Frozen ac and frozen frogs

[keith ouellette]

I know its much colder in other parts of the world but when it is so unusual you can't help talking about it. Here is a picture of what our ac/heat pump still looks like at noon. Its solid ice all the way through. I really hope it doesn't start leaking freon because of this. I have no idea how it even happened. Its old and would be a giant expense to replace this summer.

I didn't take a picture of the frozen frogs but a bunch of them were cowering under a horse troth overnight and froze completely solid.

Really have never seen weather like this down here before.

[Mike Conley]

I wanted to see the frozen frogs! :)

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I have no idea how it even happened

I would think that would be expected. Think of what a heat pump does. It moves heat from one place (the outside) to the inside. Now, think of it another way.....it moves the cold from the inside to the outside. it's an air conditioner run in reverse. so, the outside unit got cold enough for any humidity to freeze on the outside unit. Just like frost in a freezer.

just curious....what's the humidity there?

[Kevin L. Pauba]

I thought most HPs have a defrost cycle that will temporarily reverse the flow to take heat from your house and melt any frost on the condenser. Mine does and it works well although I have it set to bypass the HP below 40F (where the aux heat kicks in) -- something you probably don't have down there in the warm south!

[Rick Prosser]

I wonder if the frogs will come back to life when they thaw out? I would not be surprised.

[John A langley]

Kiss the Frogs

[keith ouellette]

I would think that would be expected. Think of what a heat pump does. It moves heat from one place (the outside) to the inside. Now, think of it another way.....it moves the cold from the inside to the outside. it's an air conditioner run in reverse. so, the outside unit got cold enough for any humidity to freeze on the outside unit. Just like frost in a freezer.

just curious....what's the humidity there?

the humidity has stayed below 30% for days. All day long which is unusual in itself.

And if thats how a heat pump works ,I never cared about heat until recently, where did the heat being pumped from the outside come from as it was below 30 deg.

[keith ouellette]

I wanted to see the frozen frogs! :)

Sorry. We moved the trough to get the ice out so the horse could drink and found the frogs frozen underneath and put it back ad filled it before I thought to take a picture.
They looked like cold frog sculptures.

[Paul Ryan]

I use a heat pump up hear in the artic circle of MN. But it is only 1 year old. I use it strickly down to 15 then combine it with an electric booster, and then below -5 stricly LP heat. My heat pump has a defrost cycle to keep it from looking like yours Keith. I have been extremly happy with it saved my lots of $$ last year and along with the extra insulation I blew in my attic this fall will save even more this year. I wonder what the frog hear do when it gets this cold. They must do some kind of hibernation type thing. But the ground freezes down to 48" below the surface so they must have to go deep. By the way there is a lot of heat left in 30 degree air. Not as much left in -32 air.

[Jim Becker]

I've had some frogcicles here from time to time when they stupidly stay too high up in the patio pond's filter housing...they look just like hibernating frogs except they are "rock hard". LOL

[Al Willits]

You might try turning the ac on for a little bit, that should defrost the coils.
But..
Does sound like if there is a defrost feature its not working, I'd have it looked at, you'd hate to end up with liquid freon in the inlet of the compressor.

al

[Lee Schierer]

Most heat pumps have auxiliary heating coils that come on once the outside temperature reaches about 40 degrees which makes them much less efficient at those temperatures. It looks like your heating coils failed. If you have a good source of water switch to a geothermal heating and air conditioning, they use far less energy. I heat and cool my house with one.

[Paul Greathouse]

Keith

I've had the same thing happen to my heat pumps before. There shouldn't be any damage. Just turn it off for a while and it should defrost, if it dosn't, you can melt the frost by hosing it down with your garden hose. If it stays cold you may have to do this more than once.

As a side note, I had to replace my downstairs unit a couple years ago. I went with a high efficiency electric heat strip unit (non-heatpump). I hated the heat pumps because they could not heat the house properly in really cold weather (below freezing). The new non-heatpump unit actually is more effiecient. I've experienced slightly lower electric bills and it heats the house much better & faster. Just something to consider when it comes time to replace your unit.

[Ken Garlock]

I agree 100% with Capt. Schierer. Geo thermal is the way to go.:) No defrost cycles, no need for auxiliary resistor heating in the south. It should be a snap in Florida. As I understand, the water table is only about 10 ft. under ground. :eek:

Our 5 ton geo system, with no auxiliary resistor heat installed, will keep our 3200 sq-ft. house at 74 when it is 108 out, and in the winter at 68 when it is 10 out. Those are the two extremes that come to mind.

