Granite surface plates

[Mark Bergman]

I'm looking for a 12"x18" plate to keep the soles of wooden planes flat. What's the best place to purchase one of these things? Any reasonable sources other than Grizzly? What is a reasonable set of sandpaper grits to use for this purpose? Will suction keep wet/dry sandpaper flat on the plate if I wet it? Or is PSA sandpaper a better alternative? If so, does the PSA paper leave residue on the plate and how should it be cleaned off?

Whew. I think that's it for questions (for now anyway). Thanks all.

[Herb Blair]

Woodcaft has a granite plate. It's about $30.
I use wet/dry paper (no PSA) now, water tension keeps the paper on the plate. I have used PSA in the past, but find that the non PSA paper is less expensive and easier to find. I cleaned it with Paint Thinner.
I also use a piece of 1/4" plate glass. I have some PSA paper on it at this time as it's faster to hone a blade without a lot of water.

[John Miliunas]

Mark, if you have an outfit locally, which does decorative brick and stone sales/installation, they will often do granite, as well. If so, you may be able to pick up a "leftover" cutoff that size on the cheap. :cool:

[Bob Smalser]

...to keep the soles of wooden planes flat.

I've used woodies a bit over the decades and have never needed anything but the jointer.

[Steve Cox]

I use a 1/4" thick piece of float glass purchased from a local shop (yellow pages) with non-PSA sandpaper used wet. I keep it stuck down with Elmers spray adhesive and clean it with some stuff called Goo Gone. You probably don't want to use the sandpaper wet for your wooden planes though:)

[Alan Turner]

I use psa 120 (white 3M) on the jointer table. Just takes a second. I use this paper since it is what I have. I need to touch them up only rarely.
Alan

[Dave Anderson NH]

I bought my granite surface plate from MSC Industrial supply about 3 years ago. They still show up in their monthly fliers and in the big book. My 3" thick 12" x 18" cost me $35.95. It is a Toolroom Grade B which has a surface flatness of .0005" over its surface. Thats half of one thousandths of an inch folks, plenty accurate enough for flattening plane soles, doing scary sharp, and almost any other woodworking use. I occasionally use mine as planar surface for glueing up drawers and small carcasses.

Just remember, it's not so much the cost of the surface plate, but the cost of the shipping, a 12" x 18" weights over 85 pounds.

[Ellen Benkin]

I love guys who agonize over how flat a piece of flat granite is and whether it's flat enough to flatten a blade that works in wood.

I bought a piece of glass 1/2" thick, 4" wide, and 12" long from a local glass place. It probably cost less than $20. I use PSA sticky backed sandpaper on the glass and the Veritas jigs to set angles. The "system" works great and the wood I work on doesn't even know that I didn't spend time hunting for "float" glass or granite. I clean the sticky stuff off the glass with paint thinner, which is kind of a PITA.

[Gene Collison]

Mark, if you have an outfit locally, which does decorative brick and stone sales/installation, they will often do granite, as well. If so, you may be able to pick up a "leftover" cutoff that size on the cheap. :cool:

__________

John,

Not to be confused with the mortuary stuff (just kidding), the surface plates from Woodcraft etc. are flat to .0001 of an inch and come with a calibration sheet etc. They are real FLAAAAAT.

Gene

[Chris Padilla]

I like the jointer table idea. I happen to have a nice wide jointer table...should be plenty flat for us.

[Jerry Palmer]

Well, if we're coming out of the closet on this, my granite plate came from a place that makes those granite things in the cemetary and such. I got mine free or I'd still be using a piece of MDF.

[Tyler Howell]

Just bought some 3/8 glass (rolled edges) from a pro shop, 10 x12 for this Neander class. $22.00

I have a 20x32 glass door from an old entertainment center to keep the bench clean and finally found a better use for the Cman jointer.
Some 3m spray glue holds the paper fast for lapping and cleans up with glass cleaner and a razor blade.

[Manny Hernandez]

I have a 102 3/8" by 16" dynamic, rotating head, reference plate that I use for flattening wooden planes. Used it the other day to flatten a Clark and Williams 28" jointer plane. ;)

[Alan Turner]

Nice toy, Manny. What kind of abrasive do you use on the rotating head?
Alan

[Manny Hernandez]

Four cutter tersa. Haven't quite figured out the grit size. :D

[Alan Turner]

Manny,
Just a thought, but since this is a neandrethal forum, you might consider a more vintage model. I usually just use the ground glass with hot hide glue. This fellow is from about 1920 or so, and is 12" x 87", which is large enough for most of my hand planes.
Alan

[James Carmichael]

1/4" float goes for $4.50 psf at the local Biswanger.

