Tool Selection Going Forward

[Bob Haskett]

Thanks to all of you that helped me in my very lengthy table saw thread. I have been tweaking it in the garage all day. I now have another question for all of you. I am starting to look at what projects I want to start in the next few weeks and it seems like the majority of them call for tools I do not have. That is not so hard to believe, considering all I have are socket wrenches, screw drivers, a couple of new rulers I bought accurate to 64th of an inch, and my brand spankin new table saw. Basically, I have nothing. About as newbie and tooless as you can be. I got interested in all this from my brother in law, who had a full shop. Sadly, he and my sister moved to another state last month. So here is my question. I need lots of tools. Do you mind helping me prioritize them so I can outfit my shop in the correct order? It has become VERY clear to me that the jointer/planer argument will go on and on, but I would like your opinions. Here is what I was thinking and maybe you guys can give input to my list.

1. Table Saw - Purchased
2. 1.5 or 2HP Dust Collector (I have read this needs to be a priority for health reasons) - Estimated Amount to Spend = $250
3. Planer - Ridgid R4330 or DW724 or G0689 at roughly $400
4. Jointer - JP0610 or G0654 at $425
5. Router - Hitachi M12V2 or another recommended option for a table?
6. Oribital Sander - Possibly the Ridgid R2611 6 inch Orbital Sander?
7. Drill Press
8. At this point it gets a little foggy so I could use some help.

I would like input on tool choices and order.

[Hugh Jardon]

How much money do you have? No, seriously?

You'll need something to get the chips & dust out of the R4511, even a (RIDGID) shopvac would do for now, you'll need one eventually.

Get safety glasses, a decent blade (or three) for the 4511, featherboards, pushsticks, clamps, glue, gluebrushes, decent measuring tools (angle, length, squareness), did I say clamps and safety glasses?

Then go and buy some wood and cut the crap out of it. Practice making 23/32 inch strips, resetting the fence every time. Make a simple plywood box or two. miter the edges to make it seem like solid wood. Rip up some 2x4s and trim off the plywood that can't be hidden.

THEN, figure out what you'd really like to make, and buy the tools for it. Me? Buy them all. At HD prices, I have come to the conclusion that I have more money than time, so just buy them all. At Powermatic prices, I'll wreck all of my RIDGID stuff first, then replace what's broken or outgrown.

[Bob Haskett]

How much money do you have? No, seriously?

You'll need something to get the chips & dust out of the R4511, even a (RIDGID) shopvac would do for now, you'll need one eventually.

Get safety glasses, a decent blade (or three) for the 4511, featherboards, pushsticks, clamps, glue, gluebrushes, decent measuring tools (angle, length, squareness), did I say clamps and safety glasses?

Then go and buy some wood and cut the crap out of it. Practice making 23/32 inch strips, resetting the fence every time. Make a simple plywood box or two. miter the edges to make it seem like solid wood. Rip up some 2x4s and trim off the plywood that can't be hidden.

THEN, figure out what you'd really like to make, and buy the tools for it. Me? Buy them all. At HD prices, I have come to the conclusion that I have more money than time, so just buy them all. At Powermatic prices, I'll wreck all of my RIDGID stuff first, then replace what's broken or outgrown.

I don't have money coming out of my ears or anything, but I have enough where I can buy a tool a month or so as long as they arent crazy prices. I cant go out and buy them all at once or anything. I would like to kind of stay in the price ranges of some of the tools I suggested.

I just figured if I am going to spend 100 on a shop vac I might as well drop 150 more and get a dust collector I thought I would eventually need.

As far as this goes: "Get safety glasses, a decent blade (or three) for the 4511, featherboards, pushsticks, clamps, glue, gluebrushes, decent measuring tools (angle, length, squareness), did I say clamps and safety glasses?"

I have SOME clamps and safety glasses, and a good blade (this one:http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020099/29292/Freud-Fusion-10-x-40T-x-58-Thin-Kerf-Saw-Blade.aspx) and measuring tools.

As far as what I am planning to make. That would be a crosscut sled, Norms Router Table, an herb table for my wife, a crib, a changing table. That is what I have my eyes set on at this point.

[Hugh Jardon]

Glad about the glasses. I have a particular issue with that. Haste and stupidity led to a chip in my eye because I wasn't wearing them (even though I had a pair).

I see what you are saying wrt the dust collector, and I agree, but the collector on its own isn't enough. You need decent filters/bags, tubing (and that stuff isn't cheap) etc. You'll want your collection network where your tools are, and that kind of depends on what tools you have, and where they fit best. Moving dust hoses around gets old very quickly for some (me!).

