FRUSTRATED! Epilog changing home

[doug king]

Not sure what is going on, I have had my laser for over a month, made hundreds of items... Was in the middle of a project last night and I notice that on the second pass of rastering on a project that the whole artwork had shifted over about halfway down... I scratched my head, threw the bad piece out, checked home which is now exactly the same amount offset to the right as the artwork is, I reset it and scratched my head... It ran all day just fine...

Fast forward to tonight....

I have a large piece of granite that I am working on for our church, I am on the second pass and everything is looking FANTASTIC, I turned around and worked on the workbench... About 2 minutes later I turn around and guess what everthing has shifted to the right about and inch and a half and now the granite is screwed....

I will be calling Epilog in the morning, anyone have any ideas? I have searched but can't find anything on the net....

Doug

[Kim Vellore]

I have heard this often, The reasons
1) Dirty encoder strip or
2) Bad ribbon cable on the X axis

Kim

[doug king]

Well its definately not dirty, I clean it every other day... still looks brand new... Where is this encoder strip you speak of?

[Dan Hintz]

Well its definately not dirty, I clean it every other day... still looks brand new... Where is this encoder strip you speak of?
<chuckle> I assume if you don't know where it is, you've never cleaned it. I don't know how old your machine is, but if it's seen some dirty substrates (wood, plastic, etc.), it may be due for a good cleaning. Look under the top cap of the carriage rail... clear strip that goes across the entire rail.

[Frank Corker]

Doug the encoder strip where you may have dirt is located under the gantry head cover, just above the lens.

http://www.epiloglaser.com/tl_linearencoder.htm

for cleaning the encoder strip.

Get your manual from here and I suggest as Dan hinted you look to see what is required from you as the user
http://www.epiloglaser.com/laser_manuals.htm

[AL Ursich]

That is a nice link Frank !!!!

Thanks,


AL

[doug king]

<chuckle> I assume if you don't know where it is, you've never cleaned it. I don't know how old your machine is, but if it's seen some dirty substrates (wood, plastic, etc.), it may be due for a good cleaning. Look under the top cap of the carriage rail... clear strip that goes across the entire rail.

Your assumption is incorrect, just because I don't know the name of it doesn't mean that I didn't clean it. I followed the instructions on cleaning to a T... Do you know the actual technical name of everything on your car or do you just know how to clean it and use it?

Assumptions can often be very wrong.....

[Peck Sidara]

Doug,

Did you get a hold of technical support this morning and is everything back up and running? If not, are parts on their way?

[doug king]

Doug,

Did you get a hold of technical support this morning and is everything back up and running? If not, are parts on their way?

It has been in Intermittant issue over the past couple of days, I am going to clean it again in a few minutes...

One thing I know to be true out of this ordeal is that I have confirmation that I purchased the right product... I usually work all night ( a personal preference) and get to sleep about 5am for a few hours each morning then get up about 11am and get back to work again...

This morning I woke to a voicemail on my cell phone from Engraving Concepts who I purchased my laser from, I had an email too asking if I resolution on this problem that I posted... How refreshing it is to see a company that was so proactive to my needs. Someone there read the thread and contacted me! I know that we will get this irritating problem fixed but more importantly I will have support in the future if I need it...

THANK YOU Epilog and Engraving Concepts...

Doug

[Dan Hintz]

Doug,

I was joking, lighten up. Most people who dig deep enough into their machines to clean the encoder strip know what it is by that point... something went wrong and someone suggested cleaning the encoder strip, that's how people learn about it.



BTW, I do know what everything is called on my car, from the A-pillar to the A-arm, and the cam shaft to the cam follower. But I enjoy cars...

[doug king]

Doug,

I was joking, lighten up. Most people who dig deep enough into their machines to clean the encoder strip know what it is by that point... something went wrong and someone suggested cleaning the encoder strip, that's how people learn about it.



BTW, I do know what everything is called on my car, from the A-pillar to the A-arm, and the cam shaft to the cam follower. But I enjoy cars...


I'm pretty light, I know you were joking... it was a long night and I was tired when I typed the message.... Sorry if I came across wrong.. I have made a living always having the answers... This is the first "Job" I have ever had that I wasnt the Subject Matter Expert so I am not used to being dependent on others... I watched all the videos before I got my laser, had artwork, plans, all sorts of things like that then to be somewhat stuck at 3am was not in my schedule...

I did pull the cover off again and cleaned it again, nothing visible was on the Qtips so maybe there was just a small piece in the wrong place... We will see what happens over the next few days...

Thanks again all for offering the links and tips... I need all the help I can get, one day I will be able to offer something back to you...

Doug

[Dan Hintz]

Check the connection to the encoder strip sensor, too...a bad connection (or sensor) would have the same effect as a dirty strip.

[Bill Jermyn]

Also try reversing the ribbon cable.

[Jeanette Brewer]

THANK YOU Epilog and Engraving Concepts...

Doug,

That's why we're here to help when/if we can! Thank YOU for your business. We're looking forward to working with you for many years to come.

[Scott Shepherd]

How refreshing it is to see a company that was so proactive to my needs. Someone there read the thread and contacted me!

