Guidelines of This Forum

[Cody Colston]

This particular forum has become my favorite place at SMC. I love looking at other people's work and I also appreciate the opportunity to display my own and get feedback (critique) on it.

I don't ask for critique every time I post a picture but sort of assumed that was part of the purpose here...to get honest opinions that would help us improve. Evidently, that may not be exactly correct.

I just wonder if we need some clear-cut guidelines for this forum...don't critique a piece unless it's requested by the OP, etc.

On some pieces that I feel are of a lesser standard than others here, I'll usually just reply about what I like concerning the piece. There's nearly always something to commend the maker on and encouragement is always a good thing. Other times, I'll just refrain from posting if the piece is "substandard" (judged by the overall quality seen here) or if I just don't care for the particular style portrayed.

I'm certainly not as skilled as the majority of members who post in this forum but I also have thick skin. I can accept and even desire honest critique, even if it is not flattering. Others may be more sensitive because, whatever the quality, every piece we show here has part of us in it.

Personally, I think we need some ground rules so that persons offering an honest, though unflattering, opinion will not get flamed for doing so.

Meanwhile, I'll go back in my corner and try to behave. ;)

[Glenn Clabo]

I just copied Ken's sticky from the turners forum. It should get us started for this forum. Any comments?

[Joe Leigh]

...don't critique a piece unless it's requested by the OP, etc.



I agree with this sentiment, BUT I have never read a posting here that embarrassed or denigrated another poster's abilities. I never reply other than to offer praise. Then again the vast majority of members here have skills that far exceed my own...

[Ron Bott]

Why not just set up a gallery where the submitter can post photos and project details. All others can see the photo, no need to comment. The vast majority of the follow-up posts offer no real value at all, other than "great job" and a pat on the back. Is this really that important to someone? Just my opinion.

[Brian Kent]

Why not just set up a gallery where the submitter can post photos and project details. All others can see the photo, no need to comment. The vast majority of the follow-up posts offer no real value at all, other than "great job" and a pat on the back. Is this really that important to someone? Just my opinion.

Yes, it is.

[glenn bradley]

Why not just set up a gallery where the submitter can post photos and project details. All others can see the photo, no need to comment. The vast majority of the follow-up posts offer no real value at all, other than "great job" and a pat on the back. Is this really that important to someone? Just my opinion.


Yes, it is.

+1 on "Yes it is".

The tone of SMC has gone through some changes and will continue to do so. We have lost members temporarily or permanently when things slide toward the feel and content of those "other" forums until they can be brought back to center.

I post some things to receive feedback that will help me improve, get another opinion from others whom I respect, help adjust my viewpoint and so forth. Some things I post to help someone not have to go through the learning curve I just went through (I think I have received more education from these types of posts, by others, than anything).

So +1, again on "Yes it is" important that we don't just troll the forum to see what others are doing. Speak up, encourage, comment and feed the forum knowledge base; don't just feed off of it.

Ooops, almost fell off my soapbox again ;-)

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, I appreciate the 'attaboys' because I don't get them at home. The people in my physical world don't appreciate some of the things that people here do. So, I like it.

As for criticism, I always welcome it.

It makes the same person's praise seem more genuine, when the critiques and compliments are both even handed.

Also, this craft has a million subtleties and levels for improvement. When I'm at a level, it's nice to know what to strive for next time. That comes through criticism.

[Glenn Clabo]

Well...yes as a matter of fact. We try real hard to be friendly here at SMC and friends usually tells friends when they do a good job on something.

[Lee Schierer]

I just copied Ken's sticky from the turners forum. It should get us started for this forum. Any comments?

Looks like the "rules" I already follow.

I think the purpose of posting finished work is to brag a bit and hopefully to inspire others a bit. If my skill doesn't match that of some other work, I'm not offended or embarrassed. Still it is gratifying when others appreciate my work and say so. Be lavish with praise and frugal with criticism.

[Bart Standefer]

From a newbie's perspective, that has been lurking for a few months, when I do get around to posting a piece of work, I hope to receive lots of criticism. Criticism is not always negative, but generally positive, in a sense that I obviously didn't think of every technique that would have made the piece better or more appealing to the eye. That is the only way I would learn.

I would like to see more pictures from start to finish on a piece. Other fabrication websites I am a member of, you get to see more pictures and talk taking you thru the entire build. I have seen this on very few threads.

[David Gendron]

So far so good for me, I allways had CONSTRUCTIVE feed back(critics) on with some compliments and so on. If you don't have anything good to say about a piece or anything constructive to suggest, maybe move on an other thread... I think we are here to learn from each others and help each others! Maybe the piece is not in your style or the design doesn't stike you but you can still appresiat good craftman ship, proportions, wood, grain, combination choices!
just my $0.02

[Cody Colston]

I just copied Ken's sticky from the turners forum. It should get us started for this forum. Any comments?

Thanks, Glenn. That was a very quick response.

[Larry Fox]

For me, I think the standard rules of civility should apply and I also feel that people know when they are being constructive and whey they are not. I sometimes feel that there is a hesitation in providing feedback that could be, in any way, interpreted as negagive so the result is that people just move on and don't comment at all. Problem is that these are also people who I WANT to comment. While I certainly like and value any positive comments people are generous enough to give me when I post something, there is really not much to be learned there. What I also value a lot are the questions and the constructively critical posts as that allows me to think of things that might not have occured to me and help with my growth.

[Todd Hoppe]

Yes, it is.

I agree 100%.

[Mac Cambra]

Having received negative criticism from a guy that was later identified as as an antagonizer, I can say emphatically that it hurts. I can also say that it has made me less willing to share my projects.

