Another way to hold a winged bowl

[Baxter Smith]

After turning a winged bowl with a poor looking bottom yesterday morning, I decided I would try again with the other half last night. Wanted to try either a smaller recess with my small jaws or a tenon. Here is the piece ready to put in the chuck with a 1” hole. Not as much on the outside as required but all I thought I could afford given the thickness of the piece.
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Put the piece in the chuck and sharpened my gouge. As soon as I touched the top it came out. No damage so put it back in and tightened a little more. Everything was going smoothly on the first pass till almost the edge. Hard to see but the top of the recess is blown out. So much for that.
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Called it a day.


While I was scraping off old adhesive to put in a new tub surround this morning I got to thinking. Even though there really wasn’t enough depth left to make a bowl, I could screw the faceplate back on and try turning a tenon. Then I could at least see if my small jaws would hold while I flattened the top. After studying my smaller straight sided jaws tonight, I decided there was no way they were going to hold a 1/4'’ round tenon.
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I am going to try another post with more pics but..

[Baxter Smith]

Thought about some pictures I had seen of Leo’s last night and all the ways he had attached blanks so that he could turn bottoms. If he can turn a bottom, maybe I can turn the inside in a similar fashion. I put the faceplate back on and returned the bottom side. Put on my cole jaws for the first time( the guy I got my lathe from had lots of accessories) and used the rubber bumpers to center the bottom of the bowl. Cut some 15/16 wood blocks and attached them with screws from the back. Then screwed the blank to the blocks.
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Seemed to work ok.
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Cut of the screw holes and still had a little sanding to flatten the tips.
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One of the two limbs was dead so the bark was gone on one side.
Finished with a coat of Danish Oil and bagged. Its not going back on the lathe.

Apple from a King Tree. 1” tall by 8 “ long.

In yesterdays post, Leo pointed out some spots I should add CA glue. In studying other posts today, someone said they were adding CA glue and the picture was of Krazy glue. Is that the same glue I should be using or is it the two part CA glue.

All suggestions are appreciated!

[Sid Matheny]

I like this one better Baxter and yeah there is more than one way to skin a cat as the old saying goes.


Sid

[Ryan Baker]

Don't try to chuck up a tenon with the Nova 1" or pin jaws. It won't end well. The smooth jaws don't grab anything to start with, and the fact that they don't sit parallel (they actually taper slightly larger at the end of the jaws -- this is largely to do with missing the second screw in the jaws and the jaws flexing under compression) means that the piece will slowly work out of the jaws. You were correct not to try that. A 1/4" tenon would have been a lot too small anyway.

Usually for that type of winged bowl, I start by turning the bottom and making a tenon, but I leave the tenon large -- say 3.5" or so. I don't try to turn the bottom of the bowl part. Cut the wings and the upper part of the bowl. Then I flip the piece around and have a good string tenon to use while cutting the top side wings and bowl. You need a string mount when cutting those wings. When the top is done, the piece gets flipped back to the bottom side (I usually just use a friction drive here, but a vac chuck is another easy choice among others) and finish cutting off the tenon and shaping the bottom of the bowl. The large tenon is in the part of the bowl bottom that gets turned away. The point is that you don't have to use a small tenon or recess just because that is all that will fit the bottom of a small bowl.

Nice job with the mounting fixture. Looks like it worked well. Figuring out how to mount pieces is often a big part of the challenge.

Nice bowl too...

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Baxter here's a link to CA, it is similar to Krazy glue.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,110&p=42966

You are doing well Baxter, there are all kinds of ways to hold or mount the pieces, you got it finished and it looks good.

Now, me looking at the first picture, I think I would have gone another route, I'd turn a disk that would be bigger than the recess you have and turn a shoulder on it that would be a good fit to the recess and then use some CA to glue it in.
The long wings and that small area with no real shoulder for the chuck jaws to fit against, and again very little holding of relative weak sapwood, I would not have gone with the chuck as you did.
There's also one other thing here, it looks like you use a gouge with the irish grind, it takes a relatively wide cut, I would be using a original grind gouge, as it takes a much smaller cut and less power to cut, whatever, you did just fine in the end.

This is what it is al about, having fun and doing things we like doing :) :)

[Thomas Bennett]

To quote Ryan, "Then I flip the piece around and have a good string tenon to use while cutting the top side wings and bowl. You need a string mount when cutting those wings. "

What is a "string tenon" and "string mount"? I've never heard the term. Thanks in advance.

[steven carter]

Thomas,

I think he meant to type strong, not string.

Steve

[John Keeton]

Baxter, all I can say is - Man, I am proud of you!! Every day is an adventure with you, and you don't let much stand in your way!;)

Great job! "Necessity is the mother of invention"

[Allen Neighbors]

Ditto what the Keeton guy said!! Great job. And learning what does, and does not, work, is priceless, eh, what?

[Ryan Baker]

To quote Ryan, "Then I flip the piece around and have a good string tenon to use while cutting the top side wings and bowl. You need a string mount when cutting those wings. "

What is a "string tenon" and "string mount"? I've never heard the term. Thanks in advance.

Yes, those should have been 'strong'. I really need to get more sleep. Sorry. :(

[Baxter Smith]

Sid - I know there is more than one way to skin a cat but some ways do less damage to the pelt/bowl than others! Why do you like this one better? Smaller base, smoother transition from side of bowl to bottom, no top rim, just being nice...etc.
You don't have to answer, but I still had to ask! :)

Ryan, you are quite right about not using those pin jaws to hold a tenon. I used them to rough turn the first couple of apple bowls I did. Lets just say I had to rechuck or at least retighten more than a few times.:D Progress was slow!
Thanks for the description of flipping it back and forth to achieve the desired results. As for the string, I figured that out about the third time I read it. The first couple times I was thinking I've got to Google this or demonstrate my lack of turning vocabulary. (Which is rather large!)

Leo - Thanks for the link to the CA glue. I ordered some of that after you suggested it. It came sometime today and I will add some tomorrow to those spots. May not hold well since I already applied some oil but it may help. Will try to saturate that knot in one of the other bowls as well.

Your suggestion for what you would have done makes sense. (No surprise there!) For this particular piece, whether you like to turn with tenons or a recess is irrelevant. There wasn't enough wood there for a proper one of either. By flattening the bottom and glueing on a block either one could be done satisfactorily. That idea wasn't in my memory bank, but it is now!:)

As for the irish grind, I wouldn't know that from an original grind ......but I get where you are coming from. I will look it up. I modified one of the grinds on my gouges slightly to try and approximate the one Bill Grumbine uses in his DVD.

John and Allen - Thank you! Having the time, materials, and support from all of you has made something fun even better. I almost feel like a kid that can't wait to get his homework done so he can show his teacher and find out how he can do it even better!
Didn't have any time to do turn today but that didn't stop me from thinking about the next thing to try with one of those pieces spread out on the garage floor!

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo - Thanks for the link to the CA glue. I ordered some of that after you suggested it. It came sometime today and I will add some tomorrow to those spots. May not hold well since I already applied some oil but it may help. Will try to saturate that knot in one of the other bowls as well.

Your suggestion for what you would have done makes sense. (No surprise there!) For this particular piece, whether you like to turn with tenons or a recess is irrelevant. There wasn't enough wood there for a proper one of either. By flattening the bottom and glueing on a block either one could be done satisfactorily. That idea wasn't in my memory bank, but it is now!:)

As for the irish grind, I wouldn't know that from an original grind ......but I get where you are coming from. I will look it up. I modified one of the grinds on my gouges slightly to try and approximate the one Bill Grumbine uses in his DVD.


Baxter here are a couple of pictures that show the Irish grind and the traditional/original grind on the bowl gouge.
also a picture of one of the bowls that had a couple of knots in it, as you can see the knots are just fine, the existing crack is also still closed, the bowl is dry at this point (picture taken) HTH :)

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[Baxter Smith]

Thanks for taking the time to post Leo. Thats about what I was guessing when I wrote last night. My remaining apple pieces are all from limbs so there will be some knots to try that on.:)

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Baxter there's one thing you have to keep in mind with branch wood, there's tension and compression wood in the branch, if you cut through the branch with compression on one side and tension on the other side you'll have more problems drying it without splitting.
If you still can determine the top and bottom of the wood, then you can saw through the pith horizontally and have the best chance of keeping the pieces without splitting, have fun and take care ;-))