Fein or Festool vac

[Jerry Spitz]

Thanks to everyone for the information on Festool sanders and vacs. I've decided a dedicated vac is the way to go. Next decision is Fein or Festool vac and model. Any advice on those models would be appreciated, Thanks again.

[doug faist]

Jerry - It's like picking between an MBZ and BMW. Pick the one with the features you like and go for it.

I've got a Fein Turbo III and I love it. I fastened a milk crate on the top for the tools and hose and I'm a happy camper.

Doug

[Brice Burrell]

Since I know you want to hook the vac up to a Festool sander I'd recommend a Festool vac. No messing around to get a perfect fit for the hose. The advantages of the Festool vacs are the Systainer dock on the top, HEPA filters included on the 22/33 models and of the other accessories like the boom arm, hose garage and so on. The Feins are generally quieter and a longer hose.

As I mentioned in your other thread by sure if you go with a Fein to get a new model with the veritable speed. If you or anyone else isn't into the veritable speed feature you can get a old models for a discount.

[Robert Strasser]

I agree with Brice. I also like the anti-static hose on the Festool. The addition of the boom arm is really nice. I used to keep hoses up with bungee cords.

I have a Fein vac in addition to the Festool. I prefer the Fein vacuum attachements to the Festool. I mainly use the Fein for keeping the shop clean and occasionally I'll hook up the Fein to my miter saw when working away from my shop.

Either vac is better and much more quiet than the 2,000 db noise maker I had previously had.

[Jason White]

If you're using Festool sanders, you might as well get the Festool vacuum as the rubber tool adapter on the Festool hose fits the sanders very well.

Or, get the Fein and buy a Festool hose to go with it (probably more expensive to go that route, though).

Jason


Thanks to everyone for the information on Festool sanders and vacs. I've decided a dedicated vac is the way to go. Next decision is Fein or Festool vac and model. Any advice on those models would be appreciated, Thanks again.

[Jeff Nolan]

I think both are of equal quality but if you have Festool power tools then it makes sense to buy into the complete system. I have the Festool midi vac and it's pretty darn nice... it lives up to the hype.

[Jim Becker]

They are both great products. In addition to the "system" aspect of the Festool setup, however, I also prefer the low and essentially flat profile of the Festool vacs over the Fein. While I occasionally will stick a Systainer or three on top of the vac, more often, it's my 150/3 sander, several grits of abrasive and my box of lint-free towels. It's also easier to roll under things due to the lower height.

[Bill Neely]

I'm somewhat frugal and the Fein made more sense for me. The (cleanstream) HEPA filters and bags are much less expensive as is the cost of the vacuum itself. I use a Festool hose with the tools.

[Brice Burrell]

I think both are of equal quality but if you have Festool power tools then it makes sense to buy into the complete system. I have the Festool midi vac and it's pretty darn nice... it lives up to the hype.

BTW, Festool will be offering HEPA filters for the CT Mini and Midi as an accessory in the near future (ETA: February first). No word as of yet if they will be included with new mini/midi vacs in the future.

[Will Blick]

I just went through this same decision process....
As mentioned previously, there is no bad choice here....
In the end, I went with Festool... mainly because IIRC their HEPA filtered down to .3 micron.

I knew the Festool would have much less suction than my BORG shop Vac, but had no idea the difference would be so substantial. This is to be expected when you the vac does not spew out all its microscopic contents out the back end.

For floor pick up, I suggest the 50nmm wide hose to increase suction..... with Festool Vac accessories, the $$ adds up real fast, so this favors the Fein which appears more cost effective...

I also agree with Jim, the Stacked Systainer approach is quite novel and sometimes really adds to the user friendliness...but this depends on how you plan to use it.

[Brice Burrell]

I just went through this same decision process....
As mentioned previously, there is no bad choice here....
In the end, I went with Festool... mainly because IIRC their HEPA filtered down to .3 micron.

I knew the Festool would have much less suction than my BORG shop Vac, but had no idea the difference would be so substantial. This is to be expected when you the vac does not spew out all its microscopic contents out the back end.

For floor pick up, I suggest the 50nmm wide hose to increase suction..... with Festool Vac accessories, the $$ adds up real fast, so this favors the Fein which appears more cost effective...

I also agree with Jim, the Stacked Systainer approach is quite novel and sometimes really adds to the user friendliness...but this depends on how you plan to use it.

Will, I don't agree with your statement about the Festool's lesser suction. Festool vacs come with a small 27 mm diameter hose made to work well with power tools but not so well for general cleanup. With a larger diameter hose the Festool vacs are as powerful as a comparable sized vac of any brand.