We all can improve our skills, no matter what level they are at but to me a mentor really should be someone that has established themselves worthy of that role.

There are guys here that really do extraordinary work, we all know who they are. A critique from one of them would be valuable. Conversely as was the case with me, someone with no posting history, no proven skills and just posting to start a flame session embarrassed me. Fortunately Ken came to my aid and removed the thread.

Needless to say people put their hearts and a lot of love in these projects, typically for loved ones and we all must keep that in mind.

Thanks

[Danny Hamsley]

While I have not posted any pics of my projects on here, I have made posts complimenting others on their work. I think that it is important to encourage others who love woodworking and to find something good in what people are doing. In that spirit, I will post some pics. However, I am sure that my skill level is not up to many on here, so I am not interested in a competition because there is always someone better somewhere in about anything that you do. It is the spirit of the community that is important to me.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Hmm... this topic seems to come up every so often on this and other forums, that I've seen.
And it's always interesting to see peoples perspectives.
FWIW, here my 2 cents.
If I'm going to post a project, I better expect to recieve comments back on it, positive, negative, or neutral. And if I don't expect that, or can't deal with it, then I best not post my project.

People need to realize that getting comments back on your work IS THE VERY POINT of posting the project. Why else would you post it? So now we're going to try to filter what type of comments are posted back? First of all, thats rediculous, because I'm as entitled to say that I don't like your work, as you are to post it. And second of all, these threads are already monitored and controlled by moderators, who do a great job by the way, and it's not my job to say who's comment is nice or not.

That being said, there comes into play common courtesy. Some people have it, some people don't. If there are specific posts that are clearly rude, or offensive, then there are forum rules to deal with that. Report it to a moderator, and certainly don't get into a pissing contest with someone. You also have to consider that typed text doesn't carry the emotion or tone of voice that people sometimes intend. But to say, for example, "only post positive responses" is completely unhelpful and defeats the purpose of the post in the first place, which should be, to receive HONEST feedback, positive or negative, on your work. If you can't deal with both types of feedback, DON"T POST.

I have one more point to make, nothing drives me more nuts when I see responses to a project posted that SEEM unsincere, but positive just for the sake of saying something nice. I think you know what I'm talking about. You know, the low or midiocre quality project that really is nothing to praise, that recieves praise just for the sake of being "nice". Why not just give the project the criticism it deserves? Maybe the poster will actually learn something from that and not post their crap any more.

Or maybe it's just me....

Ryan

[John Keeton]

You know, the low or midiocre quality project that really is nothing to praise, that recieves praise just for the sake of being "nice". Why not just give the project the criticism it deserves? Maybe the poster will actually learn something from that and not post their crap any more.

Or maybe it's just me....

RyanRyan, I understand your post, and I certainly respect your feelings. But, from someone who has been doing woodworking of some sort for a lifetime, I truly appreciate anyone that puts forth the effort of producing something from wood - anything from wood.

Everyone starts at the bottom. For some, that "bottom" may be pretty crude. For others, it may be an exemplary product. But, we all start somewhere.

I doubt anyone intentionally posts a project that may be considered by a viewer as "crap." I venture to guess anyone that posts a pic is proud of their accomplishment. To me, their efforts need to be praised, and if requested, some constructive comments toward improvement.

But, I would be very hesitant to be critical of a piece, that in my subjective view, I felt to be unacceptable. I recall vividly my early efforts at woodworking, and they were "crap." Had someone informed me of that, they may have been my last efforts. It would be a shame to stifle the efforts of beginners by such comments.

I try very hard to be encouraging. If the poster asks for further comment, I offer whatever I may be qualified to offer - hopefully in a supportive manner.

We are all developing in this arena, and we are all at different levels. But, the objective is the same - to maximize our skills, and produce works of increasing difficulty and quality.

To quote a portion of your tagline - "Excellence, I can reach for; perfection is God's business. "

We are all reaching for excellence - some just have farther to reach. I think it preferable that we help each other achieve that excellence. In the end, we will all benefit.

[Richard Wolf]

You can't be honest with some people. They don't want to hear it. As evident with the, now gone, gumball machine thread. The amazing part is, it wasn't the OP that seemed offended, it was other people that didn't want to face the reality of the situation.

Richard

[Gary Breckenridge]

When I post a project I willingly accept a variety of responses. My favorite responses are hero worship, cash money and another Nobel Prize for Woodworking. I will also accept figured 18" wide cherry boards. If somebody feels my projects don't quite measure up I'll willingly accept constructive suggestions or criticism. I just could never figure out why somebody that doesn't like my work would want to kick my dog.:cool:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

In theory, everyone posting should have the strength to accept constructive criticism and use it to improve their skills.

In reality everyone doesn't have that strenghth to handle that criticism.


In theory everyone should have the communication skills that would transmit in person or via the keyboard that their constructive criticism is friendly and intended only to help improve the other person's project or skills.

In reality, I can't see your face or hear your intonation as you communicate via the keyboard, so I can't tell if you are serious or teasing or being facetious with your comments.

In fact, there are a certain number of weirdos out there that gain a whole lot of courage because they are setting safely behind a keyboard and they will say things in a mean way that they wouldn't dare to say in a face-to-face meeting.

[Cody Colston]

In fact, there are a certain number of weirdos out there that gain a whole lot of courage because they are setting safely behind a keyboard and they will say things in a mean way that they wouldn't dare to say in a face-to-face meeting.

Noooooo! You don't mean it? :D

Actually, the requirement to use real names and the discouragement of free e-mail providers probably cuts way down on the number of weirdos here.

Just for grins, I registered recently at a popular free e-mail provider. I used an alias for my username and a fictitious name on my "profile"...no problem at all. That has to be a troll's dream.