Do yourself a favor, make something nice for the wife/family as early as you can. Before the stuff for your shop, if possible. The crib sounds perfect.

[scott spencer]

Bob - A lot depends on what you need to do.

Everyone's methods and preferences are different, but I find a router to be one of the most versatile tools you can get. Since the features that make a router desirable for table use are different than those that are best suited for hand use, most of us end up with at least two, so you may want to give thought to getting two separate routers as opposed to one that will do everything.

A planer offers the capability of dimensioning rough stock. It's a great tool to use in tandem with a jointer, but the planer can be coaxed into doing some of the tasks of the jointer (like flattening a face), but the reverse is not true, so if I could only have one, it'd be the planer...then hopefully a jointer.

Dust collection becomes a serious consideration pretty quickly in this hobby...it's better for you health, and simply more convenient to work if you have one.

A DP and a BS have their place too, but a hand drill and a jig saw can pinch hit if necessary.

A good workbench is not only an important tool, it's a great project. :)

Clamps are your friend. It's easy to spend a fortune to duplicate what Norm's got, but there are bargains too. The HF Pittsburg bar clamps (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96210) are a great deal and go on sale for 50% about every other week...I've got a dozen or so of them. A few Quickgrip type handclamps are handy, as are a couple of the more expensive parallel bar clamps (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18181).

All in due time right?!

Tom Hintz's book, "The New Woodworker (http://www.newwoodworker.com/bokstore.html)" is a great read from a fellow forum dweller.

[Hugh Jardon]

Talking of clamps, I notice you're in TN. My parents-in-law live in Sevier county, and there's a store called "Workshop Tools", they have a couple branches in TN. Anyway, they have GREAT deals on Irwin clamps, I bought 12 of them for $100 or so over the Christmas period. Something like 50-60% of "normal retail".

[Stephen Edwards]

Ditto on the HF clamps. I started out with them many years ago and still use them a lot, even though I now have other, better clamps. Well, I won't even say better, just a bit smoother and easier to use sometimes. For the money, the clamps that Scott suggested can't be beat for someone starting out.

Dust Collection: There are many threads and many happy owners here of the 2 HP DC system, myself included. This DC unit is one of their "gems". Be patient and you can get that unit for $160ish or better.

A decent electric drill, corded or cordless is in order, too.

I've heard of some really good deals lately on the Ridgid jointers in some locations, too.

I would consider other routers for table use.

One day at a time......

[Russ Jensen]

I hate to make your life more complex, but I'd probably add a sliding mitre saw to that list. Also, if you are making cabinets or furniture boxes GET A KREG JIG! you wont regret it.

IMO Id rank need in this order:

1. Table saw - with a really good blade like forrest woodworker or a freud glue line rip you can likely forego the jointer for awhile - I have a 6 1/2 jointer and NEVER use it. - Align your saw - The local woodcraft in my town will rent you a dial caliper for a few bucks so you can adjust your blade and fence to miter slot within a couple thousandths of an inch - didnt see what kind of saw you bought, but contractor PALS make the job easy on a table mounted trunion - if you have a cabinet saw you dont need them as the trunions are cabinet mounted

2. Router - Can get really good deals on Freud FT2000/2200 - clunky, but 3 HP so it has power to do anything - even spin raised panel bits

3. Good router table - watch Rockler for sales on their laminate tops - you can always make a good frame out of 2x4's glued and screwed together.

4. Power mitre box - Sears (yes sears) has a 10" compound slider that you can get on sale often for $159 - join the free Craftsman club to get member discounts - Im not in love with Craftsman tools anymore, but its an acceptable saw at a great price point.

5. Good orbital hand held disc sander

6. If working with rough stock - a planer is essential -

7. hand held drills are fine, but a drill press would be next for me.

8. Kreg Jig!

9. Dust Collector - I just got one after 20+ years in this hobby - used to just wear a good dust mask and goggles before that - watch craigslist - you can find them all day for $150 - I chose a Jet DC1100 - 1.5HP motor (biggest you can get on 110 - my only 220 circuit is used by my Grizzly cabinet saw) - Not to be elitist, but 1000 CFM should be a bare minimum.

As far a small power tools, I have grown fond of Ridgid. I have a 2HP router (I leave my Freud in the router table), Belt Sander, Spindle sander and finish nailer - send in a card and get a LIFETIME warranty - good tools Great warranty.