As for the cost of Festool vac accessories, like all Festool products they are pricey but are of good quality. The good news is Shop-Vac, Rigid, Craftsman and other brand hoses will fit the Festool vacs. So there are cheaper alternatives for accessories that will work with the Festool vacs.

[Steve Rowe]

Thanks to everyone for the information on Festool sanders and vacs. I've decided a dedicated vac is the way to go. Next decision is Fein or Festool vac and model. Any advice on those models would be appreciated, Thanks again.

I have an older Fein Mini-turbo with HEPA and a Festool CT-22. Both are great machines and the following are my observations/opinions based on about 10 years use on the Fein and 7 years on the Festool.

The Fein is slightly quieter than the Festool but for all practical purposes, the difference is very slight.
Short of using laboratory measurement equipment, suction is the same.
The Festool hose is more flexible than the Fein and is anti-static.
The bag utilization is more efficient on the Festool than the Fein. You can really pack that stuff in there with the Festool. The Fein is good but not as good as the Festool in this regard.
Bag cost differences are negligible IMO because of the above.
Tool storage on the Fein is politely problematic. The Festool has the edge in this regard with its flat top. The top will also accept systainers for storage.
Both machines are stable and roll easily.
Like a number of others have already indicated, you can't go wrong with either one. Choose the one that you like best and go for it.

[Michael Wildt]

Very good comments already. I looked at both brands long time back when I needed a shop vac. Besides Steve's good pro/con list we can add this:

- Festool is rectangular which I felt was nice when it got to storing it since I have limited space.

[george wilson]

I love my Fein. I can jam a 2 1/2" Sears hose into the inlet of the Fein,and use it all the time unless I'm using the smaller Fein hose for power tool hook ups.

I leave the bucket shaped bag in the Fein,and inside,where you can mount a smaller filter,I put on a very fine Cleansteam filter. This gets all the dust,and I don't have the fine filter clogging up like before,when I used it by itself.

[Cameron Reddy]

I love my Fein. I can jam a 2 1/2" Sears hose into the inlet of the Fein,and use it all the time unless I'm using the smaller Fein hose for power tool hook ups.

I leave the bucket shaped bag in the Fein,and inside,where you can mount a smaller filter,I put on a very fine Cleansteam filter. This gets all the dust,and I don't have the fine filter clogging up like before,when I used it by itself.

I do the same with my Turbo II, except that I use all Fein stuff. I can't smell the Fein when it's running. Just purchased the new Fein HEPA collection bag... I will try running the HEPA bag without use of the inner bucket shaped bag to see how that works.

I also have the Festool 22. It does not have the capability of protecting the HEPA filter, and I CAN smell it when it runs.

The Festool also has a feature that lets you port the exhaust with a hose to any location you desire. I haven't used that feature, but it is there.

Cameron Reddy

[Bob Farrell]

The flat top of the Festool also makes it easy to mount a Dust Deputy which will pay for itself many times over from the savings of expendables.

[Brice Burrell]

I do the same with my Turbo II, except that I use all Fein stuff. I can't smell the Fein when it's running. Just purchased the new Fein HEPA collection bag... I will try running the HEPA bag without use of the inner bucket shaped bag to see how that works.

I also have the Festool 22. It does not have the capability of protecting the HEPA filter, and I CAN smell it when it runs......

Cameron Reddy

Are you using a filter bag with your Festool vac?? The Festool vacuums have two stage filtering system (disposable or reusable filter bags) and the main filters (the CT 22 and CT33 have HEPA main filters).

If your getting obvious sawdust odors from your Festool vac you likely have a damaged gasket allowing air to leak. Or, if you aren't using a filter bag you probably ruined your main HEPA filters and smells are going right through the main filters. Allowing course debris to come in direct contact with any HEPA filter can damage the filter quickly. Course debris can act like missiles pelting the filter punching lots of tiny hole in it.

[Cameron Reddy]

Are you using a filter bag with your Festool vac?? The Festool vacuums have two stage filtering system (disposable or reusable filter bags) and the main filters (the CT 22 and CT33 have HEPA main filters).

If your getting obvious sawdust odors from your Festool vac you likely have a damaged gasket allowing air to leak. Or, if you aren't using a filter bag you probably ruined your main HEPA filters and smells are going right through the main filters. Allowing course debris to come in direct contact with any HEPA filter can damage the filter quickly. Course debris can act like missiles pelting the filter punching lots of tiny hole in it.

Brice,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I am using an inner bag. Tightly affixed. Never would use the DC without one. To the best of my knowledge, the HEPA filter is not damaged, though something IS coming through for me to smell, so perhaps I should try a new filter.

