Wood choice for painted raised panel cabinet doors

[Daniel Dadourian]

Planning on making cabinets for a finished basement. They will be spray lacquered white (WB acrylic EM 6500). The faces will have raised panel doors. I am looking for suggestions regarding wood selection for the face frames and raised panels. I recently completed a similar project using hard maple but found that there was too much tear out with my planer (A3 31 with new knives).

[Jeff Hallam]

I'm not an expert at this, but I believe that Poplar machines well and is fairly economical. Also takes a painted finish well.

[Fred Preston]

poplar or MDF. both machine well. real wood or not wood. your choice. MDF does not move much but doesnt like moisture at all.

[Lee Schierer]

Poplar takes paint well. The first coat will turn out rough, but a light sanding and a second coat will yield a velvet smooth finish.

For added strength consider using lap joints for the frames instead of cope and stick type joints. The paint will hide the joint.

[bruce buren]

poplar, but i've used mdf as well both need a light sanding after first coat

[Philip Rodriquez]

Use MDF. It is cheap, very easy to machine, and it can be glued in place... adding strength to the door. Poplar would be my second choice.

[Rob Cunningham]

I've always used Poplar for painted projects. I prime with with 2 coats of BIN primer first.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'd go with MDF panels and Poplar rails/stiles.

If it's a kitchen, I'd use all poplar because the like somebody already said, MDF doesn't do well when it gets wet. Paint should probably protect it, but I wouldn't take that chance.

[Daniel Dadourian]

Thanks guys! I think it looks like MDF wins. The location for the cabinets will be dry. Going with MDF will save me the trouble of having to joint, plane and glue up the panels. I'll stick with poplar for the frames.

Again, many thanks. dd

[Peter Quinn]

For panels I like MD ultralite, like Truppan or similar. It machines far better than your basic MDF and cuts the weight a bit. You won't find it at a big box, but most good plywood suppliers should be able to get it. For FF and door frames I find soft maple is a nice upgrade from poplar. Its a bit harder and a bit more stable IME, and takes a better finish for smooth paint grade work. Poplar is my strong second choice, and a bit cheaper too.

[J.R. Rutter]

I find soft maple is a nice upgrade from poplar.

ditto for me.

[Larry Edgerton]

Thanks guys! I think it looks like MDF wins. The location for the cabinets will be dry. Going with MDF will save me the trouble of having to joint, plane and glue up the panels. I'll stick with poplar for the frames.

Again, many thanks. dd

Really? Just because on a forum several people make poor choices based on being cheap you are going to blindly run over a cliff? You feel you need to follow?

MDF is crap. Its good for jigs. Its not wood as your original question posed. Why go through the whole process just to create something that is a fake, with the same quality of materials found at WalMart?

Poplar...........

[Darrell Bade]

I did not think raised panel doors had much strength when the panels were made out of MDF.

I would use poplar for the frames and all door parts. I would also use some type of plywood for the sides instead of MDF, but that is just me.

[John A langley]

Really? Just because on a forum several people make poor choices based on being cheap you are going to blindly run over a cliff? You feel you need to follow?

MDF is crap. Its good for jigs. Its not wood as your original question posed. Why go through the whole process just to create something that is a fake, with the same quality of materials found at WalMart?

Poplar...........

Larry - This is probably not an appropriate way to say this but you are dead wrong. I build a lot of custom paint-grade cabinets. We build the faceframes and door frames out of poplar. We build the drawer boxes out of baltic birch and the trim and crown molding out of poplar. The cabinet boxes and shelves are out of MDF. If you use good construction techniques, boxes and doors are as strong as anything else. MDF is developed to be a good alternative to paint-grade material. They make a water resistant grade that you can use inside your sink cabinet. Have you seen what moisture will do to birch plywood? There are all kinds of good products on the market. They all have pros and cons about them. Another one is Melamine. If worked right it makes and excellent interior of cabinets. I can't sell it here because of preconceived notions. Larry, I think before you but such a platantly strong heading on something you should do your research. PS I forgot to say the MDF paints better than anything and does not expand or shrink as much as anything else and will not crack as badly as other products that are more subject to humidty.