For the life of me, I will never understand why this forum isn't jam packed with reps and techs from companies. I also don't understand why laser manufactures don't advertise here either.

There are literally 100's and 100's of laser owners here and so many people that are looking for lasers go to google and Sawmill Creek comes up at the top of the list. It's one of the first places so many people looking for lasers come to see about machines and get educated.

Yet you can count on one hand, maybe going into the second hand, how many people like Jeanette and her company are actively using this forum to help customers and build relationships.

Great job Jeanette! That's what a company that takes $20,000 from you is supposed to act like! Well done!

[doug king]

Back to frustrated again.... Since my first post I have cleaned the machine as instructed and things have been doing okay. I havent had to do anything with multiple passes since the last granite debacle. I have worked on wood, acrylic, I have made dog tags and done some aluminum but nothing that required more than 1 pass.

I wanted to get this piece completed for the church that I am working for, I put in a second piece of granite tonight and the first pass was beautiful! Crisp clear defined lines and I was very excited... I started the second pass and everything lined up until about 2 inches down and the lines moved over just a small amount, maybe a 1/16 of an inch, then about 1 inch on down the thing jumped over about 1/8 of an inch wasting yet another pieces of very expensive granite.....

So we know the machine is clean, so it looks like a call to Epilog in the morning....

Here are a couple of pictures to show what it is doing...

138076

138077

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Have you tried flipping the ribbon cable on the x-axis? That is a temporary solution until you can order a new one.

[doug king]

Have you tried flipping the ribbon cable on the x-axis? That is a temporary solution until you can order a new one.

Order a new one, this laser is only about 2 months old....

[Kim Vellore]

Order a new one, this laser is only about 2 months old....
Doug,
The ribbon cable could be loose, the connector holding the cable could have a bad/intermittent connection. Does it always happen in the second pass and at the same location? Are you rastering the same file twice. usually with bad connection it tends to shift and stay shifted.

Kim

[doug king]

Doug,
The ribbon cable could be loose, the connector holding the cable could have a bad/intermittent connection. Does it always happen in the second pass and at the same location? Are you rastering the same file twice. usually with bad connection it tends to shift and stay shifted.

Kim

Well the last two attempts at doing second pass work this is what has occurred. 1st pass was perfect, the second pass started good but about 1/2 inch down it shifted ever so slightly to the right, about 2 inches below that it moved another 1/8 to 1/4 inch to the right..... I will check the cable, needless to say its getting old and expensive.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

I've had brand new cables arrive bad right out of the package. I wouldn't rule out a 2 month old cable having problems.

When my cable went bad, at first I only noticed what you are seeing during large engraving projects and I thought it was a dirty encoder strip. As time went by, even short projects were bad and everthing shifted to the right.

[Dan Hintz]

Are you sending the same file twice, or are you reprinting from what's already in the laser's memory?

[doug king]

Are you sending the same file twice, or are you reprinting from what's already in the laser's memory?

What is in the laser memory, but common sense tells us there is something wrong when it goes for 1/2 inch right on track then starts to shift over... It did it twice and you can very easily see that the job was on track....

[Dan Hintz]

If you've ruled out a faulty motor/connector issue, I would start to suspect the controller (mainboard) going flaky. If it never fails on the initial etch, but running a file from memory fails at some point, it would lead me to believe memory is getting corrupted.

[Bruce Volden]

Doug, I know you have cleaned the encoder strip. However, once I had this same type of trouble and discovered I had a small "dust bunny" in the contrast reader! The encoder strip is monitored by the contrast reader and it's optics. It is a slot type (black on my TT Epi) mechanism which the strip "rides" between. I blew it out and ran a lint free cloth through it and I could see some dust and hairs? on the cloth~~worked fine after that. HTH

Bruce

[doug king]

Doug, I know you have cleaned the encoder strip. However, once I had this same type of trouble and discovered I had a small "dust bunny" in the contrast reader! The encoder strip is monitored by the contrast reader and it's optics. It is a slot type (black on my TT Epi) mechanism which the strip "rides" between. I blew it out and ran a lint free cloth through it and I could see some dust and hairs? on the cloth~~worked fine after that. HTH

Bruce

I thought about that too, I blew it out with compressed air and used a mirror to get as good a look as possible.. This laser is less than 60 days old and CLEAN! When I pulled the cover off to clean the strip there wasnt anything tht showed up on the Qtips... I use this in my garage with epoxied floors that I mop... The garage doors only go up when I am moving large media in and out (About twice a month)....

I flipped the cable this morning and I am running the same job again on scrap wood so I can try to recreate....

[Peck Sidara]

Doug,

All responses are good suggestions. To keep the frustration to a minimum, avoid having to scrap expensive items, wasting your time...

I recommend using compressed air to blow out the encoder reader. As Bruce suggested, "dust bunnies" can get lodged in between, causing intermittent reading from the reader to encoder (just saw that you tried that already. You might want to take it off completely and blowing air thru it again).

Contact technical support, order up the related components which can cause the shift. Replace one at a time to help determine which is the culprit (I would probably start with the flex cable).