[Tom Godley]

The unit is freezing whatever humidity is in the air as it is drawn across the coils - when the frost builds up like that it can be that the defrost cycle is not working correctly or that the unit is not working correctly and the preprogramed defrost cycle is not adequate to fully defrost the unit.


The unit is using refrigerant to move heat from one location to another - even when it is cold outside differential heat is available. Modern heat pumps especially with inverter compressors are amazingly efficient and can work in temps that just a few years ago were impossible. They are not as efficient as Geothermal because they are working with air in the thirties vs water often in the 50s.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree 100% with Capt. Schierer. Geo thermal is the way to go.:) No defrost cycles, no need for auxiliary resistor heating in the south. It should be a snap in Florida. As I understand, the water table is only about 10 ft. under ground. :eek:

Our 5 ton geo system, with no auxiliary resistor heat installed, will keep our 3200 sq-ft. house at 74 when it is 108 out, and in the winter at 68 when it is 10 out. Those are the two extremes that come to mind.

Ken, you're revealing my secret identity. :D

We lost power yesterday due to an ice storm. After 10 hours with 24 degrees out side the house temp had only fallen to 59 from 69. Our heat pump recovered from the low temp in about 30 minutes. The first summer we had our unit we ran the a/c continuously from July to the end of September. We used the same KW as the year before running fans and a dehumidifier and the house was a constant 74.

[Larry Fox]

I have a heat pump here in SE PA. It is 15 - 25 degrees and has not frozen. If you are contemplating a replacement I highly advise it. We did ours 2 years ago and it has come very close to paying for itself with the redunction in the monthly utility bill. I both heat and AC with it - my unit was REALLY old so ymmv but it is something to think about and takes some of the bite out of the replacment cost.

[Myk Rian]

The unit is freezing whatever humidity is in the air as it is drawn across the coils - when the frost builds up like that it can be that the defrost cycle is not working correctly or that the unit is not working correctly and the preprogramed defrost cycle is not adequate to fully defrost the unit.
+1 on that.

You could always use it for a beer cooler.

[keith ouellette]

I wonder if the frogs will come back to life when they thaw out? I would not be surprised.

Rick was right. The frogcycles thawed and are alive. Now I'm not sure if they were solid frogcycles or just frozen part of the way through but its a pretty neat trick though.

[Bill Cunningham]

I installed a big air source heat pump here last year(19 seer/9.5 hspf). It froze up solid, and they took it out as a big chunk of ice last January. The problem was a bad reversing valve which shifts it from heating to air condx. long enough to thaw out the coils.. Mine is also set for 15deg. Below that, it switches to a 3 stage High Eff. gas unit.. They replaced the reversing valve (warranty) and re installed the unit. This winter it's been working great.. I also installed a Rinnai tankless hot water system which uses about 1/2 meter of gas a day for everything (currently about 8 cents) and I've lowered my heating/hotwater costs on oil, from $3k a year for house and shop, to just under $1000.00 on gas.. I'm happy.. Not as happy as if I was basking in the hot Florida sun, but happy none the less :D

[Myk Rian]

The problem was a bad reversing valve which shifts it from heating to air condx. long enough to thaw out the coils..
That is the number one service call on heat pumps.

[Bill Cunningham]

That is the number one service call on heat pumps.

Ya.. This particular machine went went through three of them (including the original) as well as a compressor all in the first 6 mo. It came with a 10 year parts and labor, and after 'bitching' it was extended a year.. It's working great now though.. What else is there to go wrong..ha..

[Jason Roehl]

the humidity has stayed below 30% for days. All day long which is unusual in itself.

And if thats how a heat pump works ,I never cared about heat until recently, where did the heat being pumped from the outside come from as it was below 30 deg.

Here's a shocker for you: there is no such thing as "cold". There is only heat, and less heat. Temperature is a quantity based on the average speed of the molecules in a substance. At Absolute Zero (-273.15ºC), this molecular motion stops.

While temperature is about the average speed of the molecules in a substance, evaporation happens when individual molecules exceed the Heat of Vaporization--in water, that would be the boiling point--they're moving faster than the average and are able to escape the surface. This reduces the average of the substance, lowering its temperature. However, that molecule that left the surface is now at a higher temperature. Harnessing that higher temperature through compression and evaporation is how heat pumps work, which is really what an air conditioner is, except that it is heating the outdoors with heat from the inside of your home.

It's a little over-simplified, so for you physicists and chemists out there, don't nit-pick... ;)