[Josiah Bartlett]

The panels of the doors can be made out of glass or steel or concrete or crepe paper if you want- they add no strength to the door unless you plan on punching it with your fist. They are supposed to float in the stiles anyway. Whats wrong with MDF if you are going to paint it?

I like poplar or alder for painted door frames. Whatever your cheap local secondary wood is.

[Rick Moyer]

Really? Just because on a forum several people make poor choices based on being cheap you are going to blindly run over a cliff? You feel you need to follow?


In the words of Carl Spackler from CaddyShack "That's a little harsh". I'm not a big fan of MDF, but for basement cabinets that are being painted I don't think it would be such a terrible idea. I guess if the OP were very rich he could make them out of Ipe and gild the frames, but he asked a reasonable question and got some "opinions" from which he is free to folow or not.

[Karl Brogger]

Poplar is too soft. Dings up real easily.

Soft maple isn't bad, the consitancy(sp) of the hardness is all over the place. I just ran through almost 600bd/ft of softmaple the past couple of weeks doing a house worth of raised panel, paintgrade cabinets. I'm leaning more towards a birch for the next one. I paid $1.40 per bd/ft for the soft maple, and I can get a PG birch for the same money. I think it'll be easier to work with and machine better.

MDF works for panels, but you have to get a specific grade or else where the surface has been broken it'll soak up an incredible amout of material while finishing it.

[John A langley]

Karl - I have seen birch's mineral deposits come through the paint. I would recommend that you use a sealer that will block that out.

[Neal Clayton]

why own thousands of dollars worth of tools and spend thousands of dollars worth of time to build something that you can buy for hundreds of dollars at ikea?

[Chip Lindley]

Double Ditto for me! Soft maple is often overlooked unless it is quite figured. It machines well and is usually a bargain compared to poplar. Anything is better than MDF! Why settle for FauxWood?!?

[Ed Parker]

For panels I like MD ultralite, like Truppan or similar. It machines far better than your basic MDF and cuts the weight a bit. You won't find it at a big box, but most good plywood suppliers should be able to get it. For FF and door frames I find soft maple is a nice upgrade from poplar. Its a bit harder and a bit more stable IME, and takes a better finish for smooth paint grade work. Poplar is my strong second choice, and a bit cheaper too.

From my experience, Peter is dead on. As a cabinetmaker in a high-end custom shop, we always use soft maple for painted door parts and a GOOD QUALITY MDF for panels. (Trupan Ultralight) The MDF will stay flat, whereas the poplar and soft maple panels will warp over time, even if they're flat at installation. (Plus, time savings = $$$.) Prime and sand panels before glue-up. If moisture is a concern, Medex is another MDF that is highly water resistant, but also heavier.

BTW, planing soft maple may tear out, but Bondo easily hides defects during the sanding stage.

[Jeff Heath]

Poplar is a good choice, but it depends on the usage of the cabinets. If they will be used hard, especially by kids, you might want to rethink and go with soft maple.

I used to use poplar exclusively, as I always had plenty of dried poplar around. After a while, I was getting requests to repair a lot of dings and dents. Poplar is quite soft, and dents real easy. Soft maple is just as inexpensive, and is much harder than poplar. It takes paint exceptionally well, and will hold up to the dents and dings much better over the long haul.

Make sure you use a good primer to help prevent offgasing of the mdf panels. That glue is nasty!

Jeff

[Fred Floyd]

I made kitchen style cabinets for my garage shop about 13 years ago. The boxes were 3/4" melamine and the doors were MDF. I coated the doors with three coats of polyurethane. They have held up very well -- They, however are very unimpressive to look at even with the routed pattern to look like a raised panel. They are fine for the shop.

The kitchen had melamine boxes and mdf doors that were dipped in some sort of plastic coating. Every little nick becomes a "tumor" where the MDF expands and causes an ugly bulge. No more MDF for inside the house.