I have no affiliation with any of these brands - I mention them only because of value for the money - I started just like you - but I got my tools at garage sales and friends of friends back in the day when I had everything Craftsman - It can get really expensive if you let it, but there is no hobby more rewarding

Good luck in your quest for tools and enjoy everything you create. Make sure you fish for compliments from your wife too. They love that :)

[Bob Haskett]

but I find a router to be one of the most versatile tools you can get. Since the features that make a router desirable for table use are different than those that are best suited for hand use, most of us end up with at least two, so you may want to give thought to getting two separate routers as opposed to one that will do everything.

A planer offers the capability of dimensioning rough stock. It's a great tool to use in tandem with a jointer, but the planer can be coaxed into doing some of the tasks of the jointer (like flattening a face), but the reverse is not true, so if I could only have one, it'd be the planer...then hopefully a jointer.

Dust collection becomes a serious consideration pretty quickly in this hobby...it's better for you health, and simply more convenient to work if you have one.


Are any of the tools I listed above decent picks for the router, planer, and jointer?

[Mark Maleski]

My approach: Emphasis is placed on building something ahead of tool acquisition (heresy, I know). What do you want to build next? Which of those tools you list will you need? Get those.

Can't afford those? Can you modify your build to use stopgap tools? I recently needed to resaw for a project but lacked the bandsaw/quality handsaw to do it. I used a $10 stanley disposable handsaw with plastic handle from the borg and did it by hand - it was a PITA and I wasted some stock thickness (could've resawed the same board twice with better accuracy), but I completed the project.

No way to use a stopgap tool on the project? Can you pick a project that uses the ones you already have or can afford? Put the other project on the backburner, and use as motivation to keep building.

Just a suggestion, don't meant to come across as a purist. I like buying tools too.

[Van Huskey]

I know everyone likes to plan out purchases for tools, it is just fun to do. My advice don't bother with a plan to buy, plan to build instead. What is your next project what tools would most helpful for it, then your "nest" purchase is already mapped out for you.

Now I'll give some ideas despite my advice above...:o

In a do as I say not as I did moment get the DC next. Though HF seems to make a decent smaller DC take a look at Grizzly they are still very well priced and you have more options.

Buy clamps, you will NEVER have enough, if you ever think you do you need about twice that many. Lots of F clamps lots, some one hand quick grips and some parallel clamps. My advice NEVER go cheap on clamps, you will just replace them over time or use them only when you run out of good ones. Bessey, Jet, Jorgensen all make excellent clamps. For F clamps look for ones with a clutch. For parallel clamps I love Jet mainly for the quick release. Grizzly has good deals on both a Jorgensen and Bessey Tradesman set which which gets you where you are going quickly. Keep in mind clamp costs add up quickly but they are a fundamental, you can cut a curve with a jig saw and forgo a BS for a bit, try clamping with another tool...

Next you said you were going to build a router table, good. If routers were free I bet 99% of woodowrkers would have a PC 7518 motor in one of the high quality lift but instead they choose to charge us $600+ dollars for the combo so my advice is get a Bosch 1617EVSPK not a 3+ hp monster BUT put it in the plunge base use it is the table (it is one of the few you can adjust above the table, not perfect but it works) then when you move up to the ideal 7518 you pull it out have a two base router that is light enough to use handheld. Leave yourself room to grow.

The final 2 cents here is you talk about adding a tool a month, consider not doing it. Save for three or four months and buy a life time tool, if you continue in the hobby it will save you long term, if not the money you get back from one excellent tool will be much more than 3-4 lower quality tools.

[Keith Westfall]

Basically, I have nothing. About as newbie and tooless as you can be. I got interested in all this from my brother in law, who had a full shop.



Bob,

From the other end of the table...

My first "table saw" was a Craftsman 7 1/4" Skill Saw (present from the wife) bolted to the bottom of a table! Fence was clamped where needed and away you go. This will probably cause lots of comments, but I made a lot of stuff for the house that worked well.

Certainly couldn't produce quality cabinets, but then I didn't have the skill to do it anyway, so it didn't matter.

Then I moved up to a Craftsman 9in table saw (complete with stamped wings and a fence that well, really wasn't) but still continued to build and learn. Perhaps the learning curve was a lot greater than it should have been, but I was having fun!

Though it would be nice, I don't believe that one has to start out with a $2000 table saw, a $ 1800 band saw, 12" plus jointer and matching planer, etc etc. I wish I had these things, but if I had to wait until I got them (read afford) I still wouldn't be able to make any sawdust.

I now have a new last fall Ridged 10 inch saw (CI Top), and older 6 : Craftsman jointer, older 14" 'import' band saw, new SCMS, new drill press, new oscillating spindle sander, and a used 13' lunch box planer. Not sure how to use them all properly yet but am learning.

