4th HD DVR in 2 weeks

[Joe Pelonio]

I'd like to know if anyone has had a similar problem or has a suggestion for something that Comcast is missing.

My daughter bought a Vizio 26" HDTV 1080p so I went to the Comcast store to swap her old DVR for the HD version. Two hours in line and I got it and installed it with the HDMI cable provided.

Everything worked fine until the first time she turned off the TV, when turning it back on the message "no signal" was displayed and the DVR box was frozen, neither the remote nor the buttons on it would do anything. The box had to be unplugged to reset it.

The first technician that came decided that the new box had not been "flashed" before being given out and replaced it with one on his truck, an older, larger one. After he left, and she turned off the TV later, same problem as before.

Repeat the above with two more service calls and DVRs, all different models.

I did an experiment yesterday, after they mentioned on the phone the possibility of lost signal power. I connected her box direct to the wall outlet coming into the house, with no splitters. Same problem. I also switched from HDMI to the cable with the red, white, and yellow plugs, again it froze.


They are coming out again today. Meanwhile I am looking into Direct TV.

[Myk Rian]

Makes me wonder if the TV is doing it.
Maybe sending a pulse to the DVR.

[Joe Pelonio]

Makes me wonder if the TV is doing it.
Maybe sending a pulse to the DVR.
Myk,

I called them too. Comcast says that the DVR and TV talk to each other when using the HDMI cable, but Vizio says that particular model does not
send anything back to the DVR. I don't know who to believe, but when I used the composite video which would not communicate back, I still had the same problem.

[Zach England]

Perhaps you are a walking source of EMI?

[Joe Pelonio]

Perhaps you are a walking source of EMI?
Watch it or I'll freeze your computer!:D

[Randal Stevenson]

Stupid question, does she have the HD/digital cable, or is she still set up for the older cable?

[Joe Pelonio]

Yes, around here the cable system is HD capable when it comes into the house, and just requires the right box or DVR. That does give me an idea, I might have them look at the green box outside that we and the neighbor are connected to.

[Joe Pelonio]

They came back.

He turned on the TV and found it frozen with the message "dul" on the box.
That told him that it was the box, so he went to the trick to grab another (5th one). He didn't have one with the HDMI connection so he used a big fat Component video cable. I can see a definite improvement in the picture quality, for some reason. He tried turning the TV off and back on several times and so far it's working. He agreed to call this afternoon to check on
it before he quits for the day.

Oh, and he admitted that the technicians sometimes forget to mark a bad box so they get recycled back onto the shelves to send out to someone else.

[Pat Germain]

I'm thinking the satellite TV option is your best bet. But I'd personally recommend Dish Network for multiple reasons. If your daughter tells either satellite provider that she's dumping cable, they will likely give her free installation and a free HD DVR.

I have friends with Comcast DVRs. I don't know about your daughter's box, but my friends' boxes really aren't DVRs at all. They just interface to a server back at Comcast. And boy are they s-l-o-w! The capacity is also so limited it's laughable. And the so-called "High Defnition" digital cable doesn't really look that great.

FYI, you won't get a true HD picture from the component cables. You must have a digital signal for true HD and the component cables aren't digital. (Although, as I said, the Comcast HD picture isn't very good anyway.)

[Joe Pelonio]

I have looked into the option of satellite, in case this is not fixed in the next week or two and it would save us some money, but we have a lot of tall trees facing SE so it may be a problem. The only channels we wouldn't get that we enjoy now are CBUT (from Canada) and the PBS out of Tacoma, both of which are my source for Red Green (and other good programming).

[Joe Pelonio]

FYI, you won't get a true HD picture from the component cables. You must have a digital signal for true HD and the component cables aren't digital. (Although, as I said, the Comcast HD picture isn't very good anyway.)
When I asked the tech he said there was no difference, but as I said the picture looks better than it did with the HDMI and much better than with composite. I did some research and found this article which seems to make it even more confusing. I plan on visiting a friend with satellite before deciding whether to switch, so far this latest box is working.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html

[Tim Morton]

FYI, you won't get a true HD picture from the component cables. You must have a digital signal for true HD and the component cables aren't digital. (Although, as I said, the Comcast HD picture isn't very good anyway.)

HD stands for High Def....not High Dig....Component video cables are very capable of transmitting a High DEF picture. In fact i would say it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between a picture viewed thru an HDMI cable and one that is viewed thru component video cables. I say nearly....because you can tell that there is a difference, but i dare you to pick the one that is better.

