From the Black Goo......it emerged....

[John Keeton]

I posted a thread yesterday, but for those that may not have seen it, I have been thinking about doing some inlay on a bowl. I didn't want to start with a decent blank. So, I turned a little walnut dish/bowl out of a scrap, and cut a recess in the rim. Mixed up some System Three, added the black paste, and mixed in some brass filings.

This was the "Black Goo" that followed.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=136653&thumb=1&d=1262217716 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=136653&d=1262217716)
I was concerned about it setting up, but this morning it was workable. So, from the Black Goo, this is what emerged -

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I am glad I did a test piece. Some lessons learned - Jeff Nicol was correct, need to mix the brass filings FIRST with Part A, then the pigment, then Part B. I ended up with some small voids from poking the brass down in the epoxy after it was poured.
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Second, the pigment will saturate the wood (at least the walnut) more than expected. Need to leave a little more thickness to deal with that. It will not sand out!!

Overall, I think it is a neat application, and I will try it on the project that I originally had considered, but may go with brown on that one.
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[Jon Finch]

Awesome John! Where did you get (make?) the brass filings?

[Steve Schlumpf]

That turned out really nice John! Very pleasing shape to your bowl! Air pockets are always a problem when using epoxy - at least for me.

Guess everyone has their own method of mixing epoxy - I usually mix the 2 parts together first and when it just starts to set up - throw in some bronze powder and apply to the turning.

Looks like you got the general hang of it! Looking forward to seeing the next version!

[Terry Murphy]

Great project.
I tried some Ca glue and gold stuff from micheals, and was not happy. I might try epoxy, but it all seems to have a color to it. Was the Systems 3 clear?

Terry

[David Christopher]

John, that bowl turned out great...what finish did you use ?

[Sid Matheny]

Looks like an experiment that went from a mess to a great bowl. Well done!


Sid

[Robert Snowden]

Very nice work John. Could you use thin ca to seal the grain before you expoxy? I use it to seal my wood pen's.

[John Keeton]

Thanks for the comments, guys. Let me see if I can address some of the questions.

Terry, the System Three is clear. The hardener has a slight bit of tint but not noticeable. I added their black pigment. I understand that other pigments will work, including lamp black (couldn't find any at Michaels), pigment from a paint store (used to tint paint), among others. Transtint dyes work as well, according to some stuff I read.

Robert, sealing the grain is a thought, but one must further level the epoxy on the lathe, so sealing the grain may not help. This stuff goes on so messy (I am sure there is a better way!) that I think the best approach is to leave yourself some wood so you can finish the piece to the leveled epoxy.

David, the finish is my carry over from flat work - BLO and shellac, and in this case, a quick shot of lacquer from a can, and buffed with 0000 steel wool to knock off the shine.

Jon, the brass filings came from a fellow that makes keys for a major landlord here in town. The hardware store I frequent keeps their key machine too clean, and didn't have any!!:D He brought me a little plastic container full - probably enough to do a dozen applications like this. It doesn't take but two or three pinches of filings.

This little piece was an experiment, and I really wasn't sure it would survive the epoxy trick. But, in the end it finished out OK, so it gets a medallion in the bottom!;) That means it goes on the shelf, rather than the wood pile!

[gary Zimmel]

Job well done John..

The bowl is a keeper.
I am very interested to see what the next one is going to look like.

[Matt Ranum]

I gotta admit it sure looks a lot nicer than I expected it to.;):D

[David E Keller]

That looks great. I think it turned out well. Looking forward to your next batch of turnings

[David Gilbert]

John,

I am very impressed! Your bowl looks great. I just got a lathe for Christmas and have started turning (destroying) some of my wood. It sounds like you and I are starting to fall down the slippery slopes of both turning and hand tools.

I have a couple of questions:

Do you have a branding iron that you use to mark the bottom of your bowls? It looks very professional.

This is bowl #4. Is this your fourth finished object? Do you intend to number all your projects sequentially?

Have a Happy New Year!

Cheers,
David

[Tony De Masi]

Great job John. Not sure why you were so hesistant to get into the turning world, or mabye it was YOU who outwitted the rest of us to send you some freebies:D

Keep pushing forward John. You are doing wonderfully.

Tony

[John Keeton]

Tony, you can't deflect the blame for this curse that easily! You know it was the taunting from you and the "Gang" that has sucked me into this bottomless pit of a vortex!!!:D:D;) Forgiveness will be a long time coming!!:D

Matt, it looks better than I thought it would, too!! I didn't have much hope for it last nite!:o

David, the "mark" is actually a maple medallion that has been laser cut and engraved - compliments of Gary Zimmel. Gary had a bunch of them done by George Perzel, and had a few done with my name on them. They work really well in flat work. They sit snuggly in a 1.5" Forstner hole, and are recessed for the penny. On the dish that I did, I scooped out for the recess, and cleaned up the edge with a parting tool.