I am replacing all 40 or so doors and drawer fronts with frame and panel made of poplar -- including the panels. I will accept the issue of expansion and contraction, but at the end of the day it is wood and will hold up much better. At about $2.00/bf it is economical. It works very predictably, has few knots and takes paint very well.

I plan to paint with an acrylic primer, followed by a high gloss latex designed for wood and metal. It is expensive, but well worth it. The primer and first coat will be sprayed. The final coat will be brushed -- at least that is the plan. If I get lazy, the final coat will be sprayed as well.

That is my experience and plan ... for what it's worth...

[johnny means]

why own thousands of dollars worth of tools and spend thousands of dollars worth of time to build something that you can buy for hundreds of dollars at ikea?

One cannot buy a high end MDF cabinet at Ikea. High end craftsmanship is not about the materials, used it is about the work and vision of the craftsman. MDF and melamine are the materials of choice for many of the most exclusive makers of Italian lacquer kitchens and furniture. Would you judge a painting by the type of paint used. Any hack can buy a bunch of expensive lumber. It takes a real artisan to create quality and beauty from the mundane.

Sure MDF is not as sexy as a slab of fiddleback sycamore, but often times its qualities make it the better choice for a given project.

Why spend spend thousands of dollars of time to have your panel warp or split? Would you also think that sports car makers should pass on carbon fiber and magnesium because they aren't traditional materials. The job of the craftsman is to know what materials and techniques are the optimal choice in any given situation not to blow as much money as possible.

[Greg Dykes]

Here are some doors I made using poplar. I would much rather use it than MDF.....

[Greg Dykes]

Sorry....I was in a hurry.

[Neal Clayton]

One cannot buy a high end MDF cabinet at Ikea. High end craftsmanship is not about the materials, used it is about the work and vision of the craftsman. MDF and melamine are the materials of choice for many of the most exclusive makers of Italian lacquer kitchens and furniture. Would you judge a painting by the type of paint used. Any hack can buy a bunch of expensive lumber. It takes a real artisan to create quality and beauty from the mundane.

Sure MDF is not as sexy as a slab of fiddleback sycamore, but often times its qualities make it the better choice for a given project.

Why spend spend thousands of dollars of time to have your panel warp or split? Would you also think that sports car makers should pass on carbon fiber and magnesium because they aren't traditional materials. The job of the craftsman is to know what materials and techniques are the optimal choice in any given situation not to blow as much money as possible.

they aren't exclusive because they say they are. no more than an automated gate in front of a suburb of copy/paste houses makes them "exclusive". this is a wood working forum, not a marketing forum.

part of knowing how to build something is knowing how to choose and prepare your boards, so that they don't split or warp.

this also isn't an engineering forum. if people wanted the ultimate in durability they could quite easily build an entire building out of concrete. but that's not very aesthetically pleasing.

and neither is MDF...

[Van Huskey]

One cannot buy a high end MDF cabinet at Ikea. High end craftsmanship is not about the materials, used it is about the work and vision of the craftsman. MDF and melamine are the materials of choice for many of the most exclusive makers of Italian lacquer kitchens and furniture. Would you judge a painting by the type of paint used. Any hack can buy a bunch of expensive lumber. It takes a real artisan to create quality and beauty from the mundane.

Sure MDF is not as sexy as a slab of fiddleback sycamore, but often times its qualities make it the better choice for a given project.

Why spend spend thousands of dollars of time to have your panel warp or split? Would you also think that sports car makers should pass on carbon fiber and magnesium because they aren't traditional materials. The job of the craftsman is to know what materials and techniques are the optimal choice in any given situation not to blow as much money as possible.

I agree 100%. Plus not ever piece you build just because you have thousands of dollars in equipment has to be heirloom. Sometimes I build things where cost and utility are high concerns. I personally do not like to paint wood, but it makes sense to do it sometimes, cabinets are one of them. Paint will lay down on MDF better than wood, the final product will probably be better asthetically than with wood panels (unless you distress them). Outside glueing up the panels you use all the same skills and your craftsmanship will be displayed. The time and money you save can be put toward another project with a bunch of exotic wood and a ton more skill sets than a set of cabinets take.