HDMI is still kind of a quirky interface.....it works perfect on my Samsung DLP thru all my boxes....but yet it is finicky on my other oleva TV that just has a HD-DVR....and yet on my neighbors systems his DLP will not work with HDMI, but his wife's Oleva which is almost identical to my wife's will work perfect with HDMI.

I would not get too concerned about HDMI vs Component....especially on a 26" set...i would however make sure you have set the cable box up properly for HD picture....if i remember comcast boxes come set up to run only 480i out of the box...you need to go into settings and add the rest manually.

[Rod Torgeson]

Joe ....I know this doesn't help your current situation, but I have Dish Network. On October 21, 2009 I had them come out and install a new dish for HD along with a HD receiver. When the tech left everything worked fine. ON 11-21-09 the tech came out and installed a new receiver as the 1st one would not work anymore. When the tech left everything worked fine. On 12-17-09 the tech came out to install a new receiver as the 2nd one would not work. IT seems as though my problem might be connected to a power outage. I don't know that for sure. The model I have is a 612. One of the techs told me that a Model 625(non HD) or a Model 722(HD) was a little more reliable. If I have another problem I will request one of those models. So far since 12-17-09 everything is working fine. Just a heads up if you decide to go with a satellite connection. Hope you get your problem resolved.

Rod<---in Appleton, WA

[Pat Germain]

HD stands for High Def....not High Dig....Component video cables are very capable of transmitting a High DEF picture. In fact i would say it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between a picture viewed thru an HDMI cable and one that is viewed thru component video cables. I say nearly....because you can tell that there is a difference, but i dare you to pick the one that is better.

OK, I see what you're saying. I was thinking the component cables were connected to a non-HD output. I wasn't aware the box had a HD Component output. Since the cables split up the color signals, I can see how they would provide a very good picture.

Of course, the signal you get from Comcast has to be good in the first place. ;)

When considering satellite providers, I give the edge to Dish Network primarily because they offer dual receivers and DirecTV does not. I've had both and I also like the Dish interface much better. As I've said before, if you want a NFL of NHL package, you do have to go with DirecTV. I think Dish does have a NBA package.

[Tim Morton]

OK, I see what you're saying. I was thinking the component cables were connected to a non-HD output. I wasn't aware the box had a HD Component output. Since the cables split up the color signals, I can see how they would provide a very good picture.



component is component...there is no specific "hd" or "non-hd" component output.

Maybe you are confusing component (red/green and blue cables) with composite(single yellow cable)? And lets not forget s-video ( the 4-pin connnector)...composite and s-video wil not carry HD resolution....you can use them both with an HD tv...but you will not get to 720p (HD).

[Colin Giersberg]

We had Charter Cable and decided we wanted to get HD channels, so we swapped out the old cable box for a Hi Def version, and after hooking it up, we never could get it to boot up. Swapped it out for another unit, but with DVR capability, and it wouldn't boot up.
Contacted their service dept, and scheduled a repair several days away. While waiting for this, we checked out Direct TV, got hooked up, and all is well. Then I cancelled the Charter service, the repair appointment, and brought their equipment back.
Direct TV gave us a brand new dish (oval shape), a new cable box for the bedroom, and a new combo cable box/DVR unit for the family room. We have more channels, even if some of them are only the introductory period of three months, and the signal is clearer. With Charter, some channels had snow, or would pixelate (that is, the image would go from smooth to several large groups of pixels, the image would freeze up, then the image would smooth back out. The only time I have seen this with Direct is during a rain shower.
Charter wanted approx. $75.00 for the upgrades that we wanted, with fewer channels than Direct, and using old equipment. Direct will cost us approx. $55.00, with more channels, and all new equipment.
The dish is not round, but oval shape. Supposedly that gives better signal retention during rain, but I do not know this for sure. As mentioned above, we have had one instance of signal loss, but that was relatively a short time.
My only gripe with Direct right now is with the channel guide on the remote. At first, scrolling through the channel guide to see what is on was quick. Now, it takes two or three seconds for it to go to the next channel. Plus, I have problems with just punching in the actual channel number and pressing Select to get it to go to that channel. I can get one number entered, but any more than that and it will not take the extra number Gaaah. I do plan on contacting the guy that installed our dish, and see what we have to do.

Regards, Colin

[Pat Germain]

component is component...there is no specific "hd" or "non-hd" component output.

Maybe you are confusing component (red/green and blue cables) with composite(single yellow cable)? And lets not forget s-video ( the 4-pin connnector)...composite and s-video wil not carry HD resolution....you can use them both with an HD tv...but you will not get to 720p (HD).

