Cabinet installation

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I'm in the middle of my first and last cabinet job...and I'm pulling my hair out. Kitchen floor is near 3/4" higher at one end than the other, over a 16' or so run...and there's hills and valleys in it, too. The window over the sink is out of plumb just enough to show...and there's a wall cabinet 1-1/2" away on both sides. If I level the sink base, it really shows bad. The run of wall cabinets measures 'right' from the ceiling, but you can see a bit of slope in relation to the floor. It took me ALL DAY to get the main run of cabinets put together and shimmed to the wall so they were straight across the front and reasonably level front to back. I thought we could count on some 'cheat' with the tile, but it's too much...and the oven cabinet is in a bad spot where it's just too much out of level.

So we tore them out today and tomorrow we'll snap a line from the high point and shim up the bottoms...but this makes the counter 3/4" higher than it oughta be. I forsee a nightmare trying to scribe the bottoms, or we'd do that. As it is, I think the height of the toe-kick is really gonna look bad...but not as bad as a noticeable difference between the uppers and base. I can see why you cabinet dudes get good money...I'll never do it again. :mad:

FWIW, this is new construction...so there's no excuse, far as I'm concerned.

KC

[Chris Padilla]

KC, I feel for you...I've had a few installs like that although yours sound pretty bad!

However, I've read that, in general, there is a shortage of good-skilled tradesman and that new-construction can be quite bad because some companies won't pay for good people and prefer to pay lower-skilled people. Sometimes the older houses were built better but really, it depends all on the builder.

I bet the foundation wasn't poured correctly and shoddy lumber was used or lumber dried poorly. I recently picked up a few 10' 2x4s of green doug. fir from the borg and they were dead straight when I got 'em. I had them in the garage for maybe 3 days and they turned into pretzels before my eyes. I took them back and got more 8 footers and just made do. Those stayed nice and straight.

[Gary Max]

Reminds me of why I quit build cabinets for people.
If you get real mad at them -------leave the room.
Wish you lots of luck.

[Steve Clardy]

I hear you KC. I deal with this almost monthly. I make and do my own cab installs. In the last 3-4 years, I can remember ONE that everything went A-OK.:D Straight walls and level floors are a thing of the past.
Had one in a modular home that was pitiful. 12' run of base cabs were off an 1 1/2" lengthwise. Width wise was an 1/2".
I had the end cab jacked up an 1 1/2", and had to make a run back home and make some 2" scribe and put on the toekick. I wasn't really proud of that, but the customer didn't care one way or another. Job didn't pay enough to remove bases and cut the toe kicks and legs down.
The uppers were horrible also. Had to use 2" crown to cover the gaps at the ceiling, and the crown looked kinda snaky.
When I first went over and bid the job, old cabs were still in place, and walls looked kinda bad, but didn't realize how BAD the floors and walls were till the new installation.:rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

I truly understand the problem, KC...from doing our kitchen last summer. Floor sloping in two directions and the ceiling going a different way. It was "fun"...

The one saving grace was that I build the "toe kicks" as separate units so they could be installed first and leveled up easily. Then the cabs were set on top to complete the job. If I did this again, I'd use adjustable feet (Euro-style) and then apply scribed toe kicks after the fact.

[John Miliunas]

I truly and honestly feel your pain, Kirk! This *entire* house does not contain two vertical OR horizontal construction lines, which are on the same plane! :mad: The house was kind of added on to, piece-meal. Sadly, neither the original, nor the "newer" parts are of any decent quality! :( If there's a "bright side" to this, it would be that, most *anything* we do to this house will be an improvement! :cool:

[Todd Burch]

KC - Welcome to my world!

[David Klug]

Boy John, do I know what you mean by piece meal. We bought a fixer upper and as near as I can tell there are 3 additions to it. The trusses were any where from 23" to 25" on center. What fun it was installing sheetrock. DK

[Steve Cox]

Last install I did was a window seat with a cabinet and bookcase on each side. Had to fit the floor, both walls and the ceiling. Of course the floor sloped from left to right and out from the wall, the ceiling was in a different direction, neither wall was plumb and the window that was "centered" on the wall was off to the left by 6 5/8". Scribed the walls to fit, used molding on the ceiling and applied seperate scribed toe kicks after the bases were installed and level. Site layout using story sticks becomes very important in these cases.

[Dino Makropoulos]

I'm in the middle of my first and last cabinet job...and I'm pulling my hair out. Kitchen floor is near 3/4" higher at one end than the other, over a 16' or so run...and there's hills and valleys in it, too. The window over the sink is out of plumb just enough to show...and there's a wall cabinet 1-1/2" away on both sides. If I level the sink base, it really shows bad. The run of wall cabinets measures 'right' from the ceiling, but you can see a bit of slope in relation to the floor. It took me ALL DAY to get the main run of cabinets put together and shimmed to the wall so they were straight across the front and reasonably level front to back. I thought we could count on some 'cheat' with the tile, but it's too much...and the oven cabinet is in a bad spot where it's just too much out of level.

So we tore them out today and tomorrow we'll snap a line from the high point and shim up the bottoms...but this makes the counter 3/4" higher than it oughta be. I forsee a nightmare trying to scribe the bottoms, or we'd do that. As it is, I think the height of the toe-kick is really gonna look bad...but not as bad as a noticeable difference between the uppers and base. I can see why you cabinet dudes get good money...I'll never do it again. :mad:

FWIW, this is new construction...so there's no excuse, far as I'm concerned.

KC
After few thousand kitchens I can tell you few basic steps that you have to follow. There is no way out of this.
A. Find the highest point of the floor.
B.Measure 34 1/2 (if you're using the standard 34 1/2 base cabinets)
C. Draw your level line and install the bases level.to the line.
D. Now you can install your counter top (or you can do it later.)
E. from the top of the base cabinets measure 18" and draw another level line.
F.Screw 1x3" to the level line to help you support the top cabinets .
By installing the boxes level the doors and drawers going to work and look right. All the other problems they can be dealt with moldings.and plenty tapered cuts.on fillers,panels. and toe kicks.
Now, if you want to level the floor or the ceiling in the future you can do it without removing the cabinets.
There is not short cuts on cabinet installation.
Good luck.
YCF Dino

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I thought about making the bases separately, but I think in this case, that would have been almost as much bother as what I'm going through now. The plumbers on this house were no prize either...several spots where vent/drain pipe couplings have caused the sheetrock to REALLY bow out at floor level...probably 1/2" behind the kitchen sink, and nearly 3/4" on one of the bathroom vanities. I'm not a plumber, but you won't see that kind of crappy work on the house I built. Nearly every outlet cutout needed some 'help' from the painters because the standard size cover plates didn't cover the holes.

The painters are good, and the trim carpenter did a fine job with what he had to work with. I shoulda let him build the cabinets!