None are suitable for production, but good enough to allow the grandkids to "help" make something.

If you are earning a living with them, buy the best. Otherwise buy what you can afford and get at it.

A lot of the creekers here turn out some pretty fine work, and many of them seem to have the tools to do it. I would be surprised if many of the newbies, no matter what tools they have, would be able to produce some of the work that is done on here.

There is a lot to learn here, and many are willing to share, but as I said at the start, I'm not convinced that you need a $2000 saw, to learn how to cut a board...

Any more than we need a $60,000 car to learn how to drive...

Only my opinion.

[Billy Trinh]

I was on a similar project build path like you not so long ago. (finished router table, crib, changing table). Since you have a budget per month for tools and don't really have much tools yet, I'd hold off on the big power tools and focus on the small tools that would help you finish your projects and build up your shop from there.

You don't need jointer/planer to finish the things you are planning to do. Mostly material you'll use for these are plywood, s4s 3/4" stock readily available. Get them once you already have the other basic tools

Things that I found really useful for your projects that mostly already said above:
Cutting: table saw you already got, hand saw
Profiles/Trim/curves/templates: router + jigsaw + a decent set of router bits
Finishing: Orbit sander, belt sander, finishing supply
Joinery/Fastener: drill, impact driver, kreg jig (great for quick joinery), drill press for accurate holes, dowel jig, some clamps, a vise
Shop safety: dust collector/shopvac, safety gear, masks, etc.

Once you have the basics, feel free to splurge on whatever big power tools you think you need :).

I would work on basic shop furniture before house furniture as they'll help you with all future projects. Cross cut sled, Router table, sturdy assembly table/bench are good start that you'll use constantly.

[scott spencer]

Are any of the tools I listed above decent picks for the router, planer, and jointer?

Just about all of them are solid choices, but I'm not familiar with the Griz planer you listed. I like a lot of Grizzly tools, but it seems that their lower priced planers often don't offer any advantages over other good choices like those you mentioned...the Delta 22-580 or TP400 would also be decent choices at the right price.

For a table router look for variable speed, above table features, and ample power...typically 11-15 amps, preferably 15 (skip the HP ratings). The M12V2 is a solid bargain on sale...sometimes dropping below $150. The Freud FT2000/FT2200 is also a well proven bargain, but note that neither of these has any above table convenience features, and both of those Freuds have a small throat opening (that Hitachi might have a small opening too), so work arounds are needed for 3" bits. The Freud FT3000 is loaded with above table features, but tacks on another $100. The Freud FT1700 has the same above table features in a 13 amp router...often a very good deal, just not as powerful...will still do occasional raised panels. The big Triton may have some good above table features and has been on sale for ~ $180. The Milwaukee 5626 is a well liked beast, as is the PC7518, Bosch 1619, and DeWalt 625...none have anything more than height adjustments from above the table though (not sure why manufacturers haven't seen the light on that! :rolleyes:) Other smaller routers like the Milwaukee 5616, Bosch 1617, PC692, or Triton are good medium powered table routers.

[Van Huskey]

Are any of the tools I listed above decent picks for the router, planer, and jointer?


Something just hit me, Woodcraft has the Freud RTS5000 router table combo for $399. Comes with the excellent FT3000VCE router that has complete above table control and change, it is a 3 1/4hp beast. The fence has a very cool feature, it has independent infeed/outfeed micro adjust, which makes it really easy to joint the edge of a board which could be very useful before you get a jointer. When you do build the router table you can just take the router and plate out and sell the fence/top/legs or you could transfer the the top and fence as well maybe making the fence longer and taller with some t-track in it. Quite frankly this is a pretty good bargain since the combo is on Amazon for 699 and the router alone is 349.

[glenn bradley]

I hate to make your life more complex, but I'd probably add a sliding mitre saw to that list. Also, if you are making cabinets or furniture boxes GET A KREG JIG! you wont regret it.

But wait. Let's make it even more complicated :). I haven't used my miter saw in over 2 years although I have the stand and bells and whistles from when I thought I was going to be doing that kind of woodworking. My point is; as others have noted, use your patience and spend wisely.

You don't need the exact tool for the job for each and every project. I use power and hand tools. I am no Neander but a good set of chisels, a block plane and an inexpensive pull saw will do a lot of things.

[Bryan Slimp]

I'm surprised no one suggested a good block plane and maybe a decent #4 type.

Both have been helpful for face frames for me.