A TV signal is either HD or is isn't. I know component has three cables: Red, Green and Blue. Audio is separate. Before, HD, this was the best quality connection to a home television. After component it was S-Video, then RCA (composite), then coax.

No matter what the connection, if a video source isn't HD, the TV won't display HD; even with up-converting. The only way I know of to get a true HD signal to a TV is with a HDMI cable. It's a digital interface. Since component cables are analog, I don't see how they would carry a HD signal. I was thinking if the cable box was putting out an HD signal, the component cables might carry something close.

[Jason Roehl]

HD doesn't HAVE to be digital:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_cables

The component cables themselves only carry an analog signal, but the output device may be doing a DTA conversion. What the input device (TV) does with it depends on what it is. Rear projection TVs may just use the analog HD component signal after running it through some filters and such, or LCDs and plasmas would convert the analog back to digital, since their displays are natively digital.

I've had the same dual-tuner, HD DVR from Comcast (originally from Insight) for a little over 3 years now. I won't say it's been flawless, but I've never required a service call, only a call or two to after-hours tech support (they're better than the day shift). In that time, I have almost never shut the box off, only when I leave for more than a day or two, so it's been off maybe 3 weeks total, tops. When it's on, since it is a dual-tuner device, it is caching content on two channels--15-20 min on HD channels and 45 or so on standard. Usually both tuners are on HD channels. Honestly, I'm amazed the thing hasn't crapped out yet, as that is over 3 years of near constant hard drive writing.

It sounds to me like the OP doesn't have the TV and the box talking to each other properly, or one of the two is bad. It's generally best to set the output device to output the native resolution of the TV, if possible, but sometimes the TV will have a better scaling algorithm and yield a better picture if the cable box is set to output whatever signal it is getting from the cable company, and let the TV up- or down-convert.

[Pat Germain]

You're right, Jason: "Component video is capable of carrying signals such as 480i (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/480i), 480p (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/480p), 576i (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/576i), 576p (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/576p), 720p (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/720p), 1080i (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/1080i) and 1080p (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/wiki/1080p)[1] (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/#cite_note-0), and new high definition TVs support the use of component video up to their native resolution." I didn't know that. Thanks.

[Tim Morton]

A TV signal is either HD or is isn't. I know component has three cables: Red, Green and Blue. Audio is separate. Before, HD, this was the best quality connection to a home television. After component it was S-Video, then RCA (composite), then coax.

No matter what the connection, if a video source isn't HD, the TV won't display HD; even with up-converting. The only way I know of to get a true HD signal to a TV is with a HDMI cable. It's a digital interface. Since component cables are analog, I don't see how they would carry a HD signal. I was thinking if the cable box was putting out an HD signal, the component cables might carry something close.

Sorry, but you are confused...to view an HD signal (720p or higher) you do NOT need an hdmi connection. Component video cables will transmit up to 1080p with no loss of signal. And i will repeat...there is very little if any viewable video signal advantage to even choosing HDMI over component.

[Phil Thien]

IF MY NEW TV HAD BEEN CONNECTED TO FOUR DIFFERENT BRANDS/MODELS OF DVR boxes and all DVR boxes had died a similar death, I'd WASTE NO TIME in replacing that TV.

If an identical replacement, running on HDMI, resulted in the same problems, I'd switch to a different brand/model.

I certainly would NOT accept running on a different input (non-HDMI) as the solution.

Someone already pointed out the likely culprit is the TV, and I agree. So, sorry to shout, but I'd get that TV exchanged pronto.

And BTW, just because the TV isn't supposed to be sending anything back to the DVR via the HDMI cable, doesn't mean it isn't. :eek:

[Pat Germain]

Sorry, but you are confused...to view an HD signal (720p or higher) you do NOT need an hdmi connection. Component video cables will transmit up to 1080p with no loss of signal. And i will repeat...there is very little if any viewable video signal advantage to even choosing HDMI over component.

No need to apologize, Tim. Jason provided a link which explained component cables can indeed carry an HD signal. I think my confusion came from not being aware that a cable or satellite box had HD component outputs.

It would seem the only disadvantage to using component cables would be running six cables (three for picture, two for audio) instead of just the one HDMI cable.

If the new TV in question here can get an HDMI signal from a DVD player, I'm thinking that would suggest the problem is the cable box and not the TV. Also, perhaps a Google search for a similar problem would shed light on the subjet. Every time I have a problem with my computer or an appliance, I find thousands of other people had the same problem and are writing about it in a forum or blog.