[doug king]

I cleaned the machine again this morning, flipped the cable and I am on the 3rd pass and things are working as you would expect a new machine to work... I contacted Epilog and Brian was super informative and said we had done all the right things.. They are shipping me a new cable and I should get it tomorrow.. He said that the cables typically last a lot longer but they have been known to go bad... So far so good, I am going to run this artwork at least 3 times before I stick any more granite in there...

[Ben Levesque]

Hi Doug

It may not be the same thing, but I've experience the same problem as seen in your photo, if it is so, this should repeat itself at the same area with this particular drawing you are using if you laser another time (try scrap material) somethime the end results was ok, sometime the issue came back (intermittently). All of those transpose or (deportation) of some of the area of the drawing was there because my drawing was created using the Corel trace tool, and I had quite a few hidden lines that my Epilog machine did not like very much, make sure your drawing is clean and avoid the Corel trace if you don't understand or don't control like a hawk all the layers and lines in Corel. Once I understood all this, this problem never came back, ever!

But like I said in the beginning, this may not be your issue, so I've said it, just in case.

Ben

[doug king]

Hi Doug

It may not be the same thing, but I've experience the same problem as seen in your photo, if it is so, this should repeat itself at the same area with this particular drawing you are using if you laser another time (try scrap material) somethime the end results was ok, sometime the issue came back (intermittently). All of those transpose or (deportation) of some of the area of the drawing was there because my drawing was created using the Corel trace tool, and I had quite a few hidden lines that my Epilog machine did not like very much, make sure your drawing is clean and avoid the Corel trace if you don't understand or don't control like a hawk all the layers and lines in Corel. Once I understood all this, this problem never came back, ever!

But like I said in the beginning, this may not be your issue, so I've said it, just in case.

Ben

I completely understand what your talking about but I have to ask, if I ran the job from memory once and it worked fine then I should expect the same results on the second pass.

Right? or am I missing something?

[Ben Levesque]

....if I ran the job from memory once and it worked fine then I should expect the same results on the second pass.

Right? or am I missing something?

Not necessarily, since all (on my part) was related to a bad drawing that I thought was good in the first place just by the looks of it, so weather or not it was in the laser memory, I was getting intermittently bad alignment in my end results.

Did you use the Corel trace tool to create your drawing ?

Ben

[Bill Cunningham]

I'm just wondering why your running 'two' passes on granite. Granite does not require much power to etch. Real Marble, can benefit from a second pass (gets much whiter) but granite offers no real improvement on multiple passes...Sometimes if you run a photo a little too light, a second light pass may improve it (but your taking a chance)..

[rich shepard]

I agree with Bill on the granite one pass should be enough. As for the shifting problem have had the same thing happen and changing the cable has fixed it both times. That cable gets lots of use and bending especially if your doing a big piece and running the head full travel. It's easy to have a wire break inside the cable. I've replaced 3 on mine in 5 years first one went in like 6 months and the others have lasted . Replaced the last one about a year ago. And at 15 bucks each might just start keeping one handy and replace every year.
All I can say about Epilog service is it's top notch and have had me up and running over night even when I broke on a Friday afternoon on a holiday weekend , had the part here Saturday morning from a Dealer in LA.
They hand carried the part to UPS after hours and shipped it overnight at no extra charge.
rich

[doug king]

I agree with Bill on the granite one pass should be enough. As for the shifting problem have had the same thing happen and changing the cable has fixed it both times. That cable gets lots of use and bending especially if your doing a big piece and running the head full travel. It's easy to have a wire break inside the cable. I've replaced 3 on mine in 5 years first one went in like 6 months and the others have lasted . Replaced the last one about a year ago. And at 15 bucks each might just start keeping one handy and replace every year.
All I can say about Epilog service is it's top notch and have had me up and running over night even when I broke on a Friday afternoon on a holiday weekend , had the part here Saturday morning from a Dealer in LA.
They hand carried the part to UPS after hours and shipped it overnight at no extra charge.
rich

Flipping the cable seems to have worked so far... The new one is suppossed to be here today... I guess the odd part in all of this is why it went out in just 2 months, is this the service exception to the rule... I just got the odd man out but most go for a year before they need a new one? I dunno, I can tell you that I appreciate the advice from folks here and the support of Epilog walking me through this though...

Doug

[Dan Hintz]

Bad cables right off of the shelf happen, though it should be exceedingly rare. They can be damaged during installation, but you would have to be kind of harsh on it. Poor QC of the materials going into the cable or construction during manufacture can happen, and this would be the most likely cause. I will say, though, an average lifetime of 1 year for a cable to break means either the cable QC is poor or the design of the cable/connection should be looked at again, even in a production environment... semiconductor manufacturers use flex cables for their test/assembly equipment (which moves a lot like the laser carriage), and they would be pretty ticked off if the equipment had a MTBF of 1 year due to something like a cable (other issues are a more likely failure mode).

[Rangarajan Saravana kumar]

Hi,

Have your metal rod on top of x axis encoder, which holds to and fro the air hose got any touch with x bare board, if so, would make some problem

Rgds,
Saravanakumar

[doug king]

9:47 am and the part showed up at my door... woo hoo.... thanks folks....