To the point, however, is the flapper system on the Festool that allows the user to "shake" the filter and free it from significant deposits. I understand from Wynn Environmental that manipulating a HEPA filter is not ideal, so perhaps this additional feature on the CT-22 is not an enhancement to the DC's effectiveness.

Cameron Reddy

Another thought... I initially considered your comment about debris contacting the HEPA filter to be very far from a possibility. However, thinking further, you may be on to it. I do recall that last time I changed to a new inner bag the filled bag had come loose from the intake port and some debris had filled the inner compartment. The HEPA filter did have a layer of "cake" on it. I vacuumed the HEPA filter, but perhaps the damage had already been done... Now I'm irritated that I didn't hit the Buy it Now for a new filter when Bing was at 20%. I purchased a new Fein HEPA filter... Just not a new one for the Festool...

[Will Blick]

> Will, I don't agree with your statement about the Festool's lesser suction.


If you compare two vacs:

1) have equal size hoses (length and diameter),

2) both pull max. 12 amps, with close to the same eff. rating of the motors (a few % difference is not going to matter),

3) then the difference in total suction will come down to the resistance of the filter media. The larger the filter media, the less the resistance. Festool does well with big media. But OTOH, the tighter the filter media, the greater the resistance, here is where Festools .3 micron HEPA filters create a lot of resistance that will reduce friction much less than than the Borg Vacs... Is this a bad thing? Not for me, I prefer the cleaner air.

Just had the Craftsman side by side with a Festool 22, I would give the Craftsman a 30% edge in suction, of course using the 50mm hose on the 22.

[Brice Burrell]

Brice,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I am using an inner bag. Tightly affixed. Never would use the DC without one. To the best of my knowledge, the HEPA filter is not damaged, though something IS coming through for me to smell, so perhaps I should try a new filter.

To the point, however, is the flapper system on the Festool that allows the user to "shake" the filter and free it from significant deposits. I understand from Wynn Environmental that manipulating a HEPA filter is not ideal, so perhaps this additional feature on the CT-22 is not an enhancement to the DC's effectiveness.

Cameron Reddy

Another thought... I initially considered your comment about debris contacting the HEPA filter to be very far from a possibility. However, thinking further, you may be on to it. I do recall that last time I changed to a new inner bag the filled bag had come loose from the intake port and some debris had filled the inner compartment. The HEPA filter did have a layer of "cake" on it. I vacuumed the HEPA filter, but perhaps the damage had already been done... Now I'm irritated that I didn't hit the Buy it Now for a new filter when Bing was at 20%. I purchased a new Fein HEPA filter... Just not a new one for the Festool...

I'd check the gasket for any obvious leaks too. No question the filter bag coming lose or rupturing can be a real pain.

I also agree with you about the raking of HEPA filters not being a great idea. The "shake" feature on the Festool vacs isn't something I hold in high regard. I think in the long run this type of aggressive agitation can do more harm than good for HEPA filters. Worse yet is it doesn't get rid of the dust, it only knocks it out of the filter temporarily. This loose dust just gets sucked right back up into the filters. Of course letting the main filter pack full of dust isn't good either. I pull the main filters once in a while and gently tap them to knock the dust out.

[Brice Burrell]

> Will, I don't agree with your statement about the Festool's lesser suction.


If you compare two vacs:

1) have equal size hoses (length and diameter),

2) both pull max. 12 amps, with close to the same eff. rating of the motors (a few % difference is not going to matter),

3) then the difference in total suction will come down to the resistance of the filter media. The larger the filter media, the less the resistance. Festool does well with big media. But OTOH, the tighter the filter media, the greater the resistance, here is where Festools .3 micron HEPA filters create a lot of resistance that will reduce friction much less than than the Borg Vacs... Is this a bad thing? Not for me, I prefer the cleaner air.

Just had the Craftsman side by side with a Festool 22, I would give the Craftsman a 30% edge in suction, of course using the 50mm hose on the 22.

Will, your argument is sound. I think we can both agree the Festool vacs have plenty of suction for their intended purpose. And we definitely agree on cleaner air is better.

[Jim Becker]

For floor pick up, I suggest the 50nmm wide hose to increase suction..... with Festool Vac accessories, the $$ adds up real fast, so this favors the Fein which appears more cost effective...

I don't recommend using the Festool extactor for floor pickup if you can avoid it...I bought an inexpensive, small Rigid shop vac for that and for doing the cars, etc. The reason I did this is that the Festool does use bags and floor pickup is going to fill them quickly.

[Will Blick]

Jim, yeah I just checked, at $6+ per bag for Festool, your suggestion is a cost effective strategy.... unless you are in a confined space and want max. air filtration.