[Russ Filtz]

component is component...there is no specific "hd" or "non-hd" component output..

I think he might be referring to the fact that some equipment specifically will not pass an HD signal over component. At least in the early days of HD this was the case. Some of it due to the lack HDCP copy protection on these component connections.

Also don't forget you still need a digital audio connection if using component video! This can be toslink (fiber optic) or plain old RCA jack wire with no real distinction between the two (someone actually did an experiment with digital audio over a coat hanger with no losses!)

Side note, I've had two HD-DVRs running on FIOS from Verizon with no problems for 4 years. OK actually one, but it was a HD failure where the unit was replaced. Every now and then you get a freeze and have to unplug and reboot, but seldom happens. They do nail you on these though, rental charges on the box PLUS HD programming fees. What a scam!

[D-Alan Grogg]

Another Comcast customer here. We have 2 HD/Dual-tuner cable boxes connected to 2 Sony Bravia HDTV's via HDMI cables in our home (for a number of years, now). We have never had any issue like described in the OP. Also, we regularly watch HD content in full 1080i. It is a little misleading for some to suggest that Comcast doesn't broadcast true HD content. We've had our worst issues with Comcast internet services, but only minor issues with Comcast cable broadcast services. I'm not a big Comcast supporter, but some comments in this thread are not entirely accurate.

Comcast tech support may be different in different regions. When you call the 800 number for support, you are talking to someone in a call center that may be located outside the US. Sounds to me like your tech support is not doing an acceptable job. You need to try to contact someone else in the support chain than you have been. We had to do this to correct our internet issues. It took persistence on our part. We finally were able to speak directly with an engineer in our local office. Only then did we get our internet issues resolved. It's time for the tech's to give you a known good box and to verify the signal into and out of the box are good. If it's not one of those it must be the TV.

[Pat Germain]

It is a little misleading for some to suggest that Comcast doesn't broadcast true HD content.

The Comcast digital broadcast may be HD, but in Colorado Springs, it's a lousy HD. Obviously, I can't speak for other areas because I haven't seen the picture. But compared the HD pictures I have on Dish Network, and what I had on DirecTV, Comcast plain sucks.

I also have Comcast broadband and it works great.

[D-Alan Grogg]

I'm curious what is "lousy HD"?

[Pat Germain]

I'm curious what is "lousy HD"?

Although High Definition television is digital, and one would assume an HD picture is an HD picture, I have found this not to be the case. In the case of my local Comcast digital HD cable, the picture just doesn't look very good. The colors aren't as good and the resolution isn't as sharp as it should be. And it's not the TV as the same goes for multiple TVs. The video source just isn't high quality. I know some cable companies don't invest what they should in distribution infrastructure. Cutting corners can produce weak signals and noise.

My friend who switched from satellite TV to cable hoping to save money in a bundle reported the same thing. His picture was better with satellite TV.

I'm not suggesting all digital HD cable is lousy. I'm suggesting just because it's digital and HD, don't expect it to be a top quality picture. And here in Colorado Springs, it isn't.

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Turns out that the most recent box works both on HDMI and component, but since my daughter is happy with the better picture from the component cable that is what she's using. I cannot explain why the picture is better than with the HDMI but it doesn't matter, she's using the composite cable for her video games and DVR. I have been told that nothing is broadcast yet at 1080i, and to take advantage of that capability on the TV requires a Blu-ray.

[Jason Roehl]

Joe--nothing is yet broadcast at 1080p (though I think at least one of the satellite providers has started). 1080i IS commonly used as an HD format by various cable providers, though it needs to go the way of the dodo. 1080i is 1080 lines drawn on the screen 540 lines at a time (540 odds in one sub frame, then the 540 evens in the next, with all 1080 lines renewing 30 times per second). 1080p is a minimum of 60 frames per second, with all 1080 lines getting redrawn every 1/60th of a second. Now there are units with 120Hz and 240Hz frame rates, which, for now, are done (I'm SWAGging here) through digital interpolation--the processor in the TV fills in the intermediate frames by comparing the adjacent frames and creating the appropriate number of intermediates (1 for 120Hz and 3 for 240Hz).

One note for your daughter, though, is that the TV may need to be adjusted for either the HDMI or the component. Mine saves the settings for each. Your daughter's may have come out of the box with component picture settings that are close to appropriate for the room, whereas the HDMI picture settings may be way off.

[Neal Clayton]

interlacing saves bandwidth, and HD takes alot.

i doubt we'll ever see it completely go away.