[Jerry Palmer]

That do look like just a bit of overkill for flattening plane soles and such. But I guess it would probably work.

[Chris Padilla]

I have a 102 3/8" by 16" dynamic, rotating head, reference plate that I use for flattening wooden planes. Used it the other day to flatten a Clark and Williams 28" jointer plane. ;)
I would have thought it a sacrilege to use a modern day plug in device to flatten an old woodie like that! Bravo to you for bridging the gap there! :D

[Mark Bergman]

Thanks everybody. Ellen, great to be loved. (As stated, however, I won't be buying the plate to flatten blades - does that rule out that whole love thing?)

I know glass is an option, but I think I'm going to go with a certified flat granite plate. As a one-time purchase, it doesn't sound like a terrible idea even if it does cost a few bucks more.

Don't have a jointer.

Woodcraft's plates are only 9x12, I believe. Dave, I was thinking of MSC, but couldn't remember their name. Including shipping, MSC is more expensive than Grizzly for me.

Sounds like I won't need PSA or a spray adhesive. 120 grit or so wet/dry sandpaper? Anybody disagree? Don't want to order a bunch of the wrong sandpaper.

Thanks again, people.

[Jim Becker]

I like the jointer table idea. I happen to have a nice wide jointer table...should be plenty flat for us.
Flat, but not "smooth"...your MM FS41 Smart may not be a good choice for this if it's like mine with a "swirled grind" that lowers the amount of surface actually in contact with the wood to eliminate "stickyness"/suction...but your table saw wing might!

[Jay Knoll]

Just bought one for $29 and change,

[Manny Hernandez]

I would have thought it a sacrilege to use a modern day plug in device to flatten an old woodie like that! Bravo to you for bridging the gap there! :D

Yeah, I know, SACRILEGE. But, I was ready to set down some sandpaper to flatten a couple of handplanes when I thought to myself "What the heck" Set it for less than 1/32" cut, flipped the switch and let er rip. I was always concerned about ripping up the mouth of the plane. But, I just took a lite cut with a slow feed rate. Voila! Instant flat!
Now if only I could do that with the metal planes. :D

[Chris Padilla]

Flat, but not "smooth"...your MM FS41 Smart may not be a good choice for this if it's like mine with a "swirled grind" that lowers the amount of surface actually in contact with the wood to eliminate "stickyness"/suction...but your table saw wing might!
Doh!!! I think you are correct, Good Sir!! But that just goes to show you that "the box" is all I have seen so far! How bad is that?? :o

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, I know, SACRILEGE. But, I was ready to set down some sandpaper to flatten a couple of handplanes when I thought to myself "What the heck" Set it for less than 1/32" cut, flipped the switch and let er rip. I was always concerned about ripping up the mouth of the plane. But, I just took a lite cut with a slow feed rate. Voila! Instant flat!
Now if only I could do that with the metal planes. :D
With that wide jointer, you could run the plane across it at an angle, too, and probably get an even smoother cut. However, this can be scary with all that cutterhead exposed compared to the narrowness of the woodie....

[Tom LaRussa]

I like the jointer table idea. I happen to have a nice wide jointer table...should be plenty flat for us.
Chris,

You could probably flatten the bottom of your Beemer on that thing! -- :D -- assuming there's actually anyting inside that big box, of course. :eek:

[Ellen Benkin]

Sorry, I got all caught up in the idea of spending a lot of money for the flattest thing possible to flatten chisels or plane irons and forgot that you wanted to flatten a wooden plane. I think the jointer idea is terrific -- not sure I would have thought of it. But I have used the glass and sandpaper to flatten iron plane bodies so I'm sure it would also work on the wooden ones. I also would try to keep the plane body dry and not "lubricate" the sandpaper. Get it flat and go have fun with it!

