chisel(s) in hand. If one is interested in acquiring chisels (raises hand), the perfect angle should be dependent on the wood. I suppose one could say lower is always better, but once you factor in the limitation of the commonly manufactured steel for chisel application we should be able to come up with a practical answer (e.g., a number or a range of numbers at least).

[Jeff Heath]

I have a set of Two Cherries ground at 20°, with a 2° - 3° microbevel. I don't know exactly, as I freehand it. They work just fine. The act of paring shouldn't be breaking down the edge of your chisels so quickly.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I ground the bevels on my recently restored James Swan paring chisels at 20 degrees and they seem to be holding up fine.

[Derek Cohen]

Some years ago I was pondering whether to get the Blue Spruce chisels for dovetail paring, with my doubts centred on the 30 degree bevel with which they come (being A2 steel). Then I recalled that my sharpest blades were my Japanese chisels, and the bench variety have a 30 degree edge. Once I could get my head around that, I started to ignore how low I could go with paring chisels. It is not how low you can go, but how sharp you can get and how long you can keep the dge this way.

My Bergs and Japanese parers are all at 25 degrees. My Japanese Bench, Japanese dovetail and Blue Spruce dovetail are all at 30 degrees.

The other thing you want to consider is that you will want to use parers bevel down as well. This means that you do not want a secondary bevel as this removes the coplanarity of the bevel face.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Ashton]

That's only true if you have chisel(s) in hand. If one is interested in acquiring chisels (raises hand), the perfect angle should be dependent on the wood. I suppose one could say lower is always better, but once you factor in the limitation of the commonly manufactured steel for chisel application we should be able to come up with a practical answer (e.g., a number or a range of numbers at least).

If you want an angle range I'd say 25 to 30 for most bench work is the go depending on hardness of wood. 15 to 25 for paring. 15 being the very edge of the limit for nice softwoods and such.

When you acquire a set you can then play with the angle a bit and find where the steel works best. When you come across some harder woods you may need to hone the angle a bit steeper to compensate and vise versa. Over time you'll most likely add many odd chisels to your set. And over time some will stand out as as the ones you always grab for most work. My Ashley Isles are like that. They aren't the best at holding an edge but they're the ones I grab the most.

I have a set up that lets me sharpen the chisels in seconds so I don't mind having edges that dull quicker but you'll also have to factor in how much sharpening you can tolerate.

Sorry my answers aren't all that specific but woodwork is like that. Each piece of wood you pick up, even if of the same species will have widely varying grain and hardness throughout so you tend to have to find happy mediums.

[Keith Christopher]

I set all mine to 20 , I just like the cuts better. requires much less pressure and you don't have to 'pound' them with a mallet, just a few light taps. Also honing them is a breeze.

[Andy Hsieh]

Thanks for the responses. since I changed all my 2 cherries to 25 I will try them for a bit and see how they go. From a visual point I can see how 20 is nice for paring but for some reason my edges did not hold up too well at 20 but maybe I was expecting too much. I have a few one offs (vintage) that maybe I will try at 20 and see how that goes with them. I try to keep all my sets at set angles and not have too many specialized one off angles.

I understand not needing a microbevel for paring chisels and I too saw that the Blue Spruce were set at 30 - I figured that was an A2 steel equivalent for paring. Derek - your bevel dilemma for the blue spruce reminds me of your LN103 plane experience thinking it was a 102 :)

I use the MK2 jig to hand sharpen on a DMT 2 sided to soft arkansas and then - depending on my mood I will either go 4000/8000 Norton Water or I might just go Hard ark to black ark oilstone but when I changed the bevel, it took me about 30 minutes per chisel. For someone with not alot of time, resetting bevel angles is a time killer so I hope the 25 on the 2 cherries works out.

[Jim Koepke]

I can not remember if it was Franz Klaus at some show someone asked what angle he used on his chisels and his answer was, "sharp."

My chisels are all over the place. Literally, some are in a drawer others are in a box and some are in another drawer...

Oh, the bevel angle, those are also all over the place. One of my Buck Brothers, a 1 inch, has the same bevel as when it came to me of about 15°. It cuts fine. I do not know what magic was in that chisel when it was made, but the edge seems to hold fine and I have made some large dovetails with it and it is one of the go to chisels in the shop. On a lot of other chisels used for paring, the angle is 25°.

If one of my chisels has a micro bevel, it usually is not on purpose. It makes them hard to use bevel down and I do that often.

jim

[James Taglienti]

Sounds like we have got something in common jim, my bevel angles are for the most part wild as well. I grind my chisels on a standard bench grinder, and since they are a variety of brands, they are a variety of thicknesses. Therefore the bevel angle is dictated by how far the chisel tip travels up the arc of the wheel. a thicker chisel creates a more acute angle. The only chisels that get special treatment are my paring chisels, which i tilt backwards on the rest and grind quasi-freehand.

[Preston Baxter]

A lot depends on if you will be paring end grain and the wood species. When paring long grain and cross grain I can get away with a 20 deg honing angle, but it will not hold up very well cutting end grain.
As a general rule all my Paring Chisels are ground at 20 deg. and honed at 25 deg. My Firmer Chisels that are used with a mallet are ground at 25 and honed at 30 deg.

[Leon Jester]

For chisels that you use for only paring, What angle do you use?

I have an old set of 2 Cherries that were ground about 20 degrees - I thought they were great but felt that the edges broke down a bit faster than I would have expected. Today I started the arduous task of resetting the bevel to 25 degrees. Wondering if that is too much though for paring chisels?

Thoughts?

TIA
andy

I grind mine to 25 deg. and hone without a bevel, as someone said, makes them easier to use bevel down.

I've got a beater Stanley that I ground to about 15 deg for some reason, last used it to pare off dowels on a project; worked fine.

[Sandy Stanford]

For chisels that you use for only paring, What angle do you use?

I have an old set of 2 Cherries that were ground about 20 degrees - I thought they were great but felt that the edges broke down a bit faster than I would have expected. Today I started the arduous task of resetting the bevel to 25 degrees. Wondering if that is too much though for paring chisels?

Thoughts?

TIA
andy

25* is absolutely the highest you'd ever go for a paring chisel. In a delicate paring operation, the pay-off pitch of woodworking, where the joint is either going to fit or not fit based on the paring then edge longevity should be a secondary concern. If you've oversawn the joint substantially don't expect the chisel to carry the weight of that mistake, rather, fix your sawing technique so that what's left only needs a bona fide bit of paring. Removing a strong 16th to an 1/8th is not paring; it is, relatively speaking, hogging off material and a chisel set up for paring will not hold its edge for that much stock removal. Methodically removing tissue specimens is paring. And a low angle works best. Take it to the bank.

Guys sawing way wide of the line (again, relatively speaking) and working back with a chisel have corrupted the process. That working back is not paring. Learn to saw and you won't need to bludgeon off a bunch of material with a mallet and 35* chisel - a blunt instrument when compared to a paring chisel.