I only have about 6-7 left, and I will have some more done, but will change the wording a little to provide for some space to write on. I do intend to number the bowls - not sure why, but maybe it will give me a frame of reference in years to come. Since I am at the beginning of this journey, it seems simple enough to do.

[Mike Minto]

john, that's a really great bowl! cool shape, but the way the inlay matches up with the color of the wood - i like that one alot.

[Brian Effinger]

John, that looks great! Definitely a successful experiment. The form looks good too.

Yup, you must have been a turner in another life. :)

[John Keeton]

Thanks, Mike and Brian!

Brian, this was trial run for a similar application that I am considering for a beautiful curly maple blank that some architect up in NY graciously gave me!!;) But, my thoughts right now are that brown epoxy would look better than black. Your thoughts?

[Brian Effinger]

:D Yeah, you got to watch out for those architects. A sneaky bunch. :p

I agree that the brown would be more complimentary then the black. A light to a medium brown - not too dark. The brass filings would look good in there too.

[charlie knighton]

John,

please keep showing us your learning pieces, while you learn we learn also

get someone to tell you about the golden triangle :D

[Bernie Weishapl]

John that bowl is impressive. Really well done. John you never cease to amaze me with your talent. For not turning very long you sure have gotten the hang of it.

[ROY DICK]

Ogee very nice John.
From an ugly duckling to a beautiful swan.

Roy

[Baxter Smith]

Came out great!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Quoting Will Geer "You certainly have come a long way Pilgrim!"

[John Keeton]

John,

Quoting Will Geer "You certainly have come a long way Pilgrim!"Jeremiah Johnson! My favorite movie of all time!! They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

Thanks Ken, and everyone else for looking and commenting. This was really not that great of a project, but it did give me some experience with the epoxy, and I hope to put that to use with a bit more skill.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

I have had great success filling cracks on "wind shake" wood in bowls too. I mix crushed instant coffee crystals with epoxy and fill the cracks. Let it set up over night and finish turning the next day. Works like a charm!

Again...You are doing extremely well in your new arena of bowl turning!

[Baxter Smith]

Looks Great! Everytime I turn around you are trying something new!

[Jeff Nicol]

John, I think if you sealed the recess with some shellac or even lacquer first, it might stop the color from migrating into the wood. Some of the best stuff I have found for coloring epoxy is oil based artist paints. It mixes well and make vivid colors. Using a powderd media for the color works very well, like some of the pigments for powder coating. You can get little containers of yellow,white,black and red at Harbor Frieght and that will give you a very solid color.

If you want brass filings, get a piece of brass rod and mount in in the drill chuck and turn it slow and use a coarse file to grind the rod down, put a piece of paper or little cardboard box to catch the filings and you are ready to go!

Here is a HF I did a couple years ago when I was figuring this stuff out. It is a piece of box elder that was completly rotted out in the center so I filled it up with epoxy and an Ash heart. I did it for an art show that was called " From the Heart of Nature" that is why I put in the heart. I kept it for myself, just because it is the first one of this type I did.

Have fun!

Jeff

[John Keeton]

Jeff, that is a really interesting way of dealing with the rotted area!! And, you are right on the vivid colors - trip to Harbor Freight is on the list!!

I didn't have so much trouble with "migration" or bleeding, it was the spillage or overrun that was difficult to deal with. I think the main thing is to figure out an application method that deposits a controlled amount of epoxy. I just poured it in the recess, and after the initial "slump" went in, the rest of it was a little easier to control. Still need to work on that idea.

Another good idea on the brass filings, though I kind of like the varying sizes that came from the key machine. I suspect if one were to file them like you are saying, they would be more consistent in size. That may also produce a nice look.

[Dave Halter]

John that's a very nice bowl, I really like the shape. I've used Winton Oil Colour from Michaels mixed with epoxy successfully, although I was not filling a large gap. I used it to fill in the numbers and shift pattern on a gear shift knob I made for someone.

Dave

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Hi John, I've never been much for filling the wood with other material, but I've also experimented with it, depending what outcome you are after there's other ways and materials to use.
I don't find anything wrong with what you did here, even though you might not be happy with it, and that is exactly why we do different things.
To get the best metal look, you do need to get the most metal in there, so you realize that epoxy needs the two parts and the metal, I was never satisfied with the outcome of material mixed into epoxy, I had much better results with filling with material first (like brass) and then have CA glue flood into that, to fill in between the particles and glue them to each other and the wood, just my way of doing it.

[Christopher Zona]

John,

For more information about the technique that you are using, you may want to consider getting in touch with Marilyn Campbell. She gave a really informative demonstration at one of our club meetings last year about her technique which involves the use of West System epoxy. She covered many of the questions raised in this thread and how she has solved these problems.

She very informative and forth coming with her techniques. If you ever have the chance to one of her demonstrations, it is definitely with the time.

http://www.marilyncampbell.ca/