[Tom LaRussa]

I have a 102 3/8" by 16" dynamic, rotating head, reference plate that I use for flattening wooden planes. Used it the other day to flatten a Clark and Williams 28" jointer plane. ;)
Manny,

If I send you may Bailey #7, would you flatten it for me? :eek:

[Gene Collison]

But I have used the glass and sandpaper to flatten iron plane bodies so I'm sure it would also work on the wooden ones. I also would try to keep the plane body dry and not "lubricate" the sandpaper. Get it flat and go have fun with it![/QUOTE]

_______________

I have never been able to sucessfully flatten a metal or wood plane with sandpaper on a flat surface. The forward motion invariably takes more off of the toe and the rearward motion takes more off of the heel. If you want a metal plane really flat, take it to your local grinder for about $20 and have it surface ground. It will amaze you on how much better it will perform when really flat like a LN or Clifton. You can put it on flat surface and use a feeler guage to test flatness and sometimes glass will flex enough to give a false reading. I think the granite surface plate for less than $30 is a steal, I mean just to be able to buy something guaranteed to be flat to .0001 for less than $30. Besides planes, you can truly test a myriad of other things for flatness or straightness such as squares, rules, stones plane irons. It is nice to have something around the shop that is -the last word-.

Gene
not affiliated with any granite company

[Bob Smalser]

Just set the jointer so it takes a whisper of a 32nd....and run the plane sole slowly through backwards so's there's no risk of chipping the mouth:

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/49877209.jpg


Then a tad of boat soup followed by wax....sanding can be counterproductive...a jointed surface is slicker.

I did a detailed article on this last a April that got all of 3 responders, if anybody is interested now:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=8351&highlight=rehabbing+woodies

[Gene Collison]

[QUOTE=Bob Smalser]Just set the jointer so it takes a whisper of a 32nd....and run the plane sole slowly through backwards so's there's no risk of chipping the mouth:

_____________



Spot on, that is the absolute best way.

gene

[Manny Hernandez]

Manny,

If I send you may Bailey #7, would you flatten it for me? :eek:

Sure Tom, I'll just switch to the diamond Tersa knives and have it done in a flash. :rolleyes:

[Manny Hernandez]

Just set the jointer so it takes a whisper of a 32nd....and run the plane sole slowly through backwards so's there's no risk of chipping the mouth:



Bob,
Was wondering about grain direction. On wood planes I've made and ones I bought the grain on the sole runs front to back so that your going with the grain when planing. Wouldn't running the plane backwards go against the grain and risk some tearout? Or is your backwards my forward and vice versa? As mentioned above, I ran mine forwards, as though I was planig a piece of wood, through the jointer cutter. Since it was a light cut as you mentioned and slow there was no damage to the mouth anywhere.

[Bob Smalser]

Depends on the wood....

...most planes are made of beech or other diffuse-porous, dense woods not especially prone to chipping... and the grain is usually dead straight.

I use local Madrona, Dogwood, Holly or salvaged Beech to resole them for the same reason.

If I had an old shipwright's plane of a brittle tropical hardwood I was worried about....then I might sand it. But generally I don't find many that also don't need a new mouth, and the easiest fix is to give them an entire new sole.

You can also add a throatpiece to tighten a mouth....but like my resoling procedure, there are much easier methods to accomplish that with drill press and lathe than chopping out a mortise:

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/5424116/69403671.jpg

It also depends some on whether you want to get back to real work or to keep fiddlin with yer tools.

[Tom LaRussa]

I did a detailed article on this last a April that got all of 3 responders, if anybody is interested now:

Bob,

Just because it only got three responders doesn't mean it was not widely appreciated!

I for one save all of your articles on my hard drive in a file named "Smalser On...", (just in case the web ever implodes when I need to find something), as well as in printed form in a binder.

If you ever decide to compile your wisdom into book form I'll buy it in a heartbeat!

[Bob Smalser]

Thanks...but no wisdom here, Tony. Probably just an unbroken link with several generations of professional hand tool users. I was also suggesting that this site has one of the better search features I've seen.



... and Dad a shipwright for a while... children were expected to contribute, and I was farmed out to help: Uncle Paul built powered Garveys for commercial watermen....his dad had been a carriagemaker...Uncle Howard was a custom home builder and master finish carpenter...(and) Uncle Merle... had the woodlot and sawmill that supplied all of them.



Cabinet makers have generally used bare minimum hand tools for a generation or more and the link is long broken. A lot of recent popular info available out there seems to be from hobbyist tool collectors with scant woodworking experience of any real depth or breadth.

Boatbuilders/shipwrights/interior joiners...both traditional and modern...who today's cabinet makers rarely hear from because they are relatively scarce, generally have the something of the opposite experience....hard to lug that chop saw or a large workpiece 10' up and down a ladder and then 20' on your hands and knees to make a cut.

Those planes all work and have worked for their living....and are treated accordingly.

[Matt Meiser]

I got a piece of granite from a countertop shop. They had a whole bin of sink cutouts. The guy said